There Is Only One Conclusion to Draw from the Government's Raw Milk "Data"
The more one analyzes the government's data about raw milk, the more suspect the data become.
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) obviously put a lot of time, thought, and energy into that 66-slide presentation that I and others assessed a few days ago. We found a number of holes in the presentation, such as mis-statements about the possibility of rabies being spread through raw milk.
Now Mary McGonigle-Martin has completed an even more in-depth assessment of the presentation (in her comment on yesterday's post), and her results confirm the initial impressions several individuals had as to be nearly shocking. Not only are they inaccurate in describing the situation in California last September in which four children became ill, but they mix and match data so as to skew it toward their viewpoint (as in the use of illness from Mexican raw milk cheese).
It's important to remember that these are supposedly skilled scientists accumulating and presenting this data--scientists whose salaries we are paying. It is becoming clear that these individuals are much less scientists than propagandists. As such, they are a disgrace to their profession.
Fortunately, their "data" are increasingly coming under public scrutiny, not only on this blog, but in more local media. One recent case is in North Carolina, where a journalist with an alternative paper challenged the blatherings of a local agriculture official in an excellent article. Among the highlights are that raw milk gets blamed on a kneejerk basis for stomach illnesses, that deli meats are a more worrisome source of listeria than raw milk, and that today's raw milk isn't the same for the most part as the raw milk that caused problems a century ago.
Most intriguing to me about this article is the refutation to the scientists' argument that there is no data to suggest raw milk has nutritional benefits over pasteurized milk, via citation of recent studies. It's the same kind of argument offered by the scientists about immunization. Isn't the basis of the scientific approach maintaining an open mind?
The Complete Patient
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I think the FDA is counting the Mexican cheese cases in their data, because they can argue that the cases happened on US soil. Although an argument can be made either way to include them, I think she has a good point.
It may be useful to look at the reasons why people want to consume raw milk products. Since raw milk isn't addictive, like alcohol or heroin, it must be because there is some perceived or actual benefit from doing so. In the case of Mexicans consuming raw milk cheese in New York City, it may represent a connection to home.
Unfortunately, as soon as a profit motive is introduced, a disconnect appears. Quality and pride of workmanship are subsumed by greed. We can see an example of this in the attempts by two large companies in France to get the AOC to change the manner in which camembert can be manufactured. Even though both companies will still make the camembert in the traditional way in smaller, tightly-controlled batches (i.e. the way everything worth having or consuming should mindfully and caringly be made), they also want a mass-market product they can be sloppier with but still make lots of money by the sheer volume of it. How repugnant!
I would argue that most food poisoning is caused by processing huge batches of things in a facility where people are over-worked and under-paid, whether it be ground beef, chicken, lettuce, peanut butter, or spinach.
www.nytimes.com/2007/06/20/dining/20chee.html?em&ex=1182571200&en=82ea1b2305af7a38&ei=5070
Thank you for your kudos on my raw milk piece. I was terribly pleased with the editing and the willingness of the paper to run such a straighforward article without scare tactics that drinking it could be deadly.
I was reminded of the dangers of processed "fresh" foods just yesterday while at the checkout counter of Trader Joe's. I saw a notice about TJ bagged fresh diced onions being possibly contaminated. This was one of the products I used to buy all the time and toss in the freezer to have on hand when I needed to save time with cooking. Long before the bagged spinach outbreak I had second thoughts about these "convenience" items I was using and realized I could nearly as easily chop up a quantity of onions at one time (the food processor especially takes little time), bag the chopped onions, and freeze them. Self-chopped onions are cheaper, too, but not by much, so I guess that's why I used to be seduced by the convenience.
I also continue to be incredibly impressed with Mary's courage, intellectual curiosity, and continued desire to more fully understand *all* the factors in the raw dairy political, economic, and scientific/medical issues. That sort of courage is rare, indeed.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. ...those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
Regulators, whether truly conscience-driven or wielding as a weapon the appearance of being conscience-driven, are tormenting good Americans every day. That so many of us are blind to what they have done to our freedoms is sad and outrageous.
