The West Coast people got a little bit of a head start in discussing the recall of Organic Pastures Dairy Co.s products (following my previous post). A recall, and quarantine, was ordered by the California Department of Food and Agriculture, alleging that campylobacter was found in a sample of OPDC cream, and that at least ten people became ill as a result earlier this year.
Mark McAfee, the owner of OPDC, stated in an email, “The recall press release is written in a very misleading way. The detection of campylobacter in one sample of cream was not connected to any illnesses. Any readers of this recall would be led to assume that there were ten illnesses associated with OPDC products. This is a completely misleading conclusion. Those loosely associated cases were four months ago…No finger prints matching anything at OPDC.”
Its impossible to tell from the press release if any kind of genetic link was made between the campylobacter found at OPDC and the ten people the CDFA says were sickened by OPDC milk.
My feeling, and the feeling of many other raw milk advocates, is that OPDC should be treated the same as any business serving the public whose food is found to be contaminated. If OPDC has a chronic contamination problem, or has become too large to reliably produce safe milk, then it needs to do what is required to correct the problem. Part of whats unclear at this point is whether OPDC is getting the same treatment.
The CDFA press release states, From January through April 30, 2012, the California Department of Public Health (CDPH) reports that at least ten people with campylobacter infection were identified throughout California and reported consuming Organic Pastures raw milk prior to illness onset.
Possibly the state hadnt yet had a chance to make the comparison of the campylobacter found in the OPDC cream with the samples found in the ten people who got sick, and was forcing the recall out of an abundance of caution? Maybe there wasnt a match? Maybe there was a match in some of the individuals and not in others?
Whatever the situation, the state should have been clear. Given the number of raw milk customers in California, and the emotion around the issue of raw milk availability, it is as incumbent on the state to take care as it is on OPDC to produce a safe product. The stakes are too high for all concerned.
As Ron Klein suggests in his comment following my previous post, another part of the challenge here is a willingness by food rights advocates to stand up to the reality that some dairy producers may not be doing what is required to produce a safe product. There is a lot at stake in the fundamental questions surrounding food rights. Unless this movement addresses in a systematic and responsible manner how to provide a clean and safe product, educate consumers and helps those affected by regulatory over reach or contaminated products–there is no hope.
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There have been some surprisingly fair appraisals of the conflict over raw milk of late. Americas Test Kitchen has about a twenty-minute debate about raw milk (including comments from me), which starts about 14 min 30 sec into the segment. And Fox News NY has about an eight-minute segment on the crackdown on raw milk. Both segments are quite lengthy by major radio and television outlet standards. Theres also an excellent segment featuring one of the Minnesota moms being targeted by the states agriculture department (as described in my previous two posts), on the Josh Trolley show.
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For those following state legislative initiatives on the raw milk front, the Real Raw Milk Facts site, despite its anti-raw-milk tone, has done an excellent job of collecting up-to-date information on what’s happening, including links to proposed legislation in various states.
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I’m told the Food Rights Workshop in Minneapolis has a few spaces for last-minute attendees at the afternoon session tomorrow (Sunday); the dinner has been sold out.
It’s interesting that these illnesses reach back into the period where Claravale was fingered by some customers. First, what a vastly different response by the two dairies. Second, maybe it wasn’t Claravale product after all that made those customers sick…
Is Mark throwing California herd shares under the bus once again?
McAfee said at the time he cooperated with the testing at his dairy but was convinced his milk did not make the children sick. He suspects that the children may have consumed other unbranded raw milk products.
http://www.fresnobee.com/2012/05/10/v-textonly/2833085/state-recalls-products-from-fresno.html
Or is it a case of too much sh*t and not a big enough shovel?
Would that be the way a big business is treated, or a small one? Judging by some of his comments about OPDC, about the state, about RAWMI, about small real milk dairies (according to the Fresno Bee link above, he’s at it again), and about food relocalization in general, McAfee wants this double standard to continue, and merely wants to corporatize raw milk within that framework.
Therefore, for example, the government should “work with” OPDC every time it screws up (if that’s what’s happening, as opposed to it being state persecution on flimsy evidence), while a small producer with allegations against him should be shut down.
But so far all his appeasement rhetoric doesn’t seem to be helping him.
