When I spoke at the Weston A. Price Foundation’s Wise Traditions Conference a couple weeks ago, I recounted the mixed bag of legal and legislative results on the raw milk front. Here, briefly, is what I described:
- Legal actions. There have been a couple of important victories in Ohio advancing the cause of herdshares and allowing the use of raw milk as pet food. But the effort to fight California’s AB 1735 in court didn’t work well–the judge, after issuing a temporary restraining order, eventually refused to extend it and told the parties to work it out legislatively, which resulted in the SB 201 effort. In New York, the judge in the Meadowsweet Dairy case has just ruled that herdshares are illegal and all dairies producing raw dairy are subject to oversight by New York’s Department of Agriculture and Markets.
- Legislative actions. The most intense legislative action has involved the California push for SB 201, to replace the onerous AB 1735’s strict coliform standard. That push had support from a prominent legislator–an important first for any state–and moved right along, with almost no opposition, until it reached the governor’s desk, and was vetoed. Other legislative actions, such as in Maryland, have made some progress, but died in the end.
- Civil disobedience. Civil disobedience works best when lots of sympathizers join in and the government is forced to re-examine its approach. The two main actors in this arena are Mark Nolt in Pennsylvania and Michael Schmidt in Canada. Both these farmers have stood valiantly and bravely, but ultimately alone in the farmer community in trying to establish their right to distribute raw milk directly to consumers.
- Publicity. This area has experienced probably the most progress. The media used to be totally one-sided in reporting on raw milk, accepting government press releases about milk contamination and illnesses at face value. There are now other blogs reporting on raw milk, and major publications and television networks have joined in—not always favorably, but certainly less unfavorably than was once the case.
It’s in the publicity that we gain the most important benefit, which is education. It is only through education, not only of consumers, but of legislators and judges, that progress will quicken, and rights expand.
However, it is clear that the education will only work if consumers are walking the walk. As the double whammies of the federal court case against Mark McAfee and the New York court decision against Meadowsweet Dairy make clear, we are dealing with people who are desperate–perhaps more desperate as time goes on and they see public attitudes shift–to carry out the agendas of Big Ag and Big Pharma, and will stop at nothing to accomplish their agendas, including:
- Dishonesty, when they say that all raw milk contains pathogens, and they know it doesn’t;
- Misrepresentation, when they say people have been dying from drinking raw milk, when they know the only deaths came from imported bathtub cheeses made from raw milk, which serious raw milk producers disavow;
- Interfering in private transactions between consenting adults when they argue, and a judge agrees, that groups of individuals can’t buy whole food directly from farmers;
- Engaging in censorship by ordering small sellers of nutritional products not to post links to web sites that provide information on the benefits of real food.
I think Mark McAfee said it best following my previous post, as one dairyman to another, when he advised Barb and Steve Smith to stay the course. I can’t tell people whose business has been badly damaged what to do, but I can encourage the Meadowsweet Dairy LLC Ithaca shareholders to get off their butts and make the trip to Meadowsweet and buy more milk than they ever bought from the Smiths. If the Smiths decide to get out of the raw milk business, these consumers need to find other raw dairy farmers and head to those places, or else the court case really does become a victory for the authorities. The same goes for consumers elsewhere. I know it’s a pain to travel an hour or two to farms and buy raw milk and pastured eggs and grass-fed meat, but it needs to be done. Organize carpools with friends. Put a dent in the businesses of the Wal-Marts and Krogers and Pfizer and Novarta.
They want us to be sick and dependent and in debt…and under their total control. But as Blair McMorran describes in a comment on my previous post, it’s not just a matter of standing up to injustice, intimidation, and morally shameful behavior. It’s a matter of our health and the health of our families. When we’re healthy, they lose.
Is there someone we can write or call regarding the horrible injustice done to the Smith’s? I am a member of a herdshare in New York and I don’t know what I would do without my milk and eggs and grass-fed meat from my farmer. I do drive an hour to get these goods and I have never once minded the drive.
Reading your posts and the responses from folks like Mark McAfee makes me want to take more action than just supporting my local farmer. What else can I do?
And yes, I already donate to the FTCLDF – on a monthly basis!
Thanks,
Jen
On the health side, the ethos of our time is, in essence, anti-health. We are making ourselves sick by contaminating ourselves with unnatural chemicals, diminishing the nutrient content of our foods, attempting to sustain ourselves with manufactured, grain-based, industrial carbohydrates that alter our hormonal balances, and by destroying the natural balance of microbes in our soil and in our bodies that would otherwise keep us strong and resilient.
One the rights side, we have slipped into a system whereby more and more decisions are removed from individuals and directed and controlled instead by centralized systems.
This is not a pretty picture to say the least, and what makes it so disheartening is that the average American has no idea that its happening. So, as David points out, publicity, which when truthful equates to education, is going to be an effective change agent.
One might think that astounding increases in deadly diseases like asthma, diabetes, obesity, heart disease, and cancer, plus galloping increases in autism, allergies, etc., plus the awful sensitivity so many have to infectious disease, plus the outrageous monetary and human cost of modern medical care, would be an effective wake-up call. Likewise the trampling of individual rights by regulators and legislators, sometimes in cruel and brazen fashion, sometimes even with armed, government-sponsored thugs, ought to be opening eyes (and mouths). But theres a lot of inertia out there. And as more and more power is concentrated into massive business and government entities, the mess becomes that much harder to overcome. This is going to be a long battle, perhaps one that will not gain traction until we bankrupt our health and finances so completely that we have no more energy to prop up our artificial systems.
Thank God for the internet, and grassroots activism, and for friends, and for the innate curiosity of the human mind.
(How great it would be to live next door to miguel!)