The response from an epidemiologist to Suzanne's article about raw milk <http://www.indyweek.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A155882> is typical. He mentions a couple of worst-case raw-milk related disease incidents, then says, "I could not in good conscience ever recommend to anyone the consumption of unpasteurized milk, cheese, or other dairy products." Set aside for a moment the all-too-common data mangling in this debate (thank you Mary McGonigle-Martin for pointing out more of that) and the deeper issues of immune and other health effects (positive from raw milk, negative from diminished natural exposure and excessive antibiotic use) that the epidemiologist ignores. I wonder, does his conscience not mourn the many cases of pastuerized dairy disease? Or vegetable related disease? Or the king of all, meat-related disease? Does he earnestly warn us away from those things?
Growing pressures from government busy-bodies over raw dairy (which, not incidentally, has been healthfully supporting mankind for millenia) and regulation's ugly sister, official scare-mongering, is worse than dangerous. It is harming our health, fouling our economy, and making criminals out of good Americans who are forced into the shadows to do what they know is right.
The "prevailing wisdom" has a miserable track record in history. God help any system that enforces it with an iron hand.
Suzanne…you did a great job on the raw milk story.
Dave…I understand your point and I think it would have been more powerful if the epidemiologist had made a statement about ecoli 0157:H7 contamination in general, regardless of the source. Watching the suffering of person with ecoli 0157:H7 is horrific in itself, then tag on HUS….it’s beyond unbearable. I don’t know why of all things this comes to my mind right now, but Chris’ testicles became the size of a grapefruit. Of course we were quite alarmed (and so was poor Chris), but the nurses were acting if it was no big deal. One nurse told us that this was nothing compared to a man’s testicles in the same situation. They grow to the size of a basketball. Just a bit of trivia on one of the many challenges when developing HUS.
Gary....great point! Out of curiosity, did the cows die from kidney failure?
Ecoli 0157:H7 produce contamination has affected many more people than raw milk contamination. I read somewhere that all the outbreaks involved prepackaged lettuce and spinach. Why has the government still allowed bagged produce? Why hasn’t it been banned? After all the reading I’ve done on this subject, my chances of getting ecoli 0157:H7 from lettuce or spinach is considerably higher than from raw milk.
In a 5 year period, only 19 people became ill from raw milk (1 outbreak)
In a 10 year period, 409 people became ill and 2 deaths from lettuce (19 outbreaks)
The recent spinach outbreak, 204 people became ill and there were 3 deaths (1 outbreak)
You are an unusual person indeed, for you continue pressing toward the sane middle ground after having been pushed by the circumstance of Chris’s illness toward the fringe. That is one of the reasons you are so well appreciated by those reading this blog.
Once bitten it is tempting to look to systems for protection from the source of the bite. That is certainly appropriate at times, but we must never lose our perspective in the process because systemic controls carry so many harmful side effects. Many of the negatives are short term, for example, inadvertent control of good things because we’ve misidentified the bite's source, or unfairness and suffering resultant from special interests manipulating controls to their benefit. All that is bad, but not nearly as bad as the long-term consequence: Regulatory oppression, a cruel and relentless freedom stealer.
In this fallen world, freedoms naturally edge toward license. Systems given freedoms are no different, because they have no life other than what we impart. They move to excess like any man, but they have more power than any man. That’s why I so lament the growth of government and business (and their nexus!). They can and do create large-scale havoc. And when they get their hands on our food--and they have, clearly—watch out!
Lastly, though we all know that there is no perfect protection from any ill, we pretend that our systems can give us that perfect shield, and then (again Mary, this is where you show yourself refreshingly different) squeal when they fail us. System owners are happy to oblige in the fantasy. Why not? It gives them more power. In her article Suzanne commented that knowing your food’s source gives one a measure of protection (a notion also disparaged by the epidemiologist). Suzanne is right. I would add that connecting food production directly to the consumer is also a more humane way of achieving food safety. It’s not a perfect way, and I do not advocate abandoning all systems. I merely mean to point out that we can do better by being reasonably wary of our tendencies, and that there are tremendous benefits to be reaped by decentralizing, and by taking our lifestyle cues from natural, rather than manmade systems.
<<The "prevailing wisdom" has a miserable track record in history. God help any system that enforces it with an iron hand.>>
This is my quote of the day. Exceptionally well said.
I understand the big picture of each persons own immune system and how this affects ones exposure to this deadly bacteria (0157:H7), but I feel strongly that people need to be educated about all of this. No one should ever have to suffer what we went through!!!!!
I don’t believe anyone on this blog would be willing to test the theory with one of their own children or themselves….give them contaminated raw milk or spinach and see if their system is protected because they have been eating a healthy diet.
There are many who suffer terribly in this world yet despite our efforts to alleviate suffering we will suffer none the less.
Many would say that I am being reckless and irresponsible by feeding raw milk to my children or by failing to have them vaccinated. This so called “contamination theory” has been well tested by all those who have consciously chosen to feed themselves and their children raw milk.
Ken Conrad
I’m not referring to any of you on this blog. Everyone is educated about raw milk…the health benefits as well as the possible bacterial issues. Everyone’s source is from a responsible farmer (and of course you fall into this category) who raises cows on pasture fed grass, no antibiotics, etc… I’m pretty confident you don’t have cows that are contaminated with ecoli 0157:H7. By the way, how many cows to do you have?
Ken…would you be willing to buy “suitcase” cheese from a Mexican vendor and give it to your children knowing it was contaminated with ecoli :0157:H7? Would anyone on this blog be willing to take that chance? There is a HUGE difference between drinking milk from your own cows or neighbor’s cows and eating Mexican suitcase cheese!
This is the education I’m taking about. I’m just fixated on this one deadly pathogen! Whether contamination occurs in raw milk (very rare), in produce (not rare at all), or in beef (very common) the average person (noone on the blog is an average person) living in America needs to be educated about ecoli 0157:H7 contamination. It’s seems to me to be a black and white issue. This deadly pathogen is caused by contaminated cow poop. How and why ecoli 0157:H7 evolved is a story that needs to be told. Along with this education would be information about building a healthy immune system.
I don’t think you’re reckless raising your own cows, feeding your family from these cows and not vaccinating your children. You’re a brave, committed man living by his spiritual principles. I admire the hell out of you for that.
I delivered the cows to an old homestead which she and her husband had recently purchased about 4-5 miles from my own farm. The buildings were all built out of logs and probably dated back to the early 1800’s.
After having unloaded the cows she invited me into her home to share a cup of tea with her and her husband. Not only was I served tea but homemade bread with cultured butter and fresh cheese as well. Her home was clean and tidy yet as I looked around I couldn’t help but be amazed by the fact that there was at least a half dozen or so cheese sacks hanging from the ceiling as well as cheese cultures in various stages of development. She was also in the process of making bread and had clearly accumulated far more then her and her husband could comfortably consume.
As it turns out this couple had established for themselves a small out of the way business (albeit illegal) in order to supply ethnic communities in the Toronto area with fresh farm products. Once a week her husband would load up the station wagon with eggs butter cheese and bread etc. and deliver them to restaurants and private homes in the Toronto area.
Your fears Mary are genuine in that you believe e-coli 0157:H7 to be responsible for causing disease. I do not share this belief however. These organisms exist and there is no avoiding them. We are rather along with our unique genetic qualities, victims of circumstance. Our attempts to control will more then likely cause more harm then good.
Organisms such as e-coli 0157:H7 are simply reacting to individual circumstances which prompt them to become virulent and wreak havoc with the host. The insidious nature of these organisms a result of their encoded survival instinct, is such that any attempt control them will be overcome.
I share Dr. Robert Mendelsohn’s view that rather then suppress and control the symptoms that result due to sickness we should allow them to progress and serve their intended purpose. There are exceptions however but for the most part this methodology is sound. When a fever results due to sickness monitor it if think you need to, provide comfort and adequate fluid intake but don’t try and control it with drugs. The confusing signals, chemical imbalances and toxic effects that results from the use of these drugs is relative to each individual and could very well result in serious complications.
If offered I would eat this Mexican style cheese despite the FDA label, just as I’ll eat shell fish that has gone beyond a day old and despite the fact that my wife considers it deadly and won’t touch it. I guess that’s why she refers to me as a wolf man.
Ken Conrad
Control is a relative word. What you see as control, I view as prevention. We are both right. Our backgrounds cause this divide. Your education is in biology and mine is in sociology and psychology. You grew up on a farm (I’m assuming in the country) and I grew up a poor city girl raised by a single parent.
Completely different life experiences, different educational backgrounds, but we both found our way to this blog. Thanks for sharing your perspective on life. It has worked well for you. I always appreciate all of your comments.