The toughest part of launching any new business or organization is getting those first few believers to come on board, and then talk you up to the bulk of other prospective customers or members.
Now, more than a year into its launch, the Raw Milk Institute (RAWMI) seems finally to have begun attracting those first few believers. A key to turning heads for RAWMI has been its ability to deliver product liability insurance for its safety conscious members. It’s taken longer than founder Mark McAfee would have liked, but that’s often the way it is with new organizations seeking to implement a new model for doing things, especially within an industry under intense government regulatory pressure.
RAWMI’s first certified member is an Oregon dairy, Champoeg Creamery. Its owner Charlotte Smith, explained to its customers last week how RAWMI had already begun to make a big difference to the dairy’s operations. I thought Smith’s explanation was more eloquent than anything I might write, so I am publishing her letter to customers here:
Good Morning, Champoeg Creamery Milk Customers,
First, let me say how much I value and appreciate each one of you. I’m in awe that you make the commitment to drive out of your way each week or two in order to pick up your milk. I love hearing all the amazing stories of good and improved health from incorporating raw milk and all the goodies you make from it into your diet. I have customers who talk about their kid’s behavior improving, autism symptoms lessening, pain & other symptoms from auto-immune disorders being relieved, eczema/asthma/allergies improving or disappearing, colitis and acid reflux disappearing… the list goes on and on.
I don’t always update you on our farm happenings, and although I try to include you in the exciting ones, I usually downplay the difficult ones because I think that’s being a professional. However, I want to balance that professionalism with making you aware of some of the hardship and especially the politics of raw milk so you can continue to play a part in making it available in Oregon and the US. Milking cows is hard enough work – add to that being in an industry that is attacked politically and otherwise on a regular basis, and, well, let’s just say I have a great support system to keep me from giving up on the darkest of days.
As I mentioned earlier, we are the first dairy in the nation to be “Listed” by the Raw Milk Institute. [Editor’s note–the listing is worth taking a look at, to see the data posted.] I hope that many dairies will follow behind us and do the same – it is a GREAT organization, founded by Mark McAfee, who is the biggest advocate for raw milk in North America, if not worldwide. I will be telling our story about the listing process (took all summer!) at the Weston Price convention in a couple weeks. Just a few of many benefits of being listed — a group to be accountable to, a huge support network to deal with issues, and a means to provide you with the safest raw milk in the state.
The high and low this week involved receiving an email Monday morning with my product liability insurance premium – $10,000 per year. What a bombshell – premiums have been running about $1,000 per year until this year when carriers began announcing they would not be renewing current policies in Oregon. After submitting our application to many wholesalers over the last few weeks, this was the only one not declined, and just by virtue of it being $10,000 seems like they are in essence declining it.
Since I’m a part of this valuable organization, RAWMI, I immediately called Mark McAfee. He went into high speed Monday and spent most of the day emailing, conference calling with the CEO of at least one Insurance Co., working with my agent locally, had stats and explanations flying all around the country about why a dairy like ours is a much lower risk than a raw milk dairy that is not testing regularly or required to have any basic standards whatsoever. He battled for us all week. Yesterday my agent responded that he had received a quote for $750 per year and had 2 more on the way from other carriers. So I went from a cost-prohibitive $10,000 per year that doesn’t make sense to even be in business to pay, to a manageable $750 that offers our farm and our customers protection.
The value of a “Listing” by the Raw Milk Institute just increased 100 fold in my mind. Because they are a 501c3 non-profit corp. they cannot ask for membership fees, so they do advise a $500 donation for the “Listing” opportunity. This $500 is intended to come from the consumers of raw milk making tax deductible donations to cover this cost. Since we are the first dairy listed we are still getting things in place and I have not made you aware of this donation. Beginning today, there will be a box in the milk pickup area for you to donate. I have 100 customers, so if everyone donated $5 each year we would reach the $500 with not much effort. After my emotionally challenging week and the immediate response of Mark to remedy the problem, this seems like the right timing to make you aware of this, and the fee is insignificant in comparison to the support we receive in return.
Champoeg Creamery will match any donations received up to $500 per year – being “Listed” is this valuable to us. There are some of you who will find the $5 a hardship and if so, please do not feel obligated in the least and you don’t even need to mention it to me or explain in any way. I know we will easily reach this reasonable amount.
Thank you for your continued support and business. I am humbled by your continued dedication, loyalty, patronage and trust. Without you and your support, we would not be in business providing you with the safest milk in Oregon.
Warm Regards,
Charlotte
—
Charlotte Smith
Champoeg Creamery
She has been a pleasure to work with because she has the right ethical DNA to start with. She cares about safety and clean raw milk. RAWMI chose Champoeg Creamery to be the first LISTED dairyperson because of this DNA. She is a leader and a teacher with a very deep and personal raw milk story. All Charlotte needed was a framework to display her hard work. RAWMI provides that frame work and support system and infrastructure.
After the Weston A Price conference and after everyone gets to meet Charlotte ( she will be at the RAWMI booth and will be speaking as part of my presentation about RAWMI ) and hear her LISTING story…we will then work on LISTING additional dairymen.
RAWMI is only as good as the LISTED dairymen. Charlotte is the Cream of Raw Milk Dairymen and we are so proud of her. The entire Board of Directors and RAWMI Executive Advisory Board congratulates Champoeg Creamery on their demonstrated ethics and high standards.
By this time next year…we hope that RAWMI has LISTED another 10 dairymen and that all of them rise to the standards shown by Charlotte. In the final assessment….RAWMI LISTING is only as good as the Dairyman. Not one bit better. All praise to the dairyman.
All the best,
Mark and the RAWMI team.
Mark
John Sheehan is a criminal. Nothing he does or that the FDA does shocks me anymore. I have personally experienced the crimes of the FDA and now I have a much better appreciation for how to handle a crime syndicate family.
Remember…raw milk is love and this is war. Simple as that.
My daughter was sickened with raw milk this year. Her medical bills total over a million dollars in the past seven months. I can write about the emotional and physical side of how raw milk has forever changed her life and ours but that is for another time. Lets talk about the financial liability of raw milk. OVER A MILLION DOLLAR IN CLAIMS FOR ONE LITTLE TWO YEAR OLD GIRL. Who has labs every two weeks because of kidneys and are billed at $1,000 each lab drawl. Physical, occupational and speech therapy at $200 a session. Four specialists she sees endocrine, nephrologist, neurology and physicists. Orthotics that cost $2,000 cause maybe with them she will learn to walk again. Cost that will continue for her lifetime.
She was one of 20 sicken. One of four who were hospitalized with hemolytic uremic syndrome. Though I cant tell you the medical cost of all four kids hospitalized I am guessing that is at over 3 million dollars. Where was RAWMI when my daughter got sick? Where was the rest of the raw milk community to help us?
There is a real financial risk to raw milk. I hope that the liability policies you are putting into place will protect yourself and your business but most importantly the littlest customers who unfortunately will be the ones forever impacted if something as devastating as what happened to my daughter happened to theirs.
Earth provides enough to satisfy every man’s need, but not every man’s greed Gandhi
http://www.countdown.org/end_articles/fam_kofi_annans_astonishing_facts.htm
North Americans spend an obscene amount on healthcare relative to the rest of the world yet the percentage of our income spent on food ranks the lowest in the world.
Ken
Insurance companies are in the business of making money. Be careful if you have a couple glasses of booze and trip, they don’t have to pay for your healthcare. There may also be a clause in your policy that states they don’t have to pay if you eat contaminated foods….
http://www.aafp.org/fpm/2002/1000/p47.html Back in 2002 family doctors paid @$14000 per year and they don’t make the big $$$- most make less than $200000/yr. Another reason why the amount of family doctors are dwindling.
$200 per session is price gouging. Your daughter sees a physicists?
My son saw an infectious disease specialist twice, each time was for less than 5 min and the bill came to $600, that was almost 25 yrs ago. The man did nothing.
http://www.kendallturner.com/farms/Dairy.aspx <~~ has policy for raw milk sales... Who owns the insurance companies? I pay extra home owners insurance because I own dogs. If my car insurance only pays up to $100000 per injury per accident, who pays for costs over the $100000? http://www.foodliabilitylaw.com/tags/liability/ You an sue anyone for anything……. even the peanut corp of America had inadequate insurance…
“People who have health insurance, especially good insurance with no cap, have some level of security if they get sick from any risk source, accident, etc. People who dont have health insurance perhaps have to weigh a different risk-benefit analysis. But those are personal choices we all make, whether to have health insurance (or a job that offers it), and what risks to take in life.”
People become ill from many sources; petting zoos,pools, foods-some types more than others,etc. Some sue for various reasons; easy money, cover health costs, revenge money, etc.
It appears, per the cdc estimates on food borne illnesses, most don’t sue, why is that? Could it be a combination of substandard heath care? unknown cause? so many variables.. Was it obvious where the contamination came from? Was the company a repeat offender? like the peanut factories? ground beef factories? Were the companies negligent? Unfortunately, in lawsuits, lawyers are often able to make companies look negligent no matter what.
As a student nurse, I had the opportunity to watch a malpractice suit. The lawyer made the nurse “look” negligent. When we returned to class, we researched standards of practice, and found that the nurse followed those standards, yet the lawyer made her appear that she hadn’t- and it wasn’t her that was being sued.
If you drive a car, you must have insurance, contractors must be licensed and insured. So why shouldnt anyone who produces food for sale to the general public?
“I also think its very important to distinguish cow-share operations from licensed, state-inspected dairies. In a cow-share, everyone is going in with eyes-wide-open, choosing to participate, and to confirm they trust whomever is doing the milking, storage, etc. All participants are taking responsibility. That is much different from buying retail from a licensed dairy. Raw dairy requires hygiene to be much more stringent than on large-scale dairies that sell through pasteurized channels.”
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:dwxGNxj6jBUJ:www.farmagentresource.com/agvisor/2012/AgVisor%2520June%25202012.pdf+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESghf0OUmeaaaNK86QPC4qE0xgfVFOZua_kI_dvXbK_HYhbn1eddu2lL05dJQmLHjaEUxEtB0H-r-ZWzfca8yn4qUni42hX9LXANfJ1qSVYrLQv51diYJjyyfCXMFSEFpDzVacp7&sig=AHIEtbT6Y1s-XOr71_A1kA_xHe3KvTw9qQ
pediatric physiatry program (also known as Pediatric Rehabilitation Medicine) focuses on the individual’s ability to function as independently as possible, looking at all aspects of the childs well-being, rather than just as a patient. Our program treats children with the following conditions:
Brain injury fractures
Cerebral palsy
Spina bifida
Birth brachial plexus palsy
Neuromuscular diseases
Torticollis
Congenital and acquired amputations
Acute and long-term spinal cord injuries
Pediatric burns
In addition, our pediatric physiatrists also provide prescriptions for durable medical equipment such as wheelchairs, bracing and communication devices, and manage spasticity with medication, physical therapy and Botox.
Certainly you should share your story – it is one of the data points that we all have to take into consideration when choosing to drink raw milk or eat any other food. Does the risk mean that people shouldn’t be able to eat any food they choose? I think not.
This spring, my son got smacked in the face by a baseball during practice. He was very, very lucky – it was nothing more than a swollen cheek (and yes, he was wearing a helmet). It could have been much worse, like his eye or nose or teeth. Would any of those injuries mean that kids shouldn’t play baseball? Again, I think not. Although it’s easy to dismiss the risks for a common activity like baseball, the reality is that someone, somewhere will get hurt, sometimes very badly. We all make tradeoffs.
A civilized society has to balance liberty and safety, and I daresay the edge needs to go to liberty. My beloved United States of America is on a dangerous turn towards the other way.
Amanda
I didn’t know they renamed the rehab docs.
Amanda
@10 years ago, for an RN who worked -other than ER or OB/GYN, a policy for one million coverage was about @100 per year. If you worked the ED or OB/GYN areas, then it was significantly higher(I don’t recall the exact amount).
In the state of PA, nurse midwives have or had only two carriers to choose from for malpractice insurance. Many hospitals will say they cover the nursing staff should a law suit be initiated. I’ve heard stories that lean toward not depending on any employer to protect me. Depending upon your employer to defend you is not wise. Per a friend of mine: ‘The first question my employer’s attorneys asked us (all of the nurses were named as defendants) was whether or not we had personal malpractice insurance. I guess it wasn’t public record. Then they told us that at any time during the proceedings they could stop representing us as individuals. They did. So where would I have been without my malpractice insurance? In the middle of a lawsuit without an attorney. ‘ Just being named in a lawsuit, and having done no wrong, may inhibit you from being employed elsewhere as an RN as it is asked on most applications.
Insurance is another scam. Why does my home owners insurance go up when there are mud slides in Ca, tornadoes in the midwest, hurricanes on the coasts, and I haven’t placed any claims? Soon NY will be like Florida, difficult to get insurance or have to pay extremely high prices.
If consumers pretend that if you have insurance, so you must be a serious producer, this is also a false equivalency in my opinion. Insurance simply provides some sort of monetary compensation to an aggrieved party, while making a profit for the insurance company. These companies crunch serious numbers to avoid paying compensation and ensure their own profit. The compensation they provide is in many cases inadequate (as is our health system), and will not make a sickened or damaged person well again.
Standards can be a good way of improving safety, but requiring insurance is not a way forward for safety.
” The intense rotational grazing system she practices insures that she is producing the highest quality raw milk.”
Date Standard Plate Count (SPC) Coliforms
Oct 2012 < 15,000 cfu/ml < 25 cfu/ml Sep 2012 < 15,000 cfu/ml < 25 cfu/ml Aug 2012 < 15,000 cfu/ml < 25 cfu/ml Jul 2012 < 15,000 cfu/ml < 25 cfu/ml It is good to finally see the practices that Rawmi approves. Is < 15,000 cfu/ml the standard that we should be striving for? I don't agree with the institute that intensive rotational grazing produces the "highest quality milk". Extensive grazing on long term (never been plowed) permanent pasture that gives the cows access at all times to hundreds of different grasses,legumes,herbs (weeds),brambles ,shrubs,trees,etc. is the way to produce the highest quality milk. Confinement leads to mineral deficiencies and to health problems.Minerals that come in a bag do not help. The cows should have plentiful pasture of this type at all times. The goal is not to replace the wildlife on the farm with the cows but to add only enough cows that the effect is to increase the diversity of life without taking away from what is already there. Intensive grazing is a system that is designed to maximize production of one thing (milk in this case). The wildlife plays an important part in cycling nutrients in the system.Allowing the rest of the natural world to inhabit the farm is what makes the farm sustainable. I don't mean to be critical of Rawmi's standards.We all must realize that this is a long journey back to truly nourishing food. Starting to produce your own milk in any manner is wonderful step in the right direction and grazing the cows is another wonderful step.I want to encourage everyone to observe the natural world,respect it even though you can't understand how it works.We need to fit into it with as little disturbance as possible. miguel
I think this is an important question that the raw milk community simply wants to deny. Mary Martin went through Sally Fallon, the WAPF leader, and Mark McAfee, owner of OPDC, lying over and over again about the culpability of raw milk in his illness. It’s been hashed out here over and over again…raw milk supporters and providers blaming the victims by saying that their immunity just wasn’t up to snuff. You know, that if they were healthy enough they should have been able to handle E.COLI 0157-H7. In your case, you know the unfortunate truth…a two year old’s immune system is no match for this modern e.coli.
I am interested in seeing how the long time posters here respond to you. Are they going to attack you, like they did Mary? Or are they going to be gracious?
You are brave for posting here and I hope nothing but the best for you and your daughter and your family, as well as the 19 other sickened people from the Oregon outbreak.
The Federal Reserve providing free money/zero interests/driving inflation, etc., artificially inflating the price of land and homes especially (I just read a great article to this very fact that land prices continue to soar, as the super rich, who benefit from Obama’s Bernake free money give away, use it to buy more and more land), is one of many factor driving up insurance prices.. the government subsidizing people’s stupidity, encouraging them to build in flood planes, hurricane allies, etc…
Could say more, but the whole system is a rigged game. The winners are friends with the pols and who get the stolen money first… the losers, everyone else.
And might I just add that likening getting hit in the face by a baseball to the severely life-altering event that you went through is totally absurd. Yes, we expect that sometimes when we play sports, we might get hit in the face. But the situation you went through is obviously TOTALLY DIFFERENT. Hello??? We’re talking a MILLION DOLLARS in insurance claims, and your daughter went through an absolute nightmare and her life is changed forever because of what she went through. I feel so sorry for you, and I am so angry at all the raw milkers who seem to think that a child going through this is okay, or that it is the same thing as getting hit in the face by a baseball!! How absolutely infuriating!!
I sure hope you will keep telling your story. There aren’t many people that are willing to speak up about their concerns regarding raw milk directly to the raw milk community. I’ve been doing so since I first did the reading about the supposed (nonexistent) benefits of raw milk. I’ve made a few people think twice about giving their children raw milk and for that I am thankful. Unfortunately it is going to take a whole lot of us to speak up and get everyone to actually think about what they are doing. But it is imperative, as children, such as your sweet baby, should not have to suffer because of the awful decisions that their parents make.
As others have expressed their support for a speedy healthy recovery, I do the same. I would like to encourage you to write out your experience, and hopefully you kept a daily diary of all doctors appts and stays in hospitals, along with your daughter’s reaction to this ordeal and other family members.
The reason for writing a daily diary is multi-fold, it helps you to release suppressed emotions (we all carry them when stressed) for many it helps in emotional healing, and allows you to recall things that you may have forgotten. As you re-read what you wrote, details may come back to you. Also, this will aide in the event you should go to court.
The healthcare community are humans and they not only make mistakes, they can’t always agree on the best practices for care; for example-giving antibiotics, anti-diarrhea, narcotics with suspected E-coli.
I have always encouraged patients and family members to write daily while under health care as you cannot remember all that is said or done, especially when under such stress, also question everything you don’t know/understand. An example is being newly diagnosed with diabetes, that patient’s brain stops functioning; it is trying to assimilate what all that diagnoses entails. The doctor can speak for 30 minutes and they don’t hear what the doctor is saying after that word. Later, they think the doctor didn’t say anything more than they have diabetes. It’s a survival mechanism of our brain.
Raw Milk Institute’s Common Standards are a great place for current producers in America to analyze their own practices and incorporate new ones, including the RAMP safety plan, and they will upgrade the quality of their product immediately.
Who are the ‘raw milkers’ “who seem to think that a child going through this is okay”? I can’t imagine anyone thinking it’s ok. I’ve not read WAPF’s information on raw milk, so I can’t comment on it. I never heard of WAPF until I came to this blog.
Welcome to “The Complete Patient BLOG”. You are welcomed and your story and your comments are essential to the progress being made in the raw milk markets and in its safety. At least this is how I feel about you.
In the end….the consumers and the children are the focus of everything at RAWMI. The farmer serves and nourishes the consumer and the next generation.
The question was asked….where was RAWMI when my child became sick. Great question???
That is exactly why RAWMI was founded. As I traveled from state to state fighting for and testifying for Raw Milk access….I saw very clearly a need for basic standards and a farmer and consumer friendly organization that could assist farmers to produce the lowest risk raw milk.
Let me ask this: Jilly…were you one of the Foundation Farms customers?
If you were ( I assume you were ), you are exactly the reason that RAWMI was founded.
Raw milk can be all sorts of things unless it is defined. Raw milk can be both: dangerous or it can be very very safe. It all depends on the conditions at the farm and in the cow. RAWMI used pictures of Foundation Farms during our training day at Champoeg Creamery several months ago when we provided some initial training to about 50 Micro Dairies in Oregon. Charlotte is the only dairy so far to enter the LISTING program and complete the process of being lISTED. Many more small Oregon dairymen are applying for RAWMI LISTING at this time.
Jilly, when you visited Foundation Farms, did you ever ask hard questions of them when you picked up your raw milk? Did you see the horrendous muddy conditions and poor body conditions of the cows that prevailed and did you ask about bacteria counts? Did you ever watch the cows being milked? I would be very curious to know what the conditions were when you bought raw milk in January of 2012. The pictures I have from that period of time show a gross lack of organization, no system to control or maintain cleanliness. The cows appeared malnoursished, it was a disaster waiting to happen and it did.
When I tried to call the owners of Foundation Farms, there was no answer and they never called me back. RAWMI had been formed for just a few months in spring 2012 when I reached out to them. That is where RAWMI was when your duaghter became ill.
It is so hard to maintain any kind of objectivity on the subject of raw milk when little ones are sickened. It makes my heart cry to hear of this happening…It drives me to do even more at RAWMI. But this progress takes time and it takes desire on the part of the dairyman.
In CA RAWMI has been roundly rejected by the micro dairies. RAWMI is seen as a attack against freedoms. In my book of freedom….there are two sides….the freedom to produce raw milk and the freedom not to get sick from it. They go hand in hand.
As raw milk emerges as a new broader market, RAWMI will play just a part in the bigger picture. I strongly encourage all parents to investigate the producers practices prior to purchase and consumption of any raw milk. How is that done…is it very hard to do? Producers are sometimes very secret because they are scared and they live in a vacuum of ignorance and do not know the information themselves. They would be embarrassed to not be able to give you hard answers to your good questions.
So…we have a long way to go. Raw milk when done right is a medical blessing. It heals the GUT, it is a bone builder….it is a powerful immune rebuilder, it is a life saving cure for asthma ( 4000 kids a year die from asthma ). Raw milk is love. Literally….it is the greatest health food gift that can be consumed. It is the product of 160 million years of mammalian natural evolutionary perfection. It is the food that increases strength, protects the baby and optimizes growth and health. If it did anything bad to us…we would have all stopped drinking raw milk or we would have died out long ago. To the contrary raw milk provided a competitive advantage to its consumers.
We must all also redefine what safe food is. Is safe food highly allergenic? Pasteurized milk has killed 8 kids since 1998 secondary to pasteurized milk allergies. Is that safe???? Is sterilized food safe? All that does is destroy the immune system. So we are stuck with taking more responsibility and embracing transparency in the production and consumption of raw milk. That is at the very core of the mission at RAWMI.
The USDA has a program called “get to to know your farmer and get to know your food”. In the case of raw milk….this could not be any truer. When a farmer is RAWMI LISTED, the guts of the operation are on display for all the world to see. When you see LISTED….you know that the farmer cares and the facts are published and explained for you to see. Safety is something you can count on and risk is dramatically reduced. You can see it…you can understand it. The pilot in charge of the farm is not flying blind or with out training. He or she has a plan and they follow it. They test to assure that the plan works. You see the test results.
Jilly, I would love to talk with you about your daughter. If you ever want to talk….I have all sorts of questions and would love to learn from your journey. call me at 559-846-9732 anytime.
Many of the therapies that you are being asked to under go contribute to even deeper immune depression and poor health for your baby. You need to get your childs immune system and body recovered.
All the best,
Mark McAfee
RAWMI
This is true of all foods.
“In CA RAWMI has been roundly rejected by the micro dairies. RAWMI is seen as a attack against freedoms.”
Wow, talk about changing history…you attacked and condemned those micro dairies without ever setting foot on them. Indeed, you had nothing positive to say about them or their farmers.
Like you, my child also became ill after drinking contaminated raw milk. Ive been blogging here for over 5 years maintaining the victims voice. Someone has to speak out for the children who have become ill. It is a tough crowd. Most here want access to raw milk without regulationsjust like the operation you got your milk from.
Peace Peace Peace….. breathe….sister breathe…
Not true at all. I was niave and I did not understand the political landscape of CA Micro dairies. They do not like RAWMI because RAWMI does not fit with there belief systems. People that refuse to stand up and be counted ( they refuse to be identified as raw milk producers and refuse to let anyone see their operations ). Hiding is not part of being accountable, taking responsibility or being transparent.
I no longer worry about these things. I do what is right and let the chips fall where ever they lay. The older I get the better this works and the truer the statement is.
Ask Jilly how she feels about raw milk dairymen that go into hiding when they make kids sick. Ask Jilly if she cares about the feelings of those that caused her kids illness.
Sylvia…I just do not understand you at all. You throw stones at RAWMI, but you fail to show up and make a difference. What is your trip? What do you believe in..where do you stand.
Do not cry with the sick kids and their moms and then torment RAWMI when we stand up to do something to prevent sickness. Rock throwers just piss me off.
Warning: Unpasteurized milk, also known as raw milk, is a raw agricultural product and may contain harmful bacteria (not limited to E. coli, Campylobacter, Listeria, and Salmonella) and can lead to serious injury and even death. Pregnant women, infants, children, the elderly, and persons with lowered resistance to disease (immune compromised) have higher risk for harm, which may include bloody diarrhea, vomiting, fever, dehydration, Hemolytic Uremic Syndrome, Guillian-Barre Syndrome, Reactive Arthritis, Irritable, Bowel Syndrome, miscarriage, or death.
Note: Raw Milk must be kept refrigerated at 40 degrees at all times.
http://www.realrawmilkfacts.com/
The people that man those sites are well informed.
Ken
I did not call Foundation Farms until after all the kids were home…at least 45 days after the incident. This is not us verses them. It is 100% in service to the consumer and building a track record This is not about dirty farmers…it is about education, transparency and investment in safety.
Jilly…do you think that Foundation Farms was a safe raw milk source? What solutions do you suggest? There are many raw milk dairymen all over America seeking a solution. Everything is great and wonderful with raw milk until kids get sick and monkeys start flying…then the moms turn on their farmers and everything gets dark and ugly and Marler becomes a white knight in shining armor.
There is a better way…
Since raw milk is not going away and only gaining in immense popularity because of the health benefits experienced by many, the answer is a resource for raw milk producers. Raw Milk Institute. They will mentor and hand-hold until your milk production is up to standard. All there for the asking. The problem is, like Mark indicated, farmers hide, they lack training and knowledge, and live in “a vacuum of ignorance.” If you call the Dept. of Ag in Oregon, or the OSU extension office, both logical resources for farming, you are given no help. So you keep doing what you are doing. This local farm had plenty of complaints to indicate their milk was unsanitary given that it went bad in less than a week. This is where ethics come in. And guts. Guts to take responsibility for your product and reach out as far as you need to reach, even if it’s another state, for help.
Raw milk in Oregon is experiencing the growing pains of being far more popular than the experienced farmers can keep up with, so we have plenty of inexperienced non-farmers giving it a try. Why any farmer in Oregon would ignore that RAWMI is out there is beyond me. Consumers must demand their farmers have training. Right now, that resource for that training is Raw Milk Institute. These farms could improve their milk quality IMMEDIATELY in the time you all have been posting on this blog. We could have gone from milk that lasts 3 days to milk that lasts 3 weeks (and therefore far safer) in one 12 hour period between milkings.
Instead of throwing jabs online, why not email those you know who drink raw milk, tell them there is help and encourage them to get on it, because as I said, it’s not going away. So do your part to help. It’s not easy. It requires hard work, money to upgrade your equipment and be able to call the vet and feed your cows properly, it takes a big time commitment, and most importantly, high morals and ethics. Support your farmer, tell your friends to support their farmer (whatever that support may be, financially or otherwise) to use these available resources to produce safe raw milk.
In the past you have bee quite derogitory towards the small dairy farmers. Torment you? Don’t flatter yourself. I’ll have to ask Pattie how she likes hiding and not standing up…
It appears that all jilly is trying to do is teach people that some of the information about raw milk is false and she wants people to be aware of that. She even stated she didn’t feel it should be banned.
I cant fix what happened to her or her child. I can offer sympathy/empathy and words that may help her heal from her ordeal. As I’ve said before its usually multiple factors that cause illness/disease.
Where do I stand? Freedom of choice. You consume what you want and I’ll comsume what I want. Give me honest facts so I can make an informed decision. If the govt cared about peoples health they would teach those who are producing a product how to avoid contamination. They would not push it underground where contamination will only grow.
8 children died after drinking perfectly pastuerized milk since 1998. Is that safe food?
Today, I received a consumer complaint. The consumer had called to complain that her daughter had become sick after drinking our product. This is how clueless she was. The product name brand was Gossner….not OPDC. It said “all natural” on the outside so she Googled “all natural” .and OPDC came up and we had a phone number that could be called. So she called me to complaint that our product had .sickened her daughter. I asked her to please read me the label….she said it was UHT…
She had no idea what any of this meant. Her kid was very sick from Gossner UHT all natural milk.
Is this safe!!! You can not make cheese from UHT milk….how is it supposed to be digestible?? Especially for a baby. Babies thrive on breast milk….raw milk!!
I told her to gather up her baby and take the product to a good pediatrics center immediately…
Reconsider what safe is…
As raw milk is segregated into transparent high quality LISTED products and other raw milk that can run the gambit between excellent to very dangerous, more and more rocks will be thrown.
This is expected…pioneers will be known by the goodness of their deeds and the health of their consumers… So be it.
A large CA dairy has had three outbreaks/recalls since RAWMI was founded last year. It even had a DNA match to the cattle in an E. Coli outbreak about 11 months ago. Is there anything RAWMI is doing to improve the safety of raw milk coming from that CA dairy?
Amanda
My sense is that Marler is waiting for the right client. He can’t just sue the WAPF if he has no standing. Don’t give him the chance — the community needs to show FAR more support for victims of raw milk pathogens.
Amanda
I agree with the need for support. As far as they being victims of a pathogen this is where we go our separate ways. Those people who become ill are victims of a system thats gone awry.
The organism is simply here for the ride. Their sole purpose in life is to survive and accomplish their task, which they do very well.
Here is a comment by a former professor of cardiology from Middlesex Medical School in London, and a former Vice-Chancellor of Manipal University describing his struggle with what he sees in the Mumbai slums, The next morning, I saw the usual sight of the Municipal Corporation lorry carrying waste dumps for incineration. The lorry had five workers and a couple of rag-pickers. One of the women had an infant whom she put on the front seat while they were loading the vehicle. They rummage through the content as if it were some heap of gold! The woman breastfeeds the child in between. One cannot pass by that area because of the foul smell. I have been seeing this scene enacted daily. Despite my pleas to the powers that be, the routine has not changed. These people do not have gloves or shoes. They bring their breakfast and eat it while on duty. They keep smoking beedies in between. I have not seen them wash their hands anytime!
This also brings to mind the study of asthma in Mumbai slums compared to the best homes there. The ratio of asthma incidence was 10 to one in favour of the clean kids! The multitude of germs in the slums keeps the childrens immune system robust to avoid asthma. Whereas the child from the wealthy home gets antibiotics for even a common cold, the slum child probably has not come in contact with antiseptics and/or antibiotics, thus keeping its immune system robust. A crawling baby will go to every corner to pick up the dirt and eat! It is hardwired before birth to do that to get germs inside to strengthen the immune system! During delivery, the baby acquires trillions of germs of all kinds into its orifices from the
I certainly do not advocate such a deprived and extreme filthy lifestyle, however I do believe that these real life scenarios will help to create a very much-needed perspective.
RAWMIs valiant attempt to produce safe products is a precarious balancing act that will inevitably run into hurdles.
I wish them all the best however if society doesnt turn away from its current fear driven destructive mania, those hurdles may become insurmountable.
A the good doctor states, The world needs deschooling quickly about the benefit of looking after our friends the germs in their natural habitat for our own good in the long run. Let children play in the dirt outside in the sun. Simple, inexpensive, oil-based soap is all that is needed with clean water to wash ones hands or for taking bath. No antiseptic soaps are needed. They could damage ones immune system in the long run.
Ken
“Recalls and Outbreaks” are completely different things. I will not go into the long winded discussion that surrounds each of the events you mention. Not all events had assumed illnesses associated with them. One recall was simply a discovery of some campylobacter in some cream on routine testing, when the whole and skim were negative. This was a regional and date code specific recall…no illnesses. This is not a food safety concern….there were no illnesses.
At every hurdle, OPDC learns more and gets better. We installed a lab and test 12 times per day. We hired a full time food safety techinician to validate and verify RAMP program compliance. We do more feedback of data to our milking teams. They compete for lowest bacteria counts and are paid incentives.
We are more consistent with our counts than ever.
Broad strokes do not work….the details of each event are critical. Each is completely different. We are intensively tested by many different agencies in Gov. We are tested more than any other food.
We take the challenge of food safety very seriously. We also deeply appreciate the Genomics work being done at UC Davis and other centers around the world. There is now no question that processing damages milk and causes all sorts of deficiencies in the resulting highly processed milk. The latest Milk Genome Consortium Splash November Newsletter makes the sceintific case to eat unprocessed milk ( also colostrum and buttermilk ) to treat Crohns.
Really, your line of reasoning is just so maddening. But I guess that is how you can justify making huge profits off of families, while making some kids so incredibly sick that their entire lives are changed. It’s truly horrifying, what you do.
But I agree with Mary, that warning label is an absolute must if nothing else.
Your mind reading capabilities are severely lacking.
If you search this blog, you can find where Mark did admit some contamination came from his farm that made some ill. It was either this year or last half of last year.
Too bad it has been pasteurized milk that has caused deaths in the last 10 or more years. That’s the beauty of living in America, you can have a strong opinion and not force everyone to comply with your point of view. Liberty and justice for all
Said the mongoose “run and find out!”.
We send out 12 samples per day for testing to our 3rd party lab. We test for ecoli 0157H7 on some of those tests. Most of the tests are for coliforms. Testing coliforms is more effective than testing for pathogens. Testing for pathogens is like looking for needles in a huge hay stack. Checking coliforms is testing the whole hay stack for conditions that would tend to suggest pathogens. This protocol has been broadly accepted as a much better approach. We discussed doing on farm pathogen testing and experts at CDFA and DPH both recommended against it. They said that it would create a bio harzard ( breeding and growing batches of pathogens on the farm is a horrible idea ) at the farm, where one did not already exist. We agreed 100%. We did perform on farm pathogen tests many years ago, but since have changed our protocols to test for conditions for pathogenic ecoli. We do extensive testing off farm at our contract lab. We are very clear about this on our FAQ at OPDC.com
Amym,
What is your real name….who are you? What is it that keeps you in hiding?
I respect Amanda and Mary, at least the have the guts to speak their peace and put their name next to it.
1500-1000 years ago, the ancient Hindus said “the cow is the mother of the universe”…do you know why they said this in a mantra??? Because when human moms died or could not nurse, it was the cow that fed the baby. She was the surrogate mother.
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=indian+boy+nursing+on+cows+teat&num=10&hl=en&biw=1113&bih=595&tbm=isch&tbnid=cvCiMgerpkNwKM:&imgrefurl=http://www.weirdasianews.com/2011/09/17/20month-cambodian-boy-drinks-milk-straight-cows-udder/&docid=gjBHLN-pDFwX6M&imgurl=http://www.weirdasianews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Child.jpg&w=390&h=285&ei=cwSTUPbJJMnriQKB34CYAw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=108&vpy=141&dur=1172&hovh=192&hovw=263&tx=105&ty=153&sig=109564195474111593239&page=1&tbnh=119&tbnw=163&start=0&ndsp=17&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:73
I think that settles it. Cow milk is definitely a replacement for human breast milk at least after a few months, although I know of many moms that fed their kids raw cows milk from birth ( although it is not recommended and a specially made raw cows milk formula is more highly recommended ). Your ideas that cows milk is not for human consumption, conflicts totally will all of human history.
That either makes you really un-educated or a space alien. Not sure which, since you do not have a real name…I guess you are a space alien. Mammalian milk in raw form has been consumed by cultures all arround the world for thousands of years. If you did not have a convenient super market ( circa 150 years ago ) down the street….you would look for some grass and mammal that would eat it and learn to expoit that mammal pretty damn quick. Starvation is the alternative. In fact in 1636, that is exactly what happened to the Pilgrims at James Town. They all died or went back to Europe prior to the arrival of the first cows. When the cows came….America thrived. Cows were the foundation for the STOCK Exchange. Live stock that is.
Your comments are cruel and baseless. Please get educated or go back to the planet or mother ship you fell off of. Also….get a real name and come out so we can see how you are. You could be John Sheehan’s secretary for all we know.
“It is truly horrifying what you do”. Who was that comment intended for?
I sleep very well at night. I have no problem at all producing raw milk. I know that raw milk saves lives. I know that raw milk has the secret support of the best scientists in the world ( UCLA cancer researchers and UC Davis milk genonimcs experts all love raw milk not to mention other centers around the world that study raw milk ). The bacteria in the colon and intestines are the very basis of our functioning immune system. Try living with out them. The Americans that have tried recently…die of C-Diff. Fecal transplants save their lives. No vital living Shit….no life!!
The idea that bacteria from the colon are somehow horrifying is the very reason America is super sick. \
Their is a saying that is very appropriate…”cleaniless may be next to godliness, but sterility is a prelude to death”.
Amym, you are new to this blog…please visit our good friend Dr. Bonnie Bassler at Princeton University and get some bacterial education. You need to learn to appreciate the critical roll of bacteria in and on our bodies.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVfmUfr8VPA
You will sicken and die quickly if your bacteria went missing. The DNA in the bacteria of your body run your body. You are a bacteriosapien with 98% of all DNA in your body originating in the bacteria not your human cells. You and I spent 3 billion dollars to find this out ( human genome project NIH ).
Respect bacteria or pay the ultimate price.
It lowered pathogens. It did not kill them?
If it did not kill them then where did they go?
Did they jump out of the petri dish and run away?
Ken
Despite the fact that OPDC raw milk made my child ill, I commend Mark for creating RAWMI. The intentions are good and farmers need information on best practices for producing raw milk as safe as humanly possible. The problem I have is that Mark is a great salesman. I hope you do not get lulled into the belief that RAMI will 100% prevent outbreaks on your farm. No doubt it will decrease the chances, but not eliminate them. Marks own farm is evidence that outbreaks do happen, despite best practices.
I believe a progressive raw milk farmer will not fear educating raw milk customers about the pathogen reality of consuming this product, especially when choosing raw milk for children. Parents need to go into this venture with eyes wide open. If a person cant name all the pathogens that can find their way into raw milk and the illnesses that can result, they are not an informed customer and should not be giving it to their children. The very reason you have RAWMI certification is because of the real danger of these pathogens.
You have insurance to assure families that, if they do get sick from your milk, their medical bills will be covered, as well as your own family being protected from liability.
I do have a couple of questions for you. Have you ever mentally gone through the process in your head as to how you would feel if your milk caused a child to develop HUS? And if there was an outbreak on your farm, would you continue producing raw milk?
Mary
http://www.news-medical.net/health/What-is-Dysentery.aspx
Furthermore, Lewin (2001) reports that “… consumption of fresh, warm camel feces has been recommended by Bedouins as a remedy for bacterial dysentery; its efficacy (probably attributable to the antibiotic subtilisin from Bacillus subtilis) was confirmed by German soldiers in Africa during World War II.” In addition, sheep feces contain the same antibiotic as camel feces. There are numerous reports from German soldiers of the effectiveness of sheep and camel feces as cures for dysentery.
Ken
So much for the slogan eat shit or die.
Ken
such as the sworn testimony of Dr Ron Hull … received as an expert by the committee of the California Legislature, in the hearing wherein he stated that raw milk “out-competes” the pathogens introduced in to milk. Take a look at the credentials of Dr Hull, Phd, before you fold -in to this forum your patented poison. Dr Hull headed the Australian govt. dairy research bureau for a decade / now in private practice, advising commercial outfits how to produce and deliver dairy products, safely. He’s one of the very best-informed scientists in the world on this topic. His testimony in 2008 was, that, ‘sometimes a batch of yoghurt will contain a strain of pathogen. So the company just lets it sit, til the friendly bacteria out-live the pathogen’ = my paraphrase. Page and line #s from the official transcript, available for those who are sincerely interested in the truth of the matter.
One good thing, I see, M M Mc : since Hallowe’en is over, you’ve at least dropped your mask … pretending to be at all tolerant of REAL MILK. I had you pegged as trouble-maker from the start
Raw HUMAN milk, just to clarify. That is from their own mother. Whose butt is not near her nipple. Who doesn’t sit in her own poop and get it on her nipple. Just to clarify.
These are the clarifications that need to be made to better inform new mothers who are interested in raw milk, Mark.
Mark is very afraid of people who use pseudonyms, which happens all over the internet, btw. I highly doubt he respects Amanda and Mary. I hope he’s afraid of them. Welcome. I rather enjoy your brand of fire and brimstone. I hope you are not a space alien. But if you are, thanks for taking a special interest in “attacking” raw milk, rather than, say, keeping people in poverty, keeping the hungry hungry or the increasing and expanding the wars of the world. Nope, I think you are human, because we seem to be doing a mighty good job at killing ourselves already.
Kristen P
Jack Woodall is director of the Nucleus for the Investigation of Emerging Infectious Diseases in the Institute of Medical Biochemistry at Brazil’s Federal University of Rio de Janeiro.
He states, We probably haven’t seen the last of imaginative uses for dung.
Ken
Ken
The heat resistant and probiotic nature of the fecal organism bacillus subtillis found in cattle manure, may explain why pasteurized milk could have an inhibitory effect on certain organisms.
Ken
Yes, Mark is a great salesman and he also has an authentic heart of gold for the production of safe raw milk. RAWMI is a service from his heart, and I say service in the true sense of the word, servant to all of us. He does not profit from any of the unlimited help he gives.
And my farm is RAWMI listed not because of what Mark McAfee or RAWMI did for my farm, but because of my very high standards I already had in place, my personal education and my incredibly hard work. And I mean hard work beyond anything I’ve ever done in my life. RAWMI does not make my milk safe, I am 100% in charge of and responsible for that, not anyone else or any other organization. Like he said earlier, RAWMI is only as good as its listed dairy farmers. The people attracted to being listed will be high-achievers, smart, thoughtful, responsible and concerned producers – – women and men like me. No salesmanship needed.
Your last question… I must be quick – time to milk the cows 🙂 Anyway, there is a big difference in raw milk – not all raw milk is the same. I am far more likely to make someone sick from serving them any food I bought at our local store than anything produced on our farm. I know this because of my practices. If you do the things we do in our raw milk production process every single time you milk, you will produce safe raw milk every single time. Not everyone is doing these things – they need to learn. RAWMI is a great place to get training and mentoring. Feel free to email me directly if you have more questions… this blog is getting pretty lengthy. champoegcreamery@gmail.com
We live in a culture where we expect the government to take care of telling us what’s safe and we’ve gotten lazy about doing our own research. People need to take charge of their food. I have friends with kids with life-threatening allergies — they question every parent, every snack, every bit of food their child ingests – who made it, how, with what foods, where did those foods come from… on and on, interrogating the heck out of every morsel. This is how the public should think when purchasing raw milk right now. I tell people I cannot fulfill all the demands of raw milk in our area, so I give them a long list of questions to take to other farms before purchasing.
I look ahead 5 and 10 years and this will be in place – We will have RAWMI and other organizations “listing” and mentoring raw milk producers and we will have a large pool of safe raw milk, and the ones who refuse to evolve and improve will gradually disappear. It’s important to have that vision – – we are in the midst of the growing pains now, and this will get better. It’s terribly unfortunate that people/children have to suffer through these growing pains. If I thought getting rid of raw milk would work and be the right answer, I’d support it. But since I know raw milk will not go away and is only increasing in popularity, and is the answer to life-threatening health problems for many, the best option is to focus all our efforts on making it safe.
I say….”Manure was Framed!!”.
Mark
http://www.amazon.com/Holy-Shit-Managing-Manure-Mankind/dp/1603582517/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1351878432&sr=1-1&keywords=Holy+Shit
Really, the machinations of your mind are just full of contempt. Save it.
First & foremost, cows DO NOT naturally lie in their own excrement. They are very fussy about that. This is one of the reasons wise farmers have always moved them from pasture to pasture. The only exception are with the poor cows in CAFOS where they are forced to lie in their excrement as there is no other place for them to lay.
I don’t tell you my whole name because you scare me. You say you sleep very well at night, but I know the things that you put those families through when they got sick on your farm. If you can live with yourself after the hell that you put those people through (those CHILDREN through), then you are obviously a sociopath, and I would be afraid that you are so hell bent on making a profit that you might turn into a violent person.
Unfortunately it is going to take even more outbreaks before you guys finally realize that raw milk simply is not worth the risk. That is, of course, if you “believe” the stories when they come out. I happen to know Jilly’s story is real, as it was plastered all over the news here in Oregon, along with the 18ish other cases associated with the outbreak.