I too would encourage the Smiths, and others who can do it, to persevere and do what is possible under the law to make raw milk and (where possible) raw dairy products available. If worst comes to worst, consumers can learn to make the raw dairy products themselves so long as they have a source of raw milk. That’s not the best solution, since people are busy and the value-added products can help struggling farmers even more than the raw milk, but we do what we can do. Active and vocal support of these farmers, when and even before they get targeted for enforcement, is also critical. Consumers should not underestimate the power of insistent, polite, reasoned and well-informed letter-writing, faxing, emailing, phoning and button-holing conversations and advocacy with all levels of government and even bureaucracy.
That’s the acting locally part. The thinking globally part (or at least, thinking state-wide or nationally) necessarily gets political. Vocal and active political action, ranging from your state representative – and perhaps even taking on the county farm bureau (the lion’s den) – to national political pressure, are critically necessary. I am hopeful about opportunities for national political progress (i.e., killing off 21 CFR 1240.61which is the interstate ban) and letting the FDA get on with truly important work hunting down mega-problems in national and international food systems. However, I am also worried about increasing pressures which are on the march for government regulation. The choice for heading up USDA and ultimately FDA (which is under HHS, reportedly to be headed by Daschle) will be indicators. We should all be writing whomever we can about the need to get FDA (raw dairy) and USDA (NAIS) out of the local farming scene.
It’s not complicated. We just want the choice to access raw milk and raw dairy intra- and interstate, and farmers need the choice – a real choice, not the present cynical "voluntary" program – to stay out of NAIS. So, label the raw dairy and warn us about it – we can take it. It is critical to the viability of small farms and to the health of their customers that these choices survive and grow to become widely and freely accessible.
You are all dead on point….
I look to the FDA action against OPDC as a godsend. Where else can we get a hearing in front of a great federal judge and attempt to show CFR 1240.61 for what it is.
Sally and I looked into this kind of legal action four years ago and the quote was hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Raw milk is not made safer by a state line control. It is made less safe…because of "moo shine running" and untested raw milk. Ron Paul even saw this for what it was.
No other food has this control placed upon it that I know of….if someone can think of a food that is not allowed across any state line by mandate of the FDA…please tell me.
Lets turn lemons into lemonade. The FDA and other actions create movements and ignite passion…but only if we heed the call to action and move on it. If we shy away we lose this free media attention and marketing opportunity.
OPDC is about to ignite the issues in CA with a "stickering" campaign on all of our products to fund the FTCLDF actions and to perhaps overturn CFR 1240.61 ( the legal fund is meeting this next week to discuss this issue and the issue is still not decided yet ).
As producers we must call the media and invite the consumers to tell their stories of healing. This is a huge story. We must tell it over and over again.
Meadow Sweet please do not give up… just evolve. Do not let the Karate punches hit you…step to the side and let all that negative energy pass you by.
That is how OPDC survives and thrives and you can too.
Mark McAfee
Steve has a number of excellent and insightful suggestions, as usual. I did a little digging and Tom Daschle is evidently in Washington DC at the firm Altston + Bird LLP, and his email address is apparently tom.daschle@alston.com. I’m going to try sending him an email in the morning and try making the case for local foods and raw milk, and I’d encourage others to do the same.
They have done a lot of work and used up a lot of energy setting up a system of commerce.Picture a game of Monopoly using the globe as the gameboard.They have all of us convinced that we must play this game with them.They own the board and all of the tokens and cards.They make all of the rules and can change them whenever they want.We can’t win .Everything is stacked against us.But still,for some reason,we beg for permission to play.We jump through the hoops,apply for the lisences,get the degrees and permits.We try to play by their rules,but the rules are so numerous and contradictory that it is not possible.We feel guilty for not knowing the rules or for ignoring some of them.Feeling guilty,we are easily intimidated and separated from our property and rights.Some of us join in and help deceive and rob others.
We gave the officials authority over us when we begged to be allowed to join in the game.We didn’t have to play their game.They will threaten us if we don’t,but it is all bluff. It is still true that we are free to live without participating in their game of commerce.
When we choose not to play the game the only LAW we need to know and follow is the "golden rule".
Miguel is correct as well, it is just like a Monoploy game with their changing rules to suit their agenda. Besides their laws and just as important to them is their monopoly money aka fiat paper bank notes printed out of thin air and worth nothing but the IOUs of future generations. Are they shamlessly stealing from unborn children?
It is reported that the bailouts [thefts, give aways] have reached $7.7 trillion dollars the national debt has passed $10.7 trillion dollars. Some are also warning that the the AAA debt rating of the US is in danger of being downgraded. Are we now already insolvent and if so who did it and why?
REAL FOOD AND REAL MONEY DEFEATS THEM.
" DEFICIT SPENDING IS SIMPLY A SCHEME FOR HIDDEN CONFISCATION OF WEALTH"
Alan Greenspan 1966
I sent him an email explaining the paradigm and how sustainable medicine grows from whole food nutrition not more FDA drugs being consumed. The cover story of Time Magazine this week gave America a failing medical check up.
I begged him to follow is leaders challenge of thinking change and being change.
I invited him to lead America to a new a better place that starts at small cash rich farms that bring whole foods to their local communities. I explained the real stats on raw milk safety and how it is very safe when it is tested and regulated properly, and justly.
We should all try and ask Tom to be the change and lead the FDA away from greed based corrupt drug pushing. The TV drug adds are criminal. Ask him to look at the Canadian and EU drug models. TV drug pushing ads are not allowed ( from what I have heard and understand ).
It is illegal to push drugs….instead doctors push prevention and nutrition as a bigger part of health policy. I ask think that looking at the Russian Space program and their command that none of their Cosmonauts eat processed foods and eat Raw Milk Kefir and Raw Milk…says alot. I asked him to look to the queen of England, she drinks raw milk.
