The question of whether Organic Pastures Dairy Co. outsources dairy products has been lurking on this blog like an old sore that won’t heal. Each time it looks as if it’s resolved, it really isn’t, and it reappears.
It’s been a pet issue of Amanda Rose, Concerned Person, and Mary McGonigle-Martin.
Now, it seems as if Bob Hayles has helped us focus in on the critical issue of yes-no—has Organic Pastures been outsourcing milk or cream for use in production of dairy products?
Frankly, I haven’t been sure what to make of this matter, which is why I haven’t said much. I do explore it some in my book, The Raw Milk Revolution, and explain Amanda Rose’s theory that outsourced product may have been the missing link in helping explain how Organic Pastures milk could have become contaminated so that six children became ill.
My difficulty with the issue has stemmed partly from my business background, where outsourcing happens routinely in all kinds of businesses, including food businesses. So long as outsourced products meet with the selling organization’s quality standards, then it’s usually not seen as necessary to announce it.
But in observing the debate, and the apparent closure via Mark McAfee’s admission following my previous post that he has misstated about outsourcing, and that outsourcing has occurred during 2009, I’ve come to appreciate its significance, as applies to raw milk. Yes, butter and cheese may be different from milk and cream, but the differences aren’t easy for even avid raw milk drinkers to understand, and apparently open to some debate. I’ve come to conclude that the issue is much more important than I wanted to allow, for at least three reasons, all relating in one way or another to the matter of safety:
- Raw milk is positioned by many supporters as a raw food vulnerable to contamination, but made safer because it is obtained directly from known farmers. “Know your farmer” is the mantra of many raw milk consumers. So is the notion that there are two supplies of raw milk–the conventional factory farm supply and the raw dairy supply. The implication of both these ideas is that personal knowledge and relationship help ensure that the milk is produced by people who care, and thus use the highest safety standards.
- Raw milk is under attack by regulators, and thus under close scrutiny. It’s almost as if its producers must live up to a higher standard. Scott Trautman, the Wisconsin dairy farmer, points up this dilemma in my previous post by arguing that raw milk producers have to self police, to prove to the regulators that they are serious about the regulators’ safety concerns.
- Finally, and this may be most important: there is a perception that at least some raw milk producers are not fully committed to safety. I think the perception has developed because some raw milk advocates seem to immediately deny every allegation of contamination and illness. And the argument is sometimes suggested that grass-fed cows can’t produce contaminated milk because of competitive exclusion. It shouldn’t be surprising. I think it’s part of the bunker mentality. When you’re under attack all the time, you see enemies everywhere, even when friends come to help.
But here’s the irony: advocates of raw milk do believe very seriously in the highest safety standards for raw dairy production. They just don’t do a good job of communicating this belief. I know because I just received my copy of a booklet produced by the Weston A. Price Foundation and the Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund, “Raw Milk Production Handbook” (available via the Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund web site). For some reason, this booklet is only available the old-fashioned way, in print and by snail mail. But a quick look through it makes clear a strong commitment to safety, down to the smallest details. Here are a couple quotes:
“The floor of the milking area should be an impermeable material, usually concrete. Metal is also fine, but rather costly, and it weakens over time. Wood absorbs pathogens and water and therefore is not an appropriate flooring.”
“Water for washingthemilking equipment must be 165 degrees F leaving the water heater and no less than 145 degrees F leaving the item you are washing. When purchasing a water heater, make sure it can reach these temperatures—most cannot.”
There’s lots more on storage and handling, milk testing and sample taking, and about bovine diseases. WAPF and FTCLDF need to get this material available prominently online.
I appreciate that Mark McAfee has been willing to discuss this issue ongoing, and to his credit, acknowledge his misstatements. But it’s not clear he appreciates the true import of what’s happened. He states following my previous post, “When arguing this point over and over and over….my ‘classes’ of raw milk sometimes get crossed up….so shoot me,” and thereby indicates only grudging acceptance. I know he and other raw dairy farmers understand the enormity of their responsibility—they do need to communicate that in their interactions on all levels.
One new question lots of raw milk consumers are going to be asking their farmers is this: “Do you outsource?”
Two regulars on here have had epiphanies, or "AHA!" moments, or inspirations, or whatever you want to call them. I had such a moment reading that chapter. I realized that it wasn’t until I got caught up in figuring out how the cellular gate concept related to HUS (hemolytic uremic syndrome), allegedly caused by either e-coli 0157:H7 or people with that bug being given antibiotics, that I really began to understand the cellular theory.
