Stay Connected
Search
Login
« Marler-CDFA Tandem Fails to Derail SB 201 in CA Senate—Look for Massive Pressure to Influence Governor | Main | Behind the Sloppy Video Is a Larger Struggle—More from the WAPF on Marler’s Methods »
Friday
29Aug2008

How I Erred on the Martin Tape, and the New Lessons I Learned

There seem to be two complaints in the comments on my previous couple posts. The first has to do with the white-on-black typeface. I hear your pain, and I have changed to this format that features old-fashioned black-on-white. This design was originally my second choice in terms of appearance, but the reading problem has made it number one. Hopefully, it will stick.

The second complaint is more challenging, and that concerns whether I was unfair to the Martin family with respect to their video of Chris on YouTube, and somehow called into question the honesty of the Martins and their lawyer, Bill Marler when I said the editing was “sloppy” in handling the dates. I have gone back and reviewed a number of items and realize now that I was mistaken. The dates on the video are accurate, and I apologize to the Martins and Bill Marler for suggesting otherwise.

But in reviewing all various materials, I have come to realize that the video is perhaps more misleading than I originally thought, beginning with the title, “HUS from raw milk, Chris Martin.”

I was hampered in my review because none of the principals in this situation will speak with me. Mary McGonigle-Martin has, since Marler filed a court suit early this year against Mark McAfee, refused to discuss events publicly, and she did so again in the last few days when I tried to engage her. Her lawyer, Marler, has decided to refrain from saying more since his comments of a few days ago. When I went back to him late yesterday with a request that he follow up on a commitment he made to send me a summary of Chris Martin’s medical records, so I could check the dates, he wrote back, “You can get all if this from Mark. I will let this all play out through the legal system.”

Anyway, Mark has similarly refused to discuss the Martin situation with me, for the same reasons as Mary—there’s a court case pending. That’s common practice in such situations. No one in such cases wants to risk poisoning the juror pool, and in the process offending a judge, by saying something or doing something controversial.

All of which makes the simple act of posting the video August 21 all the more puzzling. But anyway, I decided to begin by going back to the journal Mary originally sent me in early 2007 (previously published in fuller form on this blog), from the days of Chris’ illness in late 2006. And here’s what she stated during the dates in question:

9/16 It was now 2:00 a.m. The ventilator was managing Chris’s every breath…

9/20 Chris would spend nearly five full days on the ventilator… Over these five days we had extensive discussions with (the nephrologist) about our son’s condition upon arrival. He was dismayed to say the least. He told us that all of the respiratory issues our son was experiencing could have been avoided had Chris arrived at Loma Linda on Monday—not Thursday. He could have avoided having to be intibated due to the risk of congestive heart failure…He stated that Chris would have received dialysis immediately…From this point forward, days turned into weeks. Chris was taken off the ventilator after five days. He could not speak, throat swollen, more drugs administered to reduce the swelling. He had to wear a tightly fitted mask (By-Pap) over his mouth and nose, forcing oxygen deep into his lungs, due to a partially collapsed lung. Again, this need not have happened. More unnecessary pain and suffering…”

The next entry isn't until 9/29, when she reports he had a seizure from high blood pressure, and then the next one, 10/1, says, "He was taken off the ventilator at 11:45 p.m."

Three things stand out to me from this:

First, there are questions about whether the need for the respirator was necessitated by the illness or because of previous inappropriate treatment Chris received.

Second, Chris seems to have come off the respirator Sept. 21 (five days after the Sept. 16 entry), but still required a mask. Mary didn’t explain whether he wore the mask full-time or not (and I couldn’t ask her or Marler), but two people who commented on my previous two posts, who say they have medical expertise, seemed to suggest he didn’t need it full time.

According to cp, “The video portrays the progression of Chris Martin regaining the function of his lungs.”