Push forward….Obama can only hear things if we say them, clearly, passionately, and intellegently. He says he is listening…..if he knew America could start regrowing financially with small farms ( a starting point in economics )with 25 cows making $35,000 per month for a single family that would restart America from the grass roots….the medical impact would be even greater….all from Main Street. We do not need nor want a bail out….we need to just be left alone to feed ourselves…that is it. The FDA needs to butt out of nutritional choices for its citizens.
Obama is struggling to find examples of Americans doing well in this economic horror story….raw milk is that story…Go tell it!!
It would also employ lots of Americans in our bright new sustaibale future of wholefood nutrition and true health and true real wealth.
That is my America…
Mark McAfee
Well, we say the same thing about raw milk, minute amounts and not a risk. Someday, with enough publicity, maybe they will listen!
Kimberly
http://www.hartkeonline.blogspot.com
It serves greed through its revolving door.
At the bottom the FDA is filled with hard working, good, well meaning people that are confused and frustrated by the system and some even fight it. Some of the the FDA staffers that I know even drink raw milk.
Remember…there is a raw milk "moooo shine" drop on capitol hill DC.
Change the culture at the top and all changes very quickly below.
Tom Dashle needs to hear from all of you.
Mark McAfee
Yes indeed.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/25/fda-finds-traces-of-melam_n_146536.html
In Oct they didn’t know what level was safe, so now that 3 BIG companies baby formula have been found with the poison, it is nothing to "overreact" about and keep feeding it to your babies…. Tsk tsk any amount of poison is wrong. Shame on the govt. These companies make more than just formula, what else is it and other toxins in?
This along with the past fiascos from the govt entities, may be used to show the public just how the continued ineptness is.
And how is a single family supposed to get the money to buy 25 cows @ $1500+ a piece? You mentioned this in another thread, that the unemployed people should start cow shares. How are they to finance this? How does one suddenly make several hundred customers appear like that? You make it sound so simple and matter of fact.
Pete
http://www.wsfa.com/Global/story.asp?S=9416273
"I can tell you if the’re successful in putting this policy in place it’ll put our farms out of business" said Agriculture Commissoner Ron Sparks.
We will have clean air to breathe [no cow gas] but what shall we eat?
The ONLY successful WAR being conducted by TPTB is their WAR on the small family farms and their daily looting and redistribution of any wealth we and our progeny have left. The bailout number being reported has jumped in one day another trillion dollars to $8.5 trillion.
Hyperinflation will likely result on the back side of this grand theft but it will matter little if there are no farms left where we may purchase our real food from.
I am not a scifi fan but in the future will TPTB issue us a blue pill, a red pill or maybe even a green pill?
4 years ago on Thanksging day we began our journey out of the utter darkness of this system via the truth of real food, but raw dairy is the major focal point of it all, the benefits we have reaped cannot be put in words.
We can be very thankful this day for raw dairy for it is a gift from GOD we are on the right side on this issue, TPTB are not.
First of All…Happy Thanksgiving,
The concept of easily starting a raw milk micro dairy is more a dream than an easy reality. Starting a raw milk micro dairy is not easy. My comment is that if it is a passion and a dream the elements of market success are definitly there.
The trouble with America today is that if it is not easy most people do not consider it.
A pioneering reinventing spirit brought on by some desparation, add some inspiration and mostly perspiration, the internet, some interested cow share owners and you get lots of work every day and the joy of live calf birth, delicious raw milk,and the love of consumers.
Not to mention a very good paycheck with every cent earned.
The source of money can be from:
USDA first farmer grants
FSA loans
Credit cards
Cow share agreements
Some one elses cows and dairy were you work to earn a share of the milk by milking parttime. Do not take money take raw milk instead at the CWT sold on contract plus a little. Mark it up and sell it raw with your own label etc…you bottle and you sell.
A families farmstead that is no longer functional.
Rent a few acres of land from a friend in exchange for future shares in the dairy.
I never said it would be easy….I do say it will be rewarding and successful.
If it starts with a connection with consumers all wanting raw dairy when there is non…all it takes is leadership that does not give up.
A business plan is what you need. There is plenty of money arround with grants and FSA loans specifically designed for first time farmers. These are designed as small farm loans. Tell them it is for artisan cheese if they are scared of raw milk.
Step #1….Establish a list of raw milk consumers in an area with a nice population that have no raw milk. WAP helps with this. If you make it…they will want it….raw milk sells itself with word of mouth.
Step #2 …Design a business plan arround this potential demand.
Step #3 Start a website to describe the dream and invite consumers to be involved and set a date that raw milk will start flowing. This makes the dream real.
Step #4 Start with some land that is rented if you can not buy it.
Step #5…Build the most very basic milk facility….Milk with a bucket and chill in glass jars. Use ice water to chill and do it extremely basically.
Step #6 Buy your first cow and start selling raw milk….
Step #7 Grow the dream!!
Step #8 You have actually achieved your dream….you are just small.
Pete…it is a matter of passion and not stopping until it happens. Perhaps the easiest way would be becoming a work partner with a currently operating dairy that is failing.
Tell the owner about $120 per CWT. That should change the culture and get some interest flowing. You become the unpaid manager and take your pay in raw milk or shares….
There are a million ways to do this. None easy….all extremely rewarding.
Mark McAfee
#9. Reach out to local and state regulators (as a new raw dairyperson) right from the beginning, and try to establish a relationship with them; learn the rules/statutes for that jurisdiction and try to live/work within them (even if some don’t appear to make sense – all businesses work within various regulations)
#10. Before starting a new raw dairy operation, learn about the potential food safety risks and mitigation strategies. Consider working with experts within state dairy programs and/or university experts to set-up food safety protocols appropriate for the size/type of farm and processing facility.
And….get a lot of liability insurance 🙂
Happy Thanksgiving.