Mark, that is just hard for people to grasp. Until you read the in-depth descriptions, saying that raw milk relieves, or even cures allergies just doesn’t even make sense to most people. It took me a few years, and I’ve even had some chemistry, anatomy and physiology and microchemistry. We are brainwashed to believe germ theory. It is as ingrained as Mithraism is into the Judeo-Christian culture; the idea of justified war – a belief that is ingrained to such a degree as we forgot humanity once existed and continues to exist in many cultures without it. As some have stated in comments on this blog, germ theory has become a religion. I get that now.
How do you enter into discussion with people who DON’T get it? If someone can’t perceive something, they aren’t going to be able to see your point.
A coworker who has done a lot of reading told me that cellular theory was the basis of osteopathic medicine; whereas germ theory is the basis of conventional medicine. I’ve never heard this. The thought is worth more exploration. If this is true, doctors of osteopathic medicine have planted a firm foot in the medical communty, and could be a strong ally in persuing a more cellular theory based approach to medicine; and maybe even to food regulation.
It would make sense, if the cell doesn’t function correctly and it is unable to correct itself, then various conditions may occur. "Disease is built by unhealthy conditions." If you are basically healthy, then your body at the cellular level can fight off the abnormalities. http://www.whale.to/v/germ.htm
I believe that modern medicine and alternative health can function together. Both sides should be required to be opened and honest. Look how long it took MDs to believe in the benefits and tell patients to eat yogurt when they get an antibiotic… Treating the whole patient is required for optimal care. In our health care system this isn’t done.
Non-Californians may also not appreciate that OPDC products are aggressively marketed as dairy products from pasture-based cows.
In the 2007 cream recall case, for instance, OPDC bought from Clover Stornetta via a broker. When the Listeria was found, OPDC blamed Clover. Clovers reputation may have suffered damage from the Listeria finding which is totally unfair considering it produces product for pasteurization.
At the time, Mark claimed that the cream fit his production standards but California climate is a challenging one for pasture operations. The Clover farms do not tend to have green pasture in August and September when OPDC bought the cream. They could not have hand-picked the farm of production because, again, Clover didn’t even know they were selling it to a raw processor.
It was the same situation in the 2006 colostrum case: Vander Eyk heifers could not have been grazing on grass in the days they produced the product that ended up in the outbreak. There is no green grass on the Vander Eyk pastures in August and there had not been green grass there for four or five months. In fact, the heifers are moved out of the pasture in spring and into a confinement situation. It happens that way every year since I have moved back here five years ago. I pass all of the Vander Eyk pasture land on my way to meetings.
I don’t know about the Stueve’s situation and grass or the rest of the Organic Valley producers who may be relevant here. I do know that this milk too is purchased from a broker so, again, the producer very likely does not know it is going into a raw product. Perhaps someone could ask Organic Valley for clarification.
In any case, I want to be clear that the outsourcing in this case has been done in such a way that the vendor cannot verify the claims on his own label or in his more general marketing. That is my core problem with this situation.
I was disappointed in David’s treatment of the outsourcing issue in the book because he quoted Mark’s comments about the grazing Vander Eyk heifers, thereby perpetuating misinformation among consumers. Vander Eyk heifers don’t graze in August. Of course it’s also the case that heifers don’t actually give milk.
Amanda
My own example is emblematic. I milk our cow on a permeable floor; I do not use 165 degree water to clean our vessels; I do not employ routine laboratory tests; I feed no corn silage (or any fermented feed). So according to the WAPF booklet standards I am doing a number of things wrong. By commercial, industrial, and medical standards I am a flagrant nut. Yet I am very contented with my processes (and not incidentally, my history of cow and human health is exemplary).
To me, the highest possible safety standard exists only within the context of the whole environment, which includes elements as diverse as soil health, physical fitness, forgiveness, contentment, clean water, financial stability, family and community stability, honest environmental observation, a work ethic… the list almost defies listing.
So discussing milk handling techniques rings hollow. I do not expect to find safety in a protocol or a process (although they have their place) but look instead to balance myself with the world. That is, in essence, my own pursuit of happiness. How can a regulation help with that?
Amen and Amen.
People who own acreage suitable for having cows are so fortunate. And they have so many other not-so-obvious options for quality living ones that non-farmers only dream of or arent even in touch with.
There are two ways to look at the above picture.Some people see an old woman,some see a young girl.Both images are there.Everyone is free to see whichever one they want.The same is true about the germ theory and cellular theory.Both ways of looking at health or disease are there.It is our choice which one we want to believe.What we believe affects everything we see.If we believe in the germ theory of disease,we believe that:
GERM THEORY (PASTEUR)
1. Disease arises from micro-organisms
outside the body.
2. Microorganisms are generally to be guarded against.
3. The function of microorganisms is constant.
4. The shapes and colours of microorganisms are constant
5. Every disease is associated with a particular microorganism
6. Microorganisms are primary causal agents.
7. Disease can "strike" anybody.
8. To prevent disease we have to "build defences".
If we believe cellular theory:
CELLULAR THEORY (BECHAMP).
1. Disease arises from micro-organisms within the cells of the body.
2.These intracellular microorganisms normally function to build and assist in the metabolic processes of the body.
3.The function of these organisms changes to assist in the catabolic (disintegration) processes of the host organism when that organism dies or is injured, which may be chemical as well as mechanical.
4.Microrganisms change their shapes and colours to reflect the medium
5. Every disease is associated with a particular condition.
6. Microorganisms become "pathogenic" as the health of the host organism deteriorates. Hence, the condition of the host organism is the primary causal agent.
7. Disease is built by unhealthy conditions.
8. To prevent disease we have to create health
I believe that through my thoughts I create the physical world that I live in.
Do I want to create a world in which I am fearful of the natural world I live in?(Fear can be a cause of disease.) A world which I have little power to control.(feeling powerless can cause disease)Do I want to trust(I can’t) my health to doctors and scientists as a small child would do?
Or do I want to see that I am part of the natural world,learn the natural laws that lead to health and take control of my own health as an adult would?
I am not saying that I would never be ill if I follow natural laws.In order to maintain health it is necessary to eliminate toxins.Sometimes the microbes that are busy detoxifying our bodies cannot keep up and we experience a healing crisis in which a lot of toxins are thrown out at once.There are natural cleansing cycles for all of our systems.Some of the cycles are daily, some weekly,monthly,and even every 18 years or so.We don’t want to suppress these healing crisis.They are part of the work we need to do to maintain health.
Have you ever gone through a period of months when you were too busy to have time to be sick,then a holiday comes along and you "catch a cold"? Did you really "catch " that cold or did your body simply finally find the time to catch up on some necessary housecleaning when you had the energy to do that work?
It is obvious that more education is needed here…. I can see that for sure.
In CA there are five basic classes of milk and milk utilization.
Class 1 Subject to less than 10 coliforms….Fluid Raw Milk
Class 2 Subject to less than 10 coliforms….Raw Cream
Class 3 Can not even make these products like Ice cream ( no raw products allowed)
Class 4a All butters including Raw Butter
Class 4b All Cheeses raw ( 60 days aged ) and pastuerized
Class 4 a and 4b are not subject to the raw milk regulations as required in the Class 1-3.
Milk used for Class 4a and 4b is not subject to pathogen testing or bacteria standards or TB testing. These are manufacturing products and not fluid usage products. Products in Class 4a and 4b are cheese and butter. Neither of these products in CA are subject to pathogen testing and or coliform or bacteria count standards or TB testing etc…
OPDC does not outsource for fluid milk class 1-3 product production. On rare occasion in the past OPDC has purchased fluid milk to be used in Class 4a and 4b products. These products were purchased through a broker,….because purchasing milk requires a bond and brokers hold a purchasing bond and OPDC does not. All fluid milk that has ever been purchased ( after the Clover Raw cream incident ) has come directly from known sources and dairy direct ( not commingled with another dairies milk…a single known source and dairy direct). Most of this milk was from Stueves Dairy and was grass fed and organic. Some additional milk was purchased from other organic grass fed dairies and always purchased and taken directly from the dairy tank and not from some unknown place or source.
Again….none of this milk was ever made into our raw cream or fluid milk products. This so- called outsourced or purchased milk went into Class 4a or Class 4b products.
This is not a secret. Class 4a and 4b products are not subject to AB1735 or other raw milk standards ( pathogens or coliform testing ) or regulations. All the cheese is produced as 60 day aged cheese and is sold across statelines. The FDA considers Class 4b cheese to be self pastuerized but still raw.
Ask yourself this question…..at OPDC we run out of milk often…we do not have enough milk to make cheese. There are plenty of organic dairies with plenty of super quality grass fed raw milk that they are begging us to buy….and the consumers are begging us for truly raw organic grass fed cheese and not fake raw cheese that some many of the organic producers make and sell. ( organic valley heats their raw cheeses to just below pastuerized temps and label it as raw and so does Alta Dena ).
What do we do? We feed people!!!
