CA Legislator Learns a Hard Lesson: Raw-Milk Bureaucrats Will Bite the Hands That Feed Them
Saturday, April 5, 2008 at 11:27AM 
For the last ten days or so, Mark McAfee has been building up the April 15 hearing before a joint California Senate committee as “the biggest raw milk event in history,” something akin to the shootout at OK Corral. Top guns from the California Department of Food and Agriculture, the California Department of Public Health, and the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, along with their minions of Ph.D. scientists, facing off against scientists and others who back raw milk as an important whole food.
I’ve been skeptical about this scenario. The government types just don’t like bright lights and real debate. They like to work from damp dark places, in secret, posting biased PowerPoint presentations on their web sites, pouncing on unsuspecting farmer victims when they least expect it. Last August, when a Washington radio show proposed a debate on raw milk, the FDA refused to send a representative, saying, “This is not a debatable issue.”
In the last couple days, the government types have reverted to form, with the CDFA and the CDPH bowing out of the April 15 hearing, offering the lame excuse that they feel inhibited by the court suit brought by OPDC and Claravale Farm over AB 1735 and its coliform standard. Poor little babies don’t want to impede the wheels of justice.
But the state senator in charge of the hearings, Dean Florez, chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Food-Borne Illness, isn’t buying the CDFA/CDPH excuses.
“Your attempt to hide behind ‘pending litigation’ between Organic Pastures and the State of California is not well taken,” he said in a letter to the heads of the two bureaucracies. “There is no question that the participation of CDFA and CDPH at this hearing is both necessary and appropriate…Your lack of participation in this hearing will be seen as a public affront to the oversight function of the Senate as an institution, and will not be well taken. Please confirm your attendance at the hearing by 4 p.m. Monday April 7, 2007.”
If I hear Sen. Florez correctly, he’s sending a couple messages. First, don’t bite the hand that feeds you. Second, the April 15 hearing is a command performance.
Yet these bureaucrats have become so comfortable in their power, and their ability to scout out the political landscape, they may calculate Florez doesn't control enough votes and that they can defy him anyway. Should be interesting to see how this little power struggle plays out. The last things these rascals want is an open public debate. The truth can be upsetting, and unsettling.
Reader Comments (47)
Bob Hayles
Thornberry Village Homestead
Jasper, GA
Thornberry Village Homestead...a small goat dairy, owned by God, managed by Bob and Tyler.
It's not entirely about votes. There is a longer game here: Florez plans to run for state office and could be overseeing these offices at some point.
***
In the run-up to the April 15 hearing and considering that David is busy, here's some hypothetical questions to see how hard-core everyone is:
Q: Would you drink raw milk that has been officially recalled for some sort of pathogen?
My answer: I have but I don't think I would again.
Q: Would you drink raw milk from a random bulk tank in America?
My Answer: If I lived on a dairy or had a direct connection and an easy way to get it, I am sure I would. My own dairy aside (which I do not have), I wouldn't give it to my son.
Q: Do you drink your milk after it has spoiled?
My Answer: No because it's nasty. If it's on the edge, I culture it. If I miss the boat, the chickens get it.
Q: Do you love raw milk so much that you want to marry it?
My Answer: I was mad at my husband last week and certainly would have answered "yes" at that time. Generally, "no," I am happily married.
What are your answers? Add more questions!
Amanda
So, the answers are:
Q: Would you drink raw milk that has been officially recalled for some sort of pathogen?
My answer: If I were a brand new customer of that producer, probably not...BUT...if I were a long time customer, familiar with the producer's animal management and milk handling methods, which folks should know if they "know their farmer" like I think they should, then yes, I would drink milk under an official recall, unless the farmer told me that he reccomended caution because he thought there might actually be a problem. A huge part, possibily the biggest part, of "know your farmer" is developing a trusting relationship with him, and in this case, having developed that trust, I would far rather put my trust in a farmer I have a relationship with than in a government bureaucrat whose agency mandate is, at least partially, the destruction of raw milk.
Q: Would you drink raw milk from a random bulk tank in America?
My Answer: Not on your life. Back to my first answer, I would have a relationship with, and trust, a farmer I knew. It's kinda hard to have a trusting relationship with a "random bulk tank".
Q: Do you drink your milk after it has spoiled?
My Answer: No, for the same reason as you. Do I think it is dangerous? No...but I have too much respect for my taste buds to torture them with something vile tasting.
Q: Do you love raw milk so much that you want to marry it?
My Answer: I've been married twice, and both of them decided they really couldn't put up with me...something about my being an opioniated know-it-all and WAY too political, or something like that. I'd hate for the next rejection to come from a pail of good, fresh goat's milk, so I think I'll answer "no" to that one...or at least plead the fifth...
Bob Hayles
Thornberry Village Homestead
Jasper, GA
Thornberry Village Homestead...owned by God, managed by Bob and Tyler.
Regarding the April 25th Preliminary Injunction hearing for Claravale and OPDC, which follows on the heels of the April 15th hearing in Sacramento, we need people who are customers of ours (and even those who aren't) to go to our website (www.claravaledairy.com) and send in their testimonials. It's fairly self explanatory, but don't hesitate to contact us if you have any questions. We love you all and thank you very much for your support!
Collette Cassidy
Claravale Farm
Yes.
Q: Would you drink raw milk from a random bulk tank in America?
No. Not because of a concern for pathogens but rather with the use of antibiotics, genetically modified growth hormones, vaccines and various other chemicals.
Q: Do you drink your milk after it has spoiled?
Yes. Raw milk in its self preserved state is not a whole lot different then cultured butter milk, and it’s great for making pancakes and cooking various other dishes with. Numerous cultures wouldn’t think of drinking it in any other way.
Q: Do you love raw milk so much that you want to marry it?
No. I’ll plead the Fifth Amendment as well.
Ken Conrad
http://barfblog.foodsafety.ksu.edu/2008/04/articles/raw-milk/don-schaffner-guest-barfblogger-raw-milk-seminar-series-update/
Based on that article it sounds like the big discussion was over that risk data. I would be really interested if someone could shed some light on that. I assume that Gebhart was using the CDC data from the FOI request. But what is the American Journal of Public Health reference? Does it analyze the CDC data? Does it use a different data source? Does anyone have a citation?
Amanda
Q: Would you drink raw milk that has been officially recalled for some sort of pathogen?
My answer: I'm really not sure. At this point in time, probably not. But in reality, you don't find out about the recall till after you've already consumed the milk, so it's not often I suspect that we'd get such a choice.
Q: Would you drink raw milk from a random bulk tank in America?
My Answer: Definitely not. There's pretty substantial research that significant quantities of ordinary bulk tank milk is contaminated with pathogens. It's important to distinguish this from bulk tank milk coming from a farm you know well.
Q: Do you drink your milk after it has spoiled?
My Answer: I find that my milk doesn't begin spoiling for at least three weeks. And even then, its taste merely seems to sour some, so I usually drink it (assuming it lasts that long).
Q: Do you love raw milk so much that you want to marry it?
My answer: Now you're getting personal!
I have before and would again, since I know my farmer and trust the conditions of the dairy are safe.
Q: Would you drink raw milk from a random bulk tank in America?
No, for the antibiotic and hormone reasons stated by others. If I knew the farmer, and could tell that conditions were clean, I would without hesitation.
Q: Do you drink your milk after it has spoiled?
It has never lasted long enough to 'go'. I would use it up or culture it well before that happened.
Q: Do you love raw milk so much that you want to marry it?
I am happily married to my wonderful husband.
Why are our federal taxes being used by the FDA to nose around in California's business?
What standing does the FDA/federal govt have in this hearing?
Why is the FDA being allowed to attend?
Is the federal gov'ts investigation into OP's sale of pet food across state lines relevant in this hearing? Will testimony regarding it be allowed?
My (Indiana) reps and senators will hear about my disgust over FDA's interference in this matter.
Florez should bar the feds from attending.
Florez should subpeona CDPH and CDFA chiefs and personally and publicly reprimand them for their tactics leading up to this mess.
In 1936, the supreme court ruled that it is unconstitutional for the federal government to regulate the production of agricultural products. However, the court left loopholes that allowed USDA to spend public funds. To some degree or another, they've attempted to separate their funded programs from the appearance of direct regulation of production. It's time to close the loopholes. USDA has destroyed its own constituency and FDA has betrayed its public trust by assisting in mass epidemics of chronic disease. I say it's well past time for a "retooling."
Amanda
My answer: I suspect that I would already have drunk it, although I wouldn't be too worried given raw milk's resilience (thanks to an abundance of coliform and other good "balancing" bacteria). I would be much more concerned about residual pathogens in a pasteurized product (or one of any number of other high-risk foods about which we routinely hear these days), since pasteurized milk is basically sugar water and the bad bacteria would have no real competition once they get rolling.
Q: Would you drink raw milk from a random bulk tank in America?
My Answer: Nope; that WOULD be playing "Russian roulette with your health" given the reliance on pasteurization "clean up" in typical large-dairy practice. This is not to say that many farmers (I know several) don't drink raw milk from their bulk tanks destined for pasteurization. I forget the numbers, but this on-farm raw milk consumption is tallied by the government and it is not insignificant, so many farm families drink this milk - or perhaps, from the separate "family cow." Even so, I'd think twice before drinking such not-yet-pasteurized milk to which my system had not become accustomed, as opposed to the farm families who likely have become adjusted to their animals' milk,
Q: Do you drink your milk after it has spoiled?
My Answer: Haven't had the chance. Just finished up a gallon last weekend that was three weeks old with no noticeable change. If the milk were sour on day one, I'd probably not drink it because souring that quickly might indicate a problem, and I'd notify my farmer ASAP (just in case others were having the same experience and he could then react). Such a radically short shelf life would indicate the milk hadn't been cooled soon enough after milking; had lost refrigeration somewhere along the line; or there might be a contamination issue in the milking system (breach in a vacuum line which permits ambient air to be drawn into the system). Any of these problems need to be tracked down and fixed, since such super-high coliform counts (probably, well into the six-figure range) would surely be a shelf-life issue. If it soured at the end of our normal two-week cycle, I'd use the opportunity to learn about the benefits of other "down stream" milk products.
Q: Do you love raw milk so much that you want to marry it?
Lawyer's answer: no, that would be bigamy (gotta be a kill-joy in every group).
"Q: Do you love raw milk so much that you WANT to marry it?"
Bigamy would be actually marrying it. Wanting to marry it is philandering.
Bob
The Seattle Times ran a few words yesterday as well:
Seattle attorney Bill Marler is suing Organic Pastures, the nation's largest organic raw milk dairy, on behalf of two children who fell ill after consuming its products. Testing at the dairy farm near Fresno, Calif., did not detect the strain of E. coli that sickened the children, but a government report said the dairy was likely responsible. Marler, who has sued other dairies as well, criticized states for bowing to pressure from farmers and allowing raw milk sales to go on - legally or not.
"My worry is that as it becomes more acceptable and becomes more commercialized, you know, it will reach a critical mass where all of the sudden you're going to get a whole bunch of little kids poisoned," Marler said. "And then everybody will throw up their arms and go, 'Whoa, we've got to stop this, we've got to pasteurize.'"
And, as Mark the Defendant said:
"They have never found a pathogen in our raw milk since we opened in 2000," dairy owner Mark McAfee said. But properly produced raw milk does contain bacteria that "help rebuild immune systems," he added.
Too bad that he fails to mention the Listeria <link>, Campylobacter <link> and E. coli <link> problems Organic Pastures has had.
"Top guns from the California Department of Food and Agriculture, the California Department of Public Health, and the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, along with their minions of Ph.D. scientists, facing off against scientists and others who back raw milk as an important whole food."
Can someone confirm?
concerned2 -- perhaps McAfee is lying. Or, you simply do not understand that various strains of the same bacteria may or may not be pathogenic. Or, it could be that "problems" as you define them are simply more cases of public health officials making unfounded accusations without proof. e.g. "a government report said the dairy was *likely* responsible."