Gwen (Henwhisperer), provides more detail:

“It isn't unusual for such masks to be on only when a patient is sleeping. When he was awake, particularly to eat, he would have had a nasal cannula on for oxygen rather than a bipap or mask; or nothing to assist his breathing at all if his oxygen level held out while he was awake and alert. And he would have been sitting up or moving around. It is entirely possible he could have been talking on his cell phone on the 23rd and 24th, or the same days these last 2 clips were taken. There are no clips on the 21st or 22nd, so it may have even been possible then. There is no NG tube in the last 2 clips, so I am going to assume that the child could have been eating food by then, and so was at times awake and without a mask. Just because he is asleep and breathing noisily doesn't mean he was not awake and breathing quietly at other times of those days, or able to talk on a cell phone.”

Based on those observations, I agree with Henwhisperer’s conclusion:

”If the case is that the clips were merely taken during sleep moments, and the child also had waking moments without masks on those days, the video is misleading, and making the most of dramatizing the case.”

It seems to me that when Mark McAfee visited—whether on Sept. 23, 24, or 25—perhaps Chris wasn’t wearing his mask. Maybe he was speaking on a telephone (cell phone or portable phone). Maybe he was listening to music through a headset.

Third, my particular error in all this was in not re-reviewing the video I acquired many months ago (and looked at then), which is a longer version of the YouTube video. I couldn’t get my VCR to work earlier this week and, because I was in a hurry to get the posting done, decided to use the accounts I had, including Marler’s statement that there may have been some kind of inconsistency in dates.

Today, I went to a neighbor’s house and watched the tape, which is about eight minutes long, and the dates jibe with YouTube. In my tape, you can actually hear Mary and husband Tony speaking gently to Chris at a couple of points while he’s on the ventilator. And there is a segment following the Sept. 24 portion, dated Nov. 2, showing Chris sitting dressed and alert, and getting ready to go home from the hospital, followed by some tape of him arriving home, looking completely normal. Interestingly, this "good news" doesn't appear on the YouTube tape.

As a journalist, though, I definitely shouldn't make errors like that. When I do, I try to own up to them.

Be that as it may, in reviewing all this material, I feel that, given Mary's suggestion that medical errors may have led to Chris going on life supoort, the title on YouTube making a connection with raw milk , is highly questionable. The tape's narration is similarly misleading in suggesting that the raw milk put Chris on life support. And its implication that Chris was continually on a breathing apparatus is similarly misleading.

These problems, combined with the timing of the tape's release, make it today what it has always been--a piece of pure propaganda. The Martins should never have asked for such a personal and emotionally explosive recording be made public in this way, to influence a piece of legislation, and Marler should never have gone along with posting it, accusing the defendant in a pending court case.

Reader Comments (37)

Though I've been reading David's posts, I haven't kept up with the discussion for several months, and may be repeating something already discussed in comments. I was writing in repy to the previous post and the 8/21 post about irradiation of spinach and the Schwenkler article.
...........
Is it possible that the vendetta against unpasteurized milk has more to do with the use of the word 'pasteurized' as a euphemism for irradiation? If the intent is to irradiate most industrial food, and call it 'pasteurized' then the reason for using the latter term is because it already has a widely accepted association with healthful benefits and food purity. In order to maintain the fiction that pasteurization is good, and pasteurized food is healthier than unpasteurized food, then the raw milk movement must be destroyed, since it is antithetical to the 'common wisdom' that pasteurizing milk makes milk more nutritious/healthier than leaving the milk in its natural state, and producing it in a humane and hygienic manner.

I come to this conclusion because I find it hard otherwise to understand why so much effort is going into the wide-ranging assault on such a small niche market. And also because I recently noticed this: http://bill-marler.dailykos.com/

Based on his id number, I guess he joined recently, shortly before beginning his posts, some of which are not even written specifically for this blog, and which merely repeat. His purpose may be to advertise his practice (unlikely) or fearmonger about tainted food, or to attract a highly politically active group of people to eventually harness in his cause. Could there be a connection between his foray onto the biggest Democratic political blog and the pending Martin/OP trial? Or SB201?