Whatever the situation, the state should have been clear. Given the number of raw milk customers in California, and the emotion around the issue of raw milk availability, it is as incumbent on the state to take care as it is on OPDC to produce a safe product. The stakes are too high for all concerned.
I agree, however I think most of us can agree that state officials have gone out of their way to manipulate the public, that they lack integrity and that their actions are often not motivated for food safety or human health reasons.
I guess the sixty-four dollar question is, why is there a lack of clarity?
Is it because they are merely grasping at straws or are they deliberately manipulating people in real life situations in order to nurture fear, anger and division?
Ken
Karen, you are absolutely correct. There is an absence of accountability that leads inevitably to arrogance. Who wants to trust public officials who have little or no respect for people’s private food choices?
I think there is a lack of clarity when there is a lack of evidence. The CDFA didn’t make a genetic linkage between the campylobacter found in the Organic Pastures cream and the campylobacter found in people who got sick because there was no linkage.
There is also something to your suggestion that CDFA is “deliberately manipulating people in real life situations in order to nurture fear, anger and division…” As one example, the circumstances of the campylobacter problems at Organic Pastures are strikingly similar to those of Claravale, announced by CDFA last March. In its press release then, the CDFA said, ” No illnesses have been definitively attributed to the (Claravale) products at this time. However, the California Department of Public Health (CDPH) is currently conducting an epidemiological investigation of reported clusters of campylobacter illness where consumption of raw milk products may have occurred.”
http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/egov/press_releases/Press_Release.asp?PRnum=12-008
In the current situation involving Organic Pastures, the CDFA said in its press release, “From January through April 30, 2012, the California Department of Public Health (CDPH) reports that at least 10 people with campylobacter infection were identified throughout California and reported consuming Organic Pastures raw milk prior to illness onset.”
http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/egov/press_releases/Press_Release.asp?PRnum=12-018
“Deliberately manipulating”? You be the judge.
As I see it, the state went to OPDC on May 1 fishing for campy in the products and they found it. In Nov/Dec, they went fishing for e. coli and found more than one strain. I don’t know that there is evidence tying OPDC to this illness cluster or if there is evidence that the CDFA is manipulating the public, but I look at the data and see strong evidence for my “get a goat” philosophy.
Amanda
I was suggesting that CDFA clarify the situation. Say its lab hasn’t yet completed the analysis to determine if there’s a match. Or say it hasn’t been able to obtain the strain info on patients (though I would think much of that would be available, since the ten cases it alludes to are presumably confirmed via lab tests). If it did try to make a match, and wasn’t successful, report that, and say that it went ahead with the recall based on epidemiological conclusions. It has done none of these things–said only that OPDC caused the ten cases of campylobacter– leading conspiratorial minds to wander… Sorry, “trust us” may have been okay at one time, but times have changed, and for the worse.
Sue the pricks for abuse of process
I need to clarify an inaccurate statement I made the other day about 14 samples of Raw Cream that were taken for testing by Department of Public Health. These 14 samples did not get tested at the same time that CDFA sent in their tests. I learned at a hearing on Friday that CDPH did submit those 14 samples of raw cream to their lab…it was the lab that was backed up and could not process the samples. So it was not a CDPH intentional delay of testing. It was a lab back up that caused the delay.
Also….interesting to note that preliminary test results just came back from CDPH today. 6 of those cream samples tested positive for campy and the other 8 were negative. Very interesting information.
During the my requested hearing with CDFA on Friday, one of the doctors with DPH reported some of the details and facts that surround this recall and also the events of the last 4 months.
The State of CA has placed all raw milk under intensive enhanced surveilance. The doctor said that their large numbers of Campylobacter cases that they just do not address. There are so many of them, but they do watch the ones that are linked by consumer interviews to raw milk…( we are so very special!! ).
If a consumer reports drinking raw milk in CA, that information goes directly into the PULSENET database and this information is reviewed routinely to see what comes up. Statistically speaking about 500-1000 cases of campyloacter are experienced everyday in CA ( CDC says that 2-4 million cases occur each year in the US…I divided the total by the population to get the CA number ). CA says that they have 16 cases per day that they process according to their database. That means they ignore some huge amount everyday…but not those that are reported from raw milk!!!
There has been no gentic links found between any reported cases of campylobacter. There have been no reported positive raw milk samples from those that drank raw milk. All cases involved raw milk and not raw cream.
Now for the juicy part. CDPH reported at the hearing on Friday that 31 cases of Campylobacter were recieved and processed by CDPH from consumers that reported to their doctors or other investigators that had drank raw milk between January 1st and April 30th 2012. 18 reported drinking Claravale, 10 reported drinking OPDC and 3 reported drinking some other source of raw milk ( and would not name the source ).
None reported drinking raw cream. None of the raw milks producted during this period every tested positive for campylobacter. It has been raw cream.
Can any of you science buffs tell us what the heck is going on here. The bacteria counts in the raw cream sample taken by CDFA and DPH had a coliform of less than 1 and an SPC of less than 2500 ( the lowest count that is reported ). This was extremely clean raw cream.
What I am I seeing…..fascinating. Claravale had never had a campylobacter and OPDC had never had a campylobacter ever found until the passage of Ab 1735 and the less than 10 coliform standard. Now with Claravale and OPDC scrabbling to be super duper clean….we start seeing campy.
Just an observation. We know so little….but we test so much. campy is not a coliform. perhaps coliforms inhibit campy….god knows. I know that coliforms produce colicins which inhibite some forms of pathogens. We are testing using the BARDOT technology at UC Merced, this technology that maps all bacteria including campy. Maybe we will have a “test and hold” program soon with anything positive going to cheese.
With all of this focus and perspiration…there is bound to be some inspiration to end this exaspiration.
Our products should be back on shelves next week….if all goes as we think it will. But perhaps our milk is too clean and I am all wrong.
Creation of a vacuum in nature begs something take up that space.
Are we all that stupid? or is it just plain arrogance to think that mankinds regulatory definition of clean also….means SAFE. Perhaps the CDFA definition of SAFE that was passed secretly into law under Ab 1735 with “the less than 10 coliform standard”….does not stand up the test of time and the final measure against the test of the truth of mother nature. The positive test of raw creams was perfect under the code. It was the classic AB 1735 clean and safe raw dairy product.
Seems like we are getting better and smarter every day….or perhaps not. Perhaps we are just getting more conscious about the fact that we do not know much at all.
One thing for sure….campylobacter is no enemy of life. It is part of it. We just need to become immune and move on. Life in a Bubble is a Life in Trouble.
Mark
P.S. Your product is not “clean” if it has campy in it. If your customers want the campy, that’s a different matter, but your marketing materials don’t seem focused to that radical crowd.
Good luck with your attempt to try and prevent this organism from getting into your food!
Notice that the following article suggests the spraying of lactic acid on carcasses as a control measure.
http://www.essaycoursework.com/modelanswer/sciences/essays/campylobacter-jejuni.php
Watkins (2003) proposes different infection levels with reports of as many as 1,000 in 100,000 in developed countries with even higher rates in developing countries.
The question posed in the title was: How does such a sensitive organism [as C. jejuni] cause so much disease?
A summary of relevant information presented thus far provides a foundation upon which a response to the question can be formulated.
C. jejuni is truly a sensitive organism. A review of the literature revealed that the bacterias ability to exist outside of a narrow range of temperature, oxygen, and other conditions is poor. The optimal conditions for growth of C. jejuni include temperatures between 37 and 42 degrees Centigrade and less than five percent oxygen. Ironically, it is just these features that render C. jejuni such a serious problem. With a temperature of approximately 37 degrees Centigrade and a low level of oxygen, the human gastrointestinal system provides ideal conditions for C. jejuni to thrive.
So, in response to the question posed, the sensitive C. jejuni bacteria cause so much disease in humans because humans serve as ideal hosts.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC286345/
Despite the health impact of these enteropathogenic bacteria, their epidemiology remains poorly understood, and the full epidemiological pathways leading to infection in humans have not yet been elucidated.
Furthermore, due to their ability to fly freely and to cover long distances during annual movements, wild-living birds are suspected of functioning as effective dispersers of disease via the aforementioned fecal contamination of pastures and surface waters throughout the world.
Seagulls in particular, due to their scavenging feeding habits, are one of the most documented carriers of Campylobacter and Salmonella.
Its not uncommon to see seagulls sharing the pasture with cattle at a ratio of seagulls to cattle as high as if not higher then 10:1 especially after a rain.
You folks probably wouldnt have a clue the number of times Ive been shit on by a seagull doing fieldwork. At times their numbers can be so great that they become discombobulated while flying and some end up gong through the haybine.
Ken Conrad
You can’t have it both ways — that raw milk is uniquely safe and, oh except when it’s not and in that case, you’re a big scaredy-cat for worrying about campylobacter because it’s all over the place.
Mark developed a market here in California among people feeding his product line to their babies. How many of them would not wash seagull crap off their baby and just let that baby wallow in it? For those in the “wash crap off baby” camp, how many of them really know that Mark’s milk might actually have a pathogen in it and that they really should instead be networking for human donor milk? Not many because, well, all the cool people say that raw milk is uniquely safe.
Actually, the “uniquely safe” argument may be soooo 2010 and sooo Fallon and Beals. Now it’s “you’re more likely to get hit by a bus….” The fact is that human milk for babies here in California is the equivalent of a Britax car seat in a Volvo. Mark is encouraging his moms to send their babies hang-gliding instead so that he can fuel his private plane.
That is not cool.
< http://www.freewebs.com/bovinity/evidenceofexperts.htm >
starting about halfway down the page
My Ph.D. is in the social scientists and I’ve never pretended to be a raw milk expert. Beals is out of his area on this issue too, at least on the competitive exclusion issue I referenced.
Amanda
Marks warrior words are hurting him. I wonder if he has ever once thought about the consequences of his actions. He is not a victim. He is creating the reaction. It is no wonder that CDFA and/or public health employees come to the farm with a bullet proof vest.
“Let me be very clear….
I am not a pacifist and there is a tipping point at which activism and defense of the rights of my home, my food, my freedom and my family takes precidence (sic) over peaceful politically appropriate action with cameras and playing along while you get raped…
Another Wounded Knee, Ruby Ridge or Waco could easily happen in America because of police abuse, massive unemployment, corruption, Wall Street rip offs, denial of the right to food etc…
I also believe that each and every mentally and emotionally stable free American should know how to shoot and shoot well and that those Americans that choose to do so should own a gun and appreciate its place in history and freedom. On of my fondest memories was visiting Switzerland in 1983 and seeing a youth with a machine gun on his back going to the shooting range on a moped. I thought to myself….no body will ever mess with his rights. Homes in Switzerland have huge machine SIG guns and everyone knows how to use them. There is little violence in that land and the crime rate is nill. Cops thoughtfully enter homes after asking politely and do not brandish weapons like Miami Vice…”
I shoot and own guns….but you will never see them displayed or used against cops or any person. Until the tipping point. At that point my life is then the value which must be laid down in the balance and it is worth giving in trade. . . . Remember, those that live by the sword can also die by it. If you raise a gun in anger expect to pay a dear price at some point.
I think it is important to put all behavior within a context. Based on the public statements Mark makes, maybe this is why authorities who deal with him use caution. This murder of regulators happened in California. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Alexander_(businessman_and_murderer)
No doubt Claravale was treated differently. They voluntarily shut down their business as soon as they were informed by customers that there was a cluster of illnesses that all consumed their milk and worked closely with CDFA and public health to find the problem. Their behavior elicited a different response from everyone involved.
Mark always talks about Karma. You get what you give.
http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2012/05/publishers-platform-did-you-know-some-interesting-raw-milk-facts/#comments
So you’re saying that’s what these governments, these police forces, these corporations, the 1%, have coming?
http://www.davidicke.com/images/stories/May20124/flogging_of_a_slave.jpg
Angela Davis is supposedly no longer a Communist, she helped found the Committees of Correspondence for Democracy and Socialism. As for Mark’s ‘upbringing’, I’d not forgive anyone who put my kids in harms way in the manner that his dad did. A shame he didn’t consider his family. Mark has stated that his family comes first, a vast difference from his dad. I don’t see him doing the same as his dad. Yes, he is….what’s the word I want….. flamboyant and passionate, I’d be surprised if he truly put his family in harms way.
We might as well pack it in and get to practicing our “Heil Monsanto”.
Yeah, he endangered his family on numerous occasions. Freedom fighter? Irresponsible. If you’re going to fight and you know there are going to be ugly repercussions you remove your family to safety, especially the young children. The world didn’t revolve around just him.
Thanks Sylvia ; I feel so much better now … convinced to ” stop worrying and love Big Brother”. You’re welcome in Canada, anytime, where thousands of colonists who, at the time, felt as you do, and fled that contest. What Liberty you still enjoy, today, was bought and payed for in blood sweat and tears, by those who did not.
That said . . . Mark and I became active politically this election cycle and we are now Ron Paul Delegates from Maine to the RNC National Convention in Tampa. . . we beat the Establishment last weekend (Maine went all Paul:) and Mark and I as small local farmers who care about our food rights now hold key spots in our Maine GOP Republican Party (I am a State Committeewoman for our County), Mark is now the RNC National Committeeman for Maine . . . he now is a huge voice for small farmers and the rights of us to eat what we wish and after he is seated this September . . . will be able to put forward his agenda within the Republican Party for this to be accomplished . . . so far there are 7 Ron Paul Committemen and Women that have been recently elected that are for Liberty and Freedom . . . we need more so if you can become a Delegate in your state and most importantly vote in your upcoming State Primary, Caucuses and Conventions for Ron Paul (Texas and California are now Key States) that would be wonderful. Mark headlined his speech at our Convention with the platform of getting government out of the way of small farmers . . . he had a standing ovation . . .Frankly, from what I have seen . . . he is the only RNC or DNC committeeman who is a small farmer:)
This is how you change the system . . . not by complaining . . .protesting, et., al., you need to get involved with the political process . . . this is how change occurs. If Ron Paul is elected President . . . all of our posts over the last several years will be moot . . . you have to be the best farmer you can be and those that are small, local and clean will survive . . . Corporate farms which make people sick will no longer be subsidized and will go out of business . . . because the quality of food is so inferior. Our consumers will benefit because so much more will be available due to less regulatory burden.
If we care about our FREEDOM and LIBERTY with regards to food choice . . . . PLEASE . . . consider Ron Paul as your next President . . . and those running on his platform on all other offices (Yep . . . we are promoting those candidates as well . . .)
Kind regards,
Violet
http://www.kilbyridgefarmmaine.blogspot.com
I’d say the scum who attacked his family endangered his family.
It’s not generally my practice to blame the victims of aggression. I suppose Vernon Hershberger and other milk farmers are also endangering their families. They ought to look to their children’s financial futures, no? (Not to mention a close friend who home-schools and therefore doesn’t need any extra confrontation with the system, but who is nevertheless passionate about the milk movement. Yes, she’s very “irresponsible”, and is indeed running a risk.) From the system point of view, any kind of defiance of corporations and government is the height of “irresponsibility”.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2143584/Scopolamine-Powerful-drug-growing-forests-Colombia-ELIMINATES-free-will.html
Why wouldn’t every government in the world not use this drug on people in the name of national security???
Right up there with valium for memory loss….add it to the list along with fluoride..
A FB video statement from me will be posted later this afternoon with regards to an update on our recall.
On another subject, it appears that trashing Mark McAfee as some fringe crazy is the order of the day. Why not….it is one of the fear strategies to discredit me…You will not find a more respectful and law abiding citizen than Mark McAfee. I follow the belief that things will change with changing consumer confidence and choices…not with violence. Dollar voting trumps all violent acts. You will never see Mark McAfee challenging police officers or others with police powers. It just gives them the right to end you permanently. As a paramedic, it was me that kept the peace when the cops were not treating people fairly. I am not stupid….challenging a police officer or those with police powers is sure insanity.
OPDC is here to serve humanity and act as an example to farmers all across America and Canada that connecting to consumers and producing delicious raw milk can be done and should be done. We will become a lightening rod as this occurs. This is inevitable….it will happen and it is happening.
We are the most threatening thing to ever come along for Big Dairy Processors. The most allergenic food in America is under Dollar Voting Seige….while raw milk is growing and adding market share every day.
At OPDC our highest priority is our consumers safety and their health. We are driven by our consumers and not by the biased agencies of government and their alleies that are attempting to oppress raw milk availability.
Fairness….in 2006, 1,600 people were sickened by Campylobacter in CA from CDFA inspected pasteurized milk. What did they do?…they blamed raw milk and did not even put up a Press Release (none could be found in their databases …I asked them for one..they would not produce it ).
We take 100% responsibility for any campylobacter that may have effected any of our consumers in the last few months. We apologize for this and are also thankful that there were no hospitalizations…all cases passed with no additional issues.
We also do not under stand how a sample of raw cream that is perfect in every way…including literally no indication of coliforms ( less than 1 is the lowest possible for labs to report ) can also have a campylobacter present.
We are producing the cleanest and best products we have ever produced. We have also been told that we are under “heightened surveilance”. With that we do expect even greater harrassment as we go forward. It comes with progess and the territory as people discover the truth and raw milk and pasteurized milk suffers even more.
Amanda,
When someone claims to be sickened four months ago….there was plenty of time to test and establish a link to illness. A link to see if it was even raw milk that made them have some diarrhea.
My family is my highest priority…that includes my greater raw milk family. We are fully dedicated to production of raw milk and other organic whole food. We are fully dedicated to education and liberation of our greater family from the oppression of dead foods and processed garbage that is being sold to America as food. That is what I work for. Some may call it a fight. I call it a worthy mission and essential to our immunity and survival as humans.
There is no violence in this generation. I have learned from the last generation. My father was also non violent to the core. It was the crazy people that saw him as a radical that threatened our lives and killed our cows, burned our haystacks and killed my baby brother David at 9 years old. It was not an act of my fathers violence that ever did anything.
The consumers of raw milk in CA have a fully dedicated soldier for raw milk….a soldier that will not give up and uses education as his rifle and foods, words and deeds for bullets.
You Teach…You teach…You Teach. Education and information about Industrial lies and fake food will build health and liberate the farmers, consumers, minds hearts and GUT of America. We are dying by FOOD INC lies.
Teaching and feeding people is the most powerful I can do. Feeding people with a food that does not cause lactose intolerance or death to 7 kids ( since 1998 ) from allergies to pasteurized milk is the truth that backs it up.
When the other side resorts to violence that is when they have broken….not me.
In 2006 when a CDFA inspected creamery sickened between 1300-1600 people with 7 put in the hospital…with pasteurized milk. CDFA pleaded ignorance, blamed raw milk and could not find a bad bug….they shut the creamery down for a few hours and kept on operating and did not publish a Press Release.
http://outbreakdatabase.com/details/california-state-prisons-spoiled-milk-2006/
This is the arena in which we battle.
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/05/14/mercks-adhd-drugs-unsafe.aspx?e_cid=20120514_DNL_artNew_1
Ken
Proton Pump Inhibitors (PPIs) I don’t know if the packaging has changed, the inserts used to say something to the affect of: take for 2 weeks only and take no more often that 2 or 3 times a year. How about changing diet and lifestyle? Research in the explosion of GERD,Reflex…… diet comes to mind..
Statins are the side effects really worth the risk? How about changing life style and diet? That’d be too simple and no one would make money.
Antidepressants There are many reason why your heart and liver need to be monitored while taking these, and the increase in potential for suicide…….
Hormone Replacement Therapy Really? Are they still pushing these?
ADHD Drugs and Drugs for Pediatric Psychopathologies, such as “pediatric bipolar disorder”
Has anyone researched why there is an explosion of ADHD? Wonder how many true phsyc patients there are…
Asthma-Control Medicines Most have some component of steroids which leads to diabetes, renal problems, cardiovascular issues…… Where’s the research in the cause and prevention?
I agree completely.
All of us go under “heightened surveilance”. . . if we have any product that tests positive-that comes with the turf, the degree of regulatory over-reach, harassment etc. must not be confused with, nor excuse, a producer’s responsibility.
It is interesting to me that producers are being encouraged to put in their own mini-microbiology “labs” to initiate prescreens for mastitis and bacterial contamiants.. One of the scientists at Michigan State University has a website dedicated to on farm screening. This may be daunting to many people, but it seems to me with a larger operation with much at stake it may be a prudent step as a prescreen of product in addition to split sample testing using certified labs. And, I am looking at the possibility that on farm mini-labs could be certified. At least considering prescreen testing would have an educational effect.
I suppose my philosophy is to rebel peacefully (i.e. live outside the system as much as possible), but when the bullies come for you, stand your ground. This is something I worry about; will I have that kind of courage? I pray that I will.