We made the decision to buy that good quality raw milk from our friends ( instead of seeing it dumped down the drain…some was being dumped down the drain or being sold as conventional due to oversupply ) in the organic dairy system and we made great quality "truly raw organic cheese" and sell it under our brand. When asked we tell everyone exactly this same story,.,….there is nothing to hide.
This has happened so few times…and it has not happened since March of 2009.
There is absolutely nothing immoral or wrong with this….it is not fluid raw milk….it is not a safety issue. It seems that some on this blog is stuck in outsourcing first gear and can not shift and go forward. Why the grinding of gears???
Some times I get the impression that some you just do not get this issue. We do not outsource raw milk with the safety issues that are related to it….our practice of occasional purchase of good organic raw milk to make cheese or butter is not a safety issue. TB testing is not required for Class 4 products.
I think this puts this issue 100% to rest. I have said my last rights at its funeral….I hope it is now dead and buried. If you do not agree with what we have done…you are entitled to feel any way you want….
We feed people with real food. We also do our best to help other organic dairymen when we can. God knows they have needed help. They can not and do not make cheese or butter and our help has been a god sent to them and our consumers as well.
I really hope this helps you all to understand this none issue.
Mark
Bob Hayles
http://www.juicymaters.com
Regarding the message from you on your outsourcing practices: Bob and Amanda, I apologize for my misstatement. Amanda has it right and I made a mistake when I stated my facts.
Thanks so much for clearing up all the confusion Mark, and Im sure Bob and Amanda appreciate your apology.
However, dont you think the real person you owe an apology to is Jill Richardson from la vida locavore? After all, the only thing she did was accurately report that you have continued to outsource for non-fluid dairy products (emphasis on non-fluid).
What she got was to be called a sneaky snake and whose reporting was not only inaccurate but libelous. You also threatened legal action if she didnt retract the statements and post an apology.
I think an honorable man would direct a sincere and humble apology to Ms. Richardson.
Flowers would probably help.
As for what you just postedSTOP! Youve been selling outsourced butter and cheese with the OPDC label. Consumers assume these products come from your cows. There is nothing on the labels of these products that inform people differently. This represents a complete lack of integrity in your business practices. Know your farmer…..laughable.
cp
Good idea and a good piece of feedback….On our next round of label adjustments I will consider adding a very small statement on our raw cheese and butter that says something like:
…on occasion the milk that made this product may have been sourced from a trusted outside organic dairymen.I think that is a fair request and a fair statement.
Remember that it takes 100 pounds of raw milk to make 4 pounds of butter….that is a one heck of a lot of waste.
As far a Jill and I are concerned…we have exchanged emails and she has apologized for stating that ODPC outsources raw milk to be bottled at OPDC. She agreed that she will post a retraction of that mistaken information as soon as possible. I thanked her for this and I also apologized for my harsh treatment of her. She is a struggling food writer and she needs all the help she can get. I shared with her some uncoming breaking news and she will be the first to get the scoop. She really had no idea what kind of tough climate she was facing when she entered the "raw milk hornets nest". Thats some of you guys…
Flowers are a great idea….If I could only get her addresss.
I spent 2.5 hours last night on Wilshire Blvd in LA at a doctors office presenting the Share the Raw Milk Secret presentation to a room of naturopathic doctors and guests. They are completely turned on by the positive effects that raw milk gives their patients.
Quite a different and welcoming climate….I swear it feels like some body turned on the Air Conditioning and set it on freezer mode…..for all of you that love raw milk and the ass busting effort it takes to keep it cold and fresh in 350 stores in CA…it does not seem that there is much concern or appreciation.
I am going to ignore the negative crap and focus on the positive….the kids with no asthma or IBS or ear infections after raw milk. Some of you seem to care less about good positive news and insist on reburying and refuneralling old news other irrelavant junk.
I got a call from a farmer in Missouri and he facing arrest for selling raw milk….he can not meet the $100,000 permit requirements of the automatic bottle – capper systems required to be in the raw milk market. He meets people at changing locations and at changing times to just stay out of handcuffs.
To those that say…I do not get it….you are far from accurate…I get it. I really get it.
Farmers feed people and will go to the ends of the earth to safely feed and serve our consumers. I am connected to my consumer and I will not ever abandon them.
Thank you for some great ideas….I will use them.
Mark
If you want to sell a product to the public at large, don’t test the process – test the food, as Organic Pastures does with their milk. Very little mainstream food is actually tested. If as a consumer you’re trusting a brand-name label for quality, you might consider looking at the USDA recall site. You’ll find that some fancy brands like "Nature’s Promise" and "Trader Joe’s" come from the same tainted lots that institutional foods come from. "Caveat emptor".
here is a link to more information on alternatives to germ theory.
http://www.laleva.org/eng/2009/05/virus_myths_exposed_–the_true_causes_of_pandemics.html
"Why are Viruses so Beneficial?
Contrary to common opinion, viruses don’t kill people. If someone is sick and also has a virus, he or she is not sick because of the virus. A sickness must first exist before a virus can show up. Viruses are designed to induce healing, not illness. The symptoms such a healing effort produces (in this case, flu symptoms such as fever, headache, dizziness, fatigue, etc.), do not constitute the disease. Increasing body temperature (fever), for example, is one of the body’s best methods to increase production of immune cells to deal with toxins and then dispose of bacteria, viruses, and fungi when they are no longer needed. Influenza is the final stage of healing an underlying disease; the disease consists of a buildup of toxins, heavy metals, acidic waste products, dead cell material, and other noxious substances that could otherwise lead to a life-threatening condition.
An infection is merely used to break down harmful substances, like metals, drugs, chemicals, pesticides, food additives, trans fatty acids from restaurant foods or ready made foods, artificial sweeteners, etc. We don’t need to destroy viruses; they are on our side. Normally, some of these toxic substances can be broken down by the body, but most of them require bacteria to dispose of them. Some other things, however, require solvents to dissolve and remove them. That’s when the body makes viruses or allows them to be made and spread through the body via the blood and lymph.
Viruses are inert proteins that the body produces in order to attack and dissolve such noxious substances. Viruses are not living organisms, like bacteria. Unlike bacteria, they cannot reproduce themselves because they have no digestive system or reproductive system. The human body makes more of these solvents when it needs to dissolve these harmful substances, and it stops making them when the danger of cellular suffocation has subsided. They act effectively, just like solvents in paint cleaners.
The bottom line is that viruses can only become active and increase in number in a toxic body that cannot be cleaned up by bacteria or the body itself. To repeat, the human body only creates more viruses when there is a need for it to mop up drug chemicals, food preservatives, toxic metals such as mercury, pesticides, medications, and animal parts that are present in every vaccine. To protect itself, the body may store an enormous number of different viruses, but they remain inactive until a need arises for them to become active and spread to do their precious work. The immune system produces antibodies to these viruses to remove and dispose of most of them once the detoxification has occurred. Vaccinating a person to invoke antibody production interferes with the body’s most basic healing mechanisms, and I consider it to be one of medicine’s most dangerous weapons – truly a weapon of mass destruction."
The important message here is that bacteria help to remove toxins from our cells and bodies.When they cannot keep up the body" makes or allows to be made " viruses that act as sovents to aid in the elimination of toxins.
"On average about 5 to 10 deaths are reported annually after babies get vaccines,"
If 5-10 deaths occur in Amsterdam, how many in the US? Why is this allowed? Sacrifice a few for the greater numbers? Is that the mind set? If it was their baby that died, would they still feel the same? One death and/or injury is too many.
Miguel, I guess I am detoxing? have classic flu symptoms..no respiratory SX (yet). Hope it leaves fast.
If OPDC is only rarely bringing in outside product, then it strikes my as ridiculous not only to squander brand equity over it but still more ridiculous and short-sighted to keep Georgians from trucking raw milk in from a neighboring state. The whole interstate commerce ban fight is going to die fast behind this outsourcing business. If OPDC really is only outsourcing every 8-12 months as we are led to believe here, IMO Mark shouldn’t consider making a label change, he should stop the nonsense entirely.
Then there’s the whole "know your farmer" push, but I’m sure I can’t add to Bob’s analysis.
Amanda
An alternative view of health with a 5000 year history of treatment.I believe the germ theory will be abandoned long before it’s 5000th birthday.My previous post about viruses is from an author http://www.ener-chi.com/ who is a practitioner of ayurvedic medicine.
Fear of bacteria, fear of being wrong, fear of culture collapse. When we finally decide NOT to let fear be the ruling factor, then we will stretch and we will never be the same again. Can we do that? Can we trust what we see?
There’s been an 8-year campaign under the Bush admin to control by fear. The Wall street/bank collapse made us fear for our survival. You know how to survive, or you will certainly take a crash course if you have to – you will do what you need to do. There might be regional food supplies that will provide – if we choose to nurture them. Society may be corrupt, but I still believe they will rally when they have to. America turns swiftly.
Follow the healing course. Follow your intuition. This blog is full of leaders that don’t quite trust themselves. Me included.
-Blair