Notice his responses to 'Halcyon' on the first post, on the 19th. He mocks the suggestion that he may be promoting irradiation. Not until six days later (8/25) does he admit: "Nuking food Actually a fan: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/08/22/MNAF12GA03.DTL
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-irradiateaug25,0,2630975.story "

On one of his 'diaries ' (the one about 'cow shit') he accused a commenter by the name of 'Gumpster' of being David. Here's Marler's comment:

"Gumpster" a.k.a David Gumpert (1+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
G2geek

David, I a very proud to be a lawyer representing victims of personal and corporate greed. And, yes, I do get paid doing it. I also spend about 1/2 my time for free talking to companies about why it is a bad idea to poison people (see, www.outbreakinc.com). Perhaps, I do that to give back and try to prevent more illnesses, perhaps it is a little guilt - people are complex, I am not different. I do not hide what I do - see my profile here, or take the time to visit www.billmarler.com.

David, I know that you promote the drinking of raw milk at you blog, www.completepatient.com, and I know you do not like the fact that I have sued manufacturers of raw milk who have poisoned children. But, the product you promote is no different that any other product. You really are no different than any PR man for any corporation you range against.

If a product is defective - E. coli tainted raw milk or an exploding pinto car - manufacturers under the law are treated the same. Those injured by defective products can seek compensation. I believe in the civil justice system. It is one of the only ways that people can stand up for their rights in the country.

I know you do not like me or what I do. You assume the worst, because anything else would challenge your beliefs and you can not do that. Actually, that says more about your inability to see different perspectives other than your own, than anything else. I feel badly for you.

Bill Marler
............
David: Does anyone pay you to blog about raw milk?

Marler says he spends half his time "talking to companies". I wonder if some other companies pay him to spend so much of his time freely offering advice to food companies. And why would food companies need to be told "why it is a bad idea to poison people"? Surely they already know. What else do they talk about? So now we know that Bill Marler only represents victims of food poisoning part-time. And we know that he spends a lot of time consulting with the food industry. And he's in favor of irradiating food, and he actively assists in the effort to ban raw milk. Hmm.
...........
There was a post at Daily Kos in April about th
August 29, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterLacedo
There was a post at Daily Kos in April about the Nolts. It can be found at the 'Raw Milk' tag: http://www.dailykos.com/tag/Raw%20Milk

Judging from that post, and others about food, I'd say there's far more support for unadulterated food than for Bill Marler's point of view at Daily Kos.
August 29, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterLacedo
Lacedo,
I try to avoid getting personal about people I disagree with. Bill Marler has a problem that way. I knew nothing about Daily Kos or Gumpster until Marler sent me a particularly nasty email about something Gumpster wrote last week. When I spoke with him earlier this week, I asked him what it was all about, and he finally realized I'm not Gumpster. To his credit, he issued an apology following my initial post about the Martin YouTube video.
As for me getting secretly paid to write about raw milk...gee, I wish I could figure out a way to do that...on second thought, scratch that idea.
August 29, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterDavid Gumpert
Lacedo,

Perhaps you are reading too much into it. The raw milk topic has gotten really heated as various events triangulate, and everyone is on edge. It seems like a bunch of folks (mostly in America, I assume) taking advantage of the freedom to express their opinions, and use mechanisms like the internet to make their voices heard. Marler, Gumpert, Fallon, whoever: Why get so involved in a video from "the other side?" Dates, cell phones, etc. I've watched this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5FoFoFNeCk and seen numerous "cut and paste" efforts to promote a different agenda. So what? Is it propaganda? Who has dissected this video? The people must research it themselves and find the truth.

Also, what's up with the new look (did I land on Saturn?). The "light side" is totally confused - grey, black, striped? Or evolving?
August 29, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterDV
While I have probably whispered to hens, I can't claim that handle. That is someone else, but I am a registered nurse, and made the posts referred to.

In today's post, David, you said that Mary told you Chris had a collapsed lung, and that was the reason for the bipap. In that case, they could not have taken it off of him for any length of time, until the lung was partially re-inflated. That is new information. Ventilators are also hard on vocal chords, and people don't like to speak for a while after being on one. The problem with medical information, is that it is all relative to what is going on. Unless you have the full story, there is no way to know what really happened.

Doctor's aren't gods. People sometimes expect them to be. HUS is rare enough that many doctors would most likely make the same mistakes, delaying important care. We won't ever know for sure what poisoned Chris Martin. I wonder if Marler will be able to proves such a thing in court.