I think there is a bit more to selling raw milk than just milking the cow. If anyone is considering such an option, I would contact Dee Creek Farm in the state of Washington to learn from their mistakes. They were new to the raw milk business and poisoned their customers with E.coli 0157:H7. If Im not mistaken, I think this farm is now selling raw goats milk instead of cows milk.
Of course, the possibility of pathogen contamination is not an acceptable subject to discuss within the raw milk community because it flat out doesnt happen. Therefore, it doesnt need to be addressed or even mentioned. If fact the opposite is stated–pathogens cant be present in raw milk that is produced by cows that roam the pasture eating only grass. Raw milk also has antimicrobial properties that actually kill pathogens, so theres nothing to worry about even when feeding raw milk to infants and children. If you know and trust your farmer, all will be well.
However, if one of your children actually becomes ill after drinking raw milk, he/she probably had a compromised immune system and shouldnt have been drinking raw milk in the first place. You should have known better. Didnt you read the small print on the back of the milk label? Its your own fault. You made the choice knowing the risks involved. Quit complaining. We dont want to hear about these stories. We only want to talk about the stories where peoples health improves.
I found a YouTube series of Mark McAfee speaking with a group of people in San Diego California. http://curezone.com/blogs/fm.asp?i=1288295 Its broken down into eight 10 minute videos. Hes a great public speaker and very inspirational. Id describe him as the raw milk preacher of our day. After listening to him, I see why people would run out and buy raw milk. I do need to mention that in Southern California, OPDC milk is the only raw milk available to buy in the stores.
Heres my question, is it ethical to encourage people to try raw milk for their children without presenting all the facts, both pros and cons, on this subject?
I believe it is unethical. In California, where I live, I would like to see a big warning sign at point of sale above where raw milk is sold in stores. These signs would balance out the facts about raw milk. On this sign, I would like to see a list of possible pathogens that could be in raw milk, along with a list of symptoms and illnesses that could make a person ill if the milk was contaminated with any of these pathogens. I would also like these same warnings to be mandated on any website promoting raw milk. I believe some parents might be interested in knowing their son or daughter could suffer permanent kidney damage from ingesting raw milk contaminated with E.coli 0157:H7.
The raw milk movement can continue to present the positive facts and the point of sale warning signs, website warnings and warning labels on the bottles can present the negative facts. Its a balanced equation of information. All bases are covered.
Happy Thanksgiving to all!
The govt and companies do not disclose the toxins and effects that they inject into society, so why should raw dairy? The govt et al is not ethical. If you require one entity to do so, then it should be required of all entities.
Sylvia — I don’t think we should behave immorally just because someone else does.
Happy Thanksgiving every one!
The point I was trying to make was; if raw dairy should have to post all the potential ill effects, then so should all the other foods that consumers are faced with, those all have hazards too, along with a higher incidence of illnesses. Why single out raw dairy? BTW, I have no problem with signs alerting consumers to potential hazards, I expect to be informed about anything I wish to consume/purchase. The producer/manufacturer is neglegent if they do not disclose known hazards.
Do you watch TV (okay, if not)? But, there is a never ending series of commercials about drugs for everything from erectile dysfuntion to restless leg syndrome. Bob Hayles posted something excellent on this awhile back….drug for leg twitching, but, they disclose on TV and magazine ads… if you take this drug….you might get liver or kidney failure, fall asleep suddenly at work or while driving, hallucinate, or experience ED (but, we got another drug for that…with the following side effects that occur in a small number of people studied….). No offense meant against the ED and RLS folks, but it would seem there is plently of warning (and research) about the drugs available for these problems. And, the makers probably have pretty good insurance policies.
In contrast, per concerned person, the labels about risk are lacking on the dairy case, the Internet, and other places where raw milk is sold….the list of "how to start a raw dairy" given by a modern pioneer in the movement, illustrates this lack of transparency about risk: no comment about pros and cons. If the idea is that there are no cons to raw milk, then relabel the product as snakeoil.
And, I agree with Amanda on this: "I don’t think we should behave immorally just because someone else does. "
There is one big difference between toxins/chemicals in food and pathogens in raw milk. The toxins/chemicals that are in our food supply take a long time to do damage to the human body. It also takes many years of consuming too much sugar and processed grains to develop type two diabetes. When people eat crap, their bodies do eventually break down.
However, contaminated raw milk does immediate damage to the human body. The best case scenario is a week of diarrhea and vomiting. The worse case scenario is death. Others suffer complications beyond diarrhea and vomiting, but less than death.
With contaminated raw milk, children are typically the victims because their immune systems are not completely developed. This is especially true for E.coli 0157:H7 because HUS can be involved.
cp
So it is ok to slowly contaminate your body with toxins/added chemicals but not raw dairy, because if the raw milk has pathogens it can immediately cause illness, whereas the chemical toxicity is a slow death/illness ? I am not understanding that logic.
DMII, obesity, CAD have been on the rise for years, too many children less than 12 yrs old have these conditions. And most likely from thier diet. Not only sugars and processed grains cause these diseases, all the added chemicals are a big factor in the developement. many studies have shown fluoridation is a significant cause of low thyroid, contributes to osteoporsis and other illnessess. Synthroid is one of the (I think) top 10 sold drugs in the USA. Imagine that. The chemical fluoride is not reqired to be added to our diets to maintain health, something that is scraped out of fertilizer smoke stacks is toxic, (lead, cadmium and arsenic), yet our govt allows the industry to dispose of thier wastes in our foods, water, toothpaste,etc. It does keep the money flowing, you ingest it and will need to see an MD and you’ll get RX’d drugs for sure, great money maker and the industry gets rid of thier toxic trash!
Many companies have been slowly poisoning people for years and getting away with it.
Like I said, putting signs up is not a bad thing, just do it with everything. I want to know what is in something before I spend my hard earned money on it. If I don’t know what is in it, then how can I make an informed choice? I want to know where my food came from, how it was raised, what was put on/in it. Unfortunately the majority of people don’t appear to care, until it affects them directly.
So it is ok to slowly contaminate your body with toxins/added chemicals but not raw dairy, because if the raw milk has pathogens it can immediately cause illness, whereas the chemical toxicity is a slow death/illness ? I am not understanding that logic.
I did not say it is O.K. that our bodies are slowly contaminated with toxins/chemicals and a screwed up food supply. I said there is a difference. With foodborne pathogens, there are IMMEDIATE and many times SEVERE consequences to the human body.
On this blog, the topic is narrowed to the possibility of contaminated raw milk, all the different pathogens this food medium can host and the different illnesses that can result Even if this percentage is small, it does happen. Sylvia, you have a tendency to wander to other topics in order to minimize the negative aspects of raw milk consumption.
In a perfect world, I would support signs posted above all junk food. I would want all chemicals listed and where there are derived from. For example, most people would be shocked to know they are eating petroleum. Dyes and additives are nasty. Look at the ingredients in candy like pixie sticks and lollypops. Its all sugar and chemicals. In our American culture, there is something wrong with me because I dont allow my children to eat this poison. Weve got everything backwards.
Having said all of this, some people just dont care. If it tastes good, they will put it in their own and their childrens mouths. In America, we have a right to slowly poison ourselves. Most people know junk food is not good for you, but continue to consume it. No one is making any claims that crappy food is good to put in the human body. No one is selling junk food as the panacea for all that ails us.
On the other hand, raw milk is promoted as something good for you. Some even state it is the most important raw food a person can consume. Its healing to the body. It promotes good health. Some would say it is the foundation of good health. Whats missing is the information about the possibility of pathogen contamination. So in my opinion, there is a huge difference between the need for signs above raw milk versus signs/labels for all processed foods.
cp
I want to make an attempt to personalize a negative raw milk experience for you.
Im guessing by the statements youve made on this blog that you have grown children and possibly grandchildren. If you dont have grandchildren, lets pretend you do.
One of your grandchildren suffers from asthma. Your daughter knows you consume raw milk and she herself has also tried raw milk. However, she is leery about giving raw milk to her children.
You encourage your daughter not to be afraid of raw milk. You give her literature to read from the WAPF real milk website. You talk about the dairy in California that makes milk available for customers throughout the state. You encourage her to read the information on this dairys website. They test the milk for pathogens. None have ever been found. Overtime, and with your granddaughters asthma becoming more severe, you daughter finally decides to try raw milk.
Blindly trusting all the information you have encouraged her to research, your daughter buys raw milk for the first time in late summer; the hottest time of the year. In fact, unbeknownst to her, dairy cows are dying throughout California due to the extreme heat. For the ones that dont die, their bodies are stressed. Cow shed E.coli 0157:H7 when stressed.
The first two weeks of drinking raw milk are positive. Your daughter sees signs of improvement in your granddaughters asthma. She is excited. Could this be the answer to healing Susies asthma? In the beginning of the third week of raw milk consumption, your granddaughter gets a headache and fever. The next day she continues to feel ill and sleeps most of the day. The third day she wakes up with diarrhea which continues aggressively throughout the day. She also starts vomiting. Later that same night, blood appears in her bowel movement. Your daughter and son-in-law are quite alarmed and race her to the emergency room.
Your daughter calls you, Mom, something is terribly wrong with Susie. Were in the emergency room. She has bloody diarrhea. She is also vomiting. Its horrible. Shes in so much pain. It wont let up. The doctor made a decision to put her in the hospital. Were just waiting for all the paperwork to be processed.
Mom Im scared. They are asking all sorts of questions about what she has eaten recently. I had to tell them shes been drinking raw milk. The doctor was shocked. He told me you should never, ever drink raw milk. Hes worried the raw milk may have been contaminated with a pathogen. They are going to runs tests to find out what has made Susie sick.
By the time you arrive at the hospital, Susie has been admitted. You enter Susies room and find her crying because she is in so much pain. You can see she is exhausted from the constant urge to defecate and the pain is so intense it causes her to vomit. Each bowel movement is a watery mess of blood. You helplessly watch your granddaughter suffer like this for 5 long, miserable days. At one point she experiences rectal prolapse fromt he constant urge to push.
It takes a few days to get the results on the fecal cultures. Your daughter is informed that Susie has eaten something contaminated with E.coli 0157:H7. They tell your daughter it is probably the raw milk because she hasnt been exposed to any other high risk foods or sources.
The bottle of raw milk your granddaughter drank was consumed, thrown in the trash and the trash had already been picked up and taken to the dump, so it is not available for testing.
After five days in the hospital, the doctors become alarmed. She now has blood in her urine. They tell your daughter that Susie needs to be admitted to a childrens hospital. She has something called HUS. This is a complication from the Shiga toxin dying off and it damages the red blood cells and clogs the kidneys. Susie may need dialysis and there is a chance she could die.
Your family is in shock. You are devastated and confused. How could the raw milk be contaminated? The milk is tested for pathogens. Your daughter is very angry at you for talking her into trying raw milk for your granddaughter. She believed everything she read; especially how safe it is and now look at Susie. You tell your daughter how sorry you are. You really believed the milk was safe to drink. You are ridden with guilt as you continue to watch your granddaughter suffer. She is now at the childrens hospital, I.V. lines and catheters attached to her body. She receives blood transfusions and kidney dialysis.
Your granddaughter sends a month in the hospital. She didnt die, but has permanent kidney damage. She now takes medicine to assist her kidneys in working properly. She visits the nephrologist and has blood tests every 3 months. This is her new life. When the medicine quits working, she will someday need kidney dialysis and maybe even a kidney transplant. All of this because she drank raw milk that was contaminated with E.coli 0157:H7.
A year after your granddaughter became ill, you discover the trusted raw milk farmer had been outsourcing colostrum to his customers marketed with his dairys label during the timeframe your granddaughter became ill. This outsourced colostrum was bottled at the dairy and afterwards, milk from his own cows was passed through these same bottling machines. You now know first hand it only takes a minute amount of E.coli 0157:H7 in raw milk to make a child severely ill.
Sylvia, how would you feel? What would you want to tell other mothers who give raw milk to their children? If you had lived the above scenario, would you feel strongly about the need for warning labels, warning signs and warning statements on websites promoting raw milk? Would you want raw milk consumers to know that there are both positive and negative consequences to consuming raw milk?
cp
I couldn’t agree with you more.Everyone should be fully informed of the possible negative effects of drinking unpasteurized milk.
One day as I was distributing milk to people,a young woman came up to me and asked if I could reassure her that it would be safe to drink the milk while she was pregnant.I said that I couldn’t and in fact that I never recommend that anyone drink unpasteurized milk.I said that she would have to research the question herself and make a decision. Two little boys waiting in line with their mother looked at me in disbelief.They turned to mom and asked" is that true?".I looked at them and said "If you want milk that’s guaranteed safe,you will have to get it from the grocery store.They will tell you that it is safe,I cannot say that about this milk."The pregnant woman asked if she could get some milk if she decided it was safe.I told her"when you are absolutely sure that it is safe,come back and I will put you on the waiting list of people who want milk."
I didn’t start distributing milk as a business,I was happy just making cheese.I started distributing milk because so many people kept asking me for it every time they saw me.If you can shut off the demand by scaring people,I will happily go back to making cheese full time.
The intent of the signs is not to scare people. Its to educate people. Isnt that what this blog is all about?
The raw milk movement is very comfortable with shouting out and promoting the benefits of raw milk. They should be equally as comfortable with stating the facts about the small risk of raw milk contamination. This is nothing to hide or downplay. Its just a risk. Many are willing to take it; for themselves and their children.
In California, 40,000 people drink raw milk. Do you think a sign above raw milk sold in the stores will slow down Mark McAfees business? Is this about providing raw milk to those who REALLY want it and are willing to take the risk, or is it about making more money because your customer base keeps growing?
I guess a sign will show who is really committed to drinking raw milk. Lets say it cuts raw milk business in half. I guess that means 20,000 people didnt really have a clue about the possibility of pathogens in their milk.shame on the raw milk movement if that happened.
To the 20,000 people who quit drinking raw milk I would say, Do some research on probiotics. You will get all the same benefits of raw milk without the risk.
cp
Ive been thinking. I have a name for the raw milk sign law I would like passed in California. In honor of the two children who contracted HUS after drinking raw milk, I think the new raw milk law should be called the Lauren Christopher Law. It has a nice ring to it.
In fairness to raw milk, I would also like to see a sign above meat and in the produce department above packaged lettuce and spinach.
Dave Milano….please do not go insane. I know you hate laws named after kids.
cp
I’m all for educating the public.I even think they need a good scare now and then to wake them up so they will think about the stuff that passes for food in the grocery stores ,before they feed it to their children. From my vantage point,the demand for fresh from the farm milk is huge and growing fast and I sincerely doubt that any type of warning no matter how frightening will deter people from getting it.Not to say it shouldn’t be made clear that there are risks to fresh milk.The recent melamine contamination of milk products in the global dairy industry(including milk in the US) should make us all cautious about what we eat.Personally I’m scared to death every time I take a drink of raw milk,but after more than 50 years of drinking it the addiction is too strong to kick.
CP–I did not say it is O.K. that our bodies are slowly contaminated with toxins/chemicals and a screwed up food supply. I said there is a difference. With foodborne pathogens, there are IMMEDIATE and many times SEVERE consequences to the human body.
CPOn this blog, the topic is narrowed to the possibility of contaminated raw milk, all the different pathogens this food medium can host and the different illnesses that can result Even if this percentage is small, it does happen. Sylvia, you have a tendency to wander to other topics in order to minimize the negative aspects of raw milk consumption.
Sylvia–And you are sure there are no immediate reactions to the various chemicals dumped on society? It is too bad you feel my words minimize any negative aspects of raw dairy consumption. The same could be said about your words minimizing all toxins forced upon society. The topic is whatever David chooses. He has correlated raw dairy with various topics as well. If we in America have a right to slowly poison ourselves then why is the govt attacking raw dairy farmers?
I believe that most people know to a minimum degree that junk/chemical laden food is bad for them, I believe they do not really understand just how bad it is. They are not fully informed, as I said earlier, they dont care either until it affects them directly. Drug companies pan-handle their drugs to the public and medical community on how good it is for you, be sure and talk to your doc about this drug or that drug, very misleading, especially when they show someone with supposed RA (rheumatoid arthritis) , yup take this drug and you can break dance or go on a race. Utter BS. And the side effects, the ads minimize the horrid side effects. Many do believe that raw dairy is good for them, and does wonderful things for them. So what, if it does or not, it is their choice. There is a possibility of pathogen contamination in anything.
CPThere is one big difference between toxins/chemicals in food and pathogens in raw milk. The toxins/chemicals that are in our food supply take a long time to do damage to the human body. When people eat crap, their bodies do eventually break down.
Sylvia–What is the difference? I beg to differ, if it broke down in your body then the illness/disease would go away. Many times you poison the body, it does not repair itself.
C Person–I want to make an attempt to personalize a negative raw milk experience for you. You encourage your daughter not to be afraid of raw milk.
SylviaIve had my own negative experiences with pasteurized milk. I encourage anyone to read everything they could before making any choices about any foods new to them. I dont single out any particular sites nor do I ever push anyone to lean to my beliefs about food or anything else. If my daughter was leery about giving something to her child, I would never encourage her to go against her gut feeling. . Your scenario wouldnt be me and I could not even pretend it was. I don’t do what your "mother" in your scenario did’ I didnt see an age for this grandchild So I assume that she goes outside, eats regular food, and to include school food and all the other stuff kids do while playing. They tell your daughter it is probably the raw milk because she hasnt been exposed to any other high risk foods or sources.
I have no doubt that once raw milk is mentioned, they stop looking for other possibilities? Low risks cause infections too. Sloppy investigations.
Thankfully my daughter has the sense to not to believe everything she reads. She is also not a pushover for being lead to do things she doesnt agree with. I drink raw milk and feel the raw milk I drink is safe, I wouldnt drink it if I didnt feel that way.
Sylvia, how would you feel? What would you want to tell other mothers who give raw milk to their children?
I would not feel any guilt as stated above, I dont push my beliefs about food on anyone, I do encourage them to research whatever they are looking into. Ive lived a scenario with my son close to death. There are warnings on the milk bottles. I havent paid attention to whats on the web sites. I haven’t noticed warnings about the chemicals added to our foods on those packages. I would assume that most people are smart enough to know there are pros and cons with everything.
Youre a good man Miguel and have educated us all with your very informative posts.
Thank you,
cp
And believe me when I say I dont take lightly the toxins that are in our world and that are actually forced into our bodies just by breathing. Most people who know me think Im a fanatic when it comes to avoiding chemical/toxin ingestion. Id highly recommended a far- infrared sauna for all.
I have great respect for you and your comments. Your insights epitomize the interface of "free choice" and "public health" duty to inform about risks from raw milk products (given that raw milk is the topic right now, not drugs, vaccines, etc.).
Sylvia,
I also respect your point of view, and appreciate the opportunity to communicate. But, strongly disagree with this statement:
"I have no doubt that once raw milk is mentioned, they stop looking for other possibilities? Low risks cause infections too. Sloppy investigations."
That is fiction. Maybe you should do a "ride along" with the investigators (or look at the whole body of literature on foodborne disease outbreak investigations). Such an effort might be useful in gaining a better understanding of how public health science works. I’m not saying it is perfect, but your description of sloppy, short-sighted approaches is way off base, and rather insulting to the hard working folks who go to school for many years, get pretty low pay, and work long hours to figure out what caused an outbreak, and how to prevent people from getting sick in the future.
How would you do things differently given the same resources, knowledge, and desire to protect the public health?
An Observer- I used to work for the DHCS. I saw how many things "worked" within the state. I did not say all the workers were sloppy, many try thier best to do what they believe is right, just as many investigations are done poorly. The 2006 investigation was sloppy, didn’t one of the mothers try and give some raw milk, evidence, to the investigators? And they refused it? That may have solved a big issue had they examined that milk. There were many valid points brought up on this blog alone that pointed toward a very sloppy investigation.
I don’t need to do a ride-along, I am able to read and from reports I am able to form conclusions and ask more questions and investigate further. The recent tomato recall was another sloppy investigation, if they don’t know or are not sure, then they should tell the public that. Honesty goes a long way. I did learn something from this tomato fiasco, that foods may not be from where you thought, they are mixed at the processing place.
As said many times, I do believe there should be basic standards for all entities that produce for the masses. I don’t believe that anyone said producers shouldn’t learn safety. Safety is basic. I believe there should be fairness and equality for all the producers. I also have said that education is the key and the responsibility of all parties involved. If you have a sickly child or family member, the prudent thing to do is investigate all foods and medicines you give them. Unfortunately many don’t.
If I enter into a contract with a cow share, then I am taking responsibility for my actions. I know the hazards and would expect the farmer to adhere to at least the basics in standards (I would of course not accept the basics, I would expect a higher standard-but that is just me), I would not want nor expect any govt to intrude onto my contract.
That is not unusual….that is where campylobacter likes to live. It is also correct to state that many people have a positive campylobacter fecal result when tested and are not sickened by the presence of the pathogen.
Remember that the CDC did not list campylobacter as a pathogen until 1972. Prior to 1972 it was considered a travelers diarhea and once you got it one time…. you were mostly immune for life.
But I will say that the campylobacter was not found in our raw milk. The CDFA did find some in our raw cream after 9 days of specialized intensive lab culturing that includes the addition of special antibiotics… OPDC is not perfect but we try our best to approach it. That is all we can do.
There have been no pathogens ever detected in OPDC raw milk. That is still a true statement.
We tested our cows manure again this year ( Costing $1800 using the CDFA labs in LA ) for Ecoli 0157H7. None was found in 450 samples.
A university study done years ago showed that those that drink raw milk on a regular basis showed a posiitve titer for campylobacter immunity. In other words they had gained immunity and antibodies to the bacteria and exposure to it did not cause illness.
The most sterilized immune systems can become ill from a long list of bacteria ( and getting longer ).
A strong immune system that is exposed to minute amounts of pathogenic material soon becomes immune to it….shouldn’t that be the goal of health?? That is prevntion. It is embraced in the paradigm of vaccination in Western Medicine. The same result can be achieved using the GI tract pathway and raw milk.
The question is this…..is a pathogen a pathogen if it does not make you sick. The answer is this…pathogens make money for doctors and the medical industry. Why limit the number of pathogens. Make the list longer for gods sake so we can make even more money. Of what use is a strong immune system????!!
Darwin and mother natures rules…as cruel as they may be… provide for the survival of the fittest and that includes humans. Humanity intervenes to control this culling of humans that are weak or hungry. I support feeding and caring for our fellow human beings and a great part of my life was dedicated to caring for those in need,…..but it is far from natural or what is embraced by natural laws.
Raw milk is a choice for those that chose health and strong immunity.
When tested and regulated raw milk is extremely safe.
As far as a big sign that says that "raw milk can contain pathogens"…I think that is rediculous. There are have been far more deaths from Pasteurized Milk than raw milk
( three last year at Whittier Farms in MA ). All foods can contain pathogens. In fact pathogens have a very hard time growing in raw milk and will flourish in pasteurized milk ( pathogen controlling beneficial bacteria and enzymes systems are lost ).
Perhaps a sign at the front of all stores should say…"eating sterilized, irradiated, pasteurized, preserved, GMO foods will decrease your immunity and invites illness".
On the other hand anything that brings attention to raw milk increases sales…So I think that a big huge red sign that says " raw milk is a personal responsibility drink…drink raw milk at your own risk….raw milk contains good bacteria that strengthens immunity but also may contain small amounts of bacteria that if consumed regularly will increase your immune to harmful bacteria….be warned …raw milk will lessen your dependancy on FDA drugs and may lead to pharmaceudical bankruptcies…a cup a day keeps the doctor away"
This is a warning sign I would support 100%.
This would be a great thing for education and the raw milk market.
Wishful thinking and hoping.
Mark McAfee
If I hear you correctly, you think a point of sale sign is ridiculous, however, if the Lauren Christopher law were enacted, you would like the see some of the pros of raw milk listed also. I actually think that is a good idea. This educational warning sign would not be bias. Both the pros and cons of raw milk would be sited.
I have to attend a family function, but will write later on specific statements that could be used on this all inclusive raw milk point of sale sign. I know what I would like included for the cons, maybe you can give me ideas what you would like include on the pros; or should I just use some of the ideas you just listed?
An Observer.Do you have any ideas you would like to include for the Lauren Christopher law?
Would anyone else like to contribute? We can make this a group project.
cp
Do you have a copy of the current warning label used on the bottles in CA….the label is not visible on the raw dairy websites (or, I couldn’t find it)? With regard to listing "pros" on a point of sale sign, per FDA’s complaint posted on this blog recently, it seems that any language included on a sign must not imply that the product is being used as a drug. This is not my area of expertise, but from the FDA complaint (lawsuit), they state certain health claims may put raw milk products (presumably including colostrum) into the category of a new drug, which means the product would have to go through the same extensive testing and approval like any other new drug, correct?
Because it is always helpful to learn from history, and California has a long history of raw milk debates, I did a quick search about point of sale signs. This blurb from the National Council Against Health Fraud is interesting. CRM = certified raw milk
"Alta Dena’s advertising claimed that CRM was the "safest, purest, most wholesome milk you can buy" and distributed "educational" materials claiming that pasteurization markedly reduced the nutritional value of milk. Alta Dena refused to put warning labels on CRM. The Berkeley Co-op reported that the warning signs it voluntarily posted were repeatedly torn down by CRM buyers. The AIDS problem in San Francisco eventually caused its city council to require such a label. Political intervention in Sacramento continued to prevent the Department of Health Services from ordering Alta Dena to pasteurize. A public interest lawsuit brought by Consumer’s Union, the American Public Health Association and the California Grey Panthers (a senior citizen consumer group) resulted in a 1985 court order requiring a warning label on CRM. Stueve continued to deny that CRM was responsible for health problems. Alta Dena financed an independent study by the UCLA School of Public Health to determine if CRM was actually a problem. Epidemiologists at UCLA estimated that more than one-third of reported S. dublin infections in California from 1980-83 were attributable to raw milk consumption. It appeared that the incidence of infection was 8 to 35 per 100,000 [9]. It was determined that the relative risk of illness from S. dublin infection for CRM users in 1983 was 158.0 based upon an estimated one pint/day/user consuming some of the 12,000 gallons produced daily [10].
http://www.ncahf.org/articles/o-r/rawmilk.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/26/AR2008112600386.html?hpid=sec-health
David, your words ring true in light of the fda’s recent about-face. It’s ok to poison babies.
This is very similar to E.coli 0157:H7 in hamburger which had been hiding in our food supply, but no one knew it was there. It took the 1993 Jack-in-the Box outbreak to bring awareness to the damage that can be done by ingesting E.coli 0157:H7.
Now we will hyper focus (which is a good thing) on this chemical toxin, melamine, in our food supply. What about all the rest of the chemicals? If anything, this will get people thinking about whats in their processed foods and how truly vulnerable we all are.
There are tests to measure the level of toxins in each persons blood. It would be an eye opener if this was a required test at annual physicals. I had my heavy metal levels checked. All levels were low, but it is scary to see it on a piece of paper. In my opinion, even low levels do damage to the human body. Using a far infrared sauna facilitates getting heavy metals and chemical toxins out of your body.
Thanks for the reply and the advice. I never thought it would be easy, your past posts just made it sound easy and straight forward.
In general good advice, some good information I wish I knew before I learned it the hard way.
Unfortunately I find debt and government handouts neither tenable nor sustainable. Debt is a trap and those things have ruined too many farmers in this country.
We really need to figure out good ways to help people get into farming without such things. As we recreate our local food system we need to recreate a system of farming that doesn’t depend on bankers and government handouts. If we don’t it will be doomed to fail like the last one did.
One thing some farmers are doing is apprenticeships which includes not just farming skills, but business and direct marketing skills. The idea is the apprentice completes a business plan and as part of their work earns calves or a starter herd. This way at the end of their training they have both the means and skills to farm.
Unfortunately, when presented with the huge demand for local food, too many farmers focus on getting big instead of helping others get into farming. That may or may not apply to you Mark, I don’t know. But we can’t do it alone. We need our customers and we need more farmers.
My friend had the blood test to fing out the heavy metals in her system. It was amazing.