Gwen
August 30, 2008 | Unregistered Commenterelderberryjam
David, thank you for the clarity, both on the visual and journalistic fronts.
August 30, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterSteve Bemis
my question is: why would a mom and dad video their son while he's (potentially) on his death bed? what would such a "memory" be used for?

to show the boy his ordeal should he recover?
to view years later to refresh the terrible memory?

personally i'm very suspect of the parents on this topic as i can find no logical conclusion besides them loading for bear for the lawsuit they already knew they were going to file against op regardless of the facts.

our society is extremely sue happy, so many folks are unable to bear responsibility for their choices and eager (even insistant) on finding someone to blame besides themselves.

they have to live with themselves and they have to sleep with the knowledge (even is tightly surpressed by denial) of their actions and lack of morle fortitude. i want nothing to do with people like them, and in the big scheme of things have no pitty for their trials and tribulations as they stumble thru life sans personal accountability.

amerian society is in a sad state.

hugh
August 30, 2008 | Unregistered Commenterhugh betcha
HMMMM, interesting thought Hugh. Videotaping my daughter as she lay critical from e-coli NEVER crossed my mind. In fact I was too busy talking with the many doctors and nurses, accompanying her to scans and ultrasounds to make sure her kidneys were ok etc. I'm sure someone would have had to suggest it to me and then I would not be ok with it. Why would I want to save that memory ?- even the nurses did not want a picture of her when she was sick. They waited til she was better. I am sure I would never drag it out and show it at family reunions. So what other reason could there be for doing the video? Only the parents know the answer to that. Even if her case warranted a lawsuit ,I am sure if there were any basis in fact I would not need a video.
August 30, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterA real farmer
Hugh, that is not the only reason people videotape their sick child in a hospital. I have a load of pictures of my daughter the first 12 days of her life in a neonatal intensive care unit, and the motivation for taking those pictures had absolutely nothing to do with wanting to sue anybody. I also wrote down every nurse's name who cared for her, and everything they did to her. Again, it was not motivated by any desire to sue. I wanted simply to understand what was happening, thoroughly.

I wrote a long letter to the hospital afterwards, pointing out things I did not think were beneficial, but also naming by name the nurses whom I felt were exceptional. I know these things to assist hospitals in improving their care.

Even as a nurse, I had no idea what all the machines, procedures and protocols were. It was not my area of expertise. It was all a blurr (I'd just had a baby), and I wanted a hard copy to look at later and evaluate what had happened. I also am very glad I took those pictures, because for her own sake, when she is 12 and asks me about the scars on her right wrist and on her left chest wall, I can show her pictures of when her wrist was cut down in attempt to get an arterial line in it, and pictures with the two chest tubes coming out of her tiny chest. A picture is worth a thousand words.

Months after she was discharged, I had the pictures in hand to look up words like "oscillating ventilator," and settings on the internet.

When I went back to work, I had pictures to show my coworkers what she and we had been through. I had pictures to show my older children, who were on the other side of the country when she was born; and to the family members who didn't make it to the hospital.

It is pretty normal for people to want to go over tragic events in their lives, second by second, to re-evaluate them, and to find always new ways to view them and cope with them. A pictoral record helps with this. It is very wise to record as much as possible, for many reasons other than lawsuits. It is part of a coping and healing process.

Another coworker had a picture in his wallet of his 4 y/o daughter when she was in a NICU, with his wedding ring around her wrist. He carried it with him in part to remind him of how precious her life was to him.

What is unethical to me is Marler's use of this video for political purposes. He is not only representing the family, but has taken it many steps further, posting it on the internet. He may be quiet now because of the lawsuit, but influencing a jury as a reason? I don't think so. He has been a lawyer long enough to know better than to put such a video on YouTube!! And a family in the middle of the confusing legal world cannot be entirely blamed when their lawyer - the person they are trusting to represent them - persuades them or seeks their permission to use what they have recorded in such a way. It may not have been wise to give their permission, but I don't blame them. I blame the lawyer and narrator, for agreeing or convincing them this was a good idea.

Gwen
August 30, 2008 | Unregistered Commenterelderberryjam
I have a different view than most of the comments being made about the video and the alleged cell phone use. If you are pro raw milk, then you are going to believe Mark McAfee’s statement and somehow believe this child was capable of talking on a cell phone during the timeframe shown on the video.

If you are anti-raw milk and you read a statement made by Mark McAfee, a read flag goes up. In the past on this blog, he has made some outrageous statements that most people reading would question the validity.

The answer is in the video itself. It has now been determined that the dates seen are correct. At the end, when this child is laboring to breathe, does it look like he could sustain a conversation on the telephone without the use of oxygen? Could he sustain a conversation at all? I’m guessing by what seems to me as an obvious conclusion, a few words spoken would probably take much effort.

This video is emotionally difficult to watch. The truth is shocking. A deadly bacterium caused this condition. It shouldn’t matter how the contamination occurred. This child and family suffered and everyone should keep that in mind before a statement is made about the motivations behind why the video was made or why it was placed on YouTube. We have not walked in there shoes and I hope to God I never do.

I know most people here are not fans of Bill Marler so you may not want to read this on his blog. He posted the report from Connecticut regarding the recent raw milk outbreak. They did find the matching E.coli in the cow’s poop. I believe it said two of the children had developed HUS as a result of drinking contaminated milk.

Thanks to the Martin video, all raw milk drinkers now “really” know the risk they’re taking when giving their children raw milk, hamburger, spinach, or lettuce. These are all high risk foods for E.coli 0157:H7.
August 30, 2008 | Unregistered Commentercurious
I would also like to say kudos to David Gumpert for admitting he made a mistake and having the courage post his apology on this blog.
August 30, 2008 | Unregistered Commentercurious
Pro raw milk or anti raw milk- What of those who just believe it is a choice? It is no different that eating raw fish or fast foods; the potential for contamination is there.

"It shouldn’t matter how the contamination occurred"

Things matter when others are accused and the proof is lacking. If you accuse someone of something you need the proof to back up your accusations otherwise it holds no substance.

Unethical? I agree completely with Gwen.
August 30, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterSylvia
O.K. Sylvia, it’s a choice. Take away what’s being referred to as the propaganda of the tape and just watch the video. This is the worse care scenario of “the choice”. This is real. It happens to children, regardless of the choice: hamburger, lettuce, spinach or raw milk. This is the picture of E.coli 0157:H7 turned into HUS. While we are debating this case, there have been children in hospitals across the U.S. who have been contaminated with E.coli 0157:H7 turned HUS (from both raw milk and hamburger). Isn’t that just horrible!
August 30, 2008 | Unregistered Commentercurious
Hi Curious,

I was glad to see that Mr Gumpert apologized too however, after his apology, he goes right back to say that the Martins made a bad choice to show the video on Youtube and calls it propeganda again. His apology seems like a piece propeganda for himself. Thanks but no thanks.

As you have also pointed out, what does it matter how the child got sick? Its a clear picture of HUS and a child suffering for it. Its amazing how some writers here are so defensive and cold. The dairy farmer is especially cold. He comes off so heartless and arrogant. Whether there is proof or not, the comments he has made make him look really bad.
He has absolutely NO sympathy for these children.
August 30, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterDaily reader
David,
from previous posts you blasted the journalist that wrote the Harpers magazine Article, the AP and you also blasted Amanda Rose for not checking Facts before they write. You have done the same. Calling yourself a journalist is a joke. I guess anyone who does not agree with your point of view is wrong. And sorry, your apologie is Pathetic. For anyone who keeps writing about rehashing old news, I would ask David, he seems to be rehashing this all the time with wrong information.
August 30, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterLisa
Curious,

Did someone say it wasn't terrible that anyone become ill? Or when anyone becomes injured from an accident? I saw the you tube video, it appeared to be marler's propaganda, exploiting the child. Shameful.

"worse care scenario "

What about the kid that flips on his bike, has a helmet on and snaps his neck--- left trach & vent dependent, and don't forget the feeding tube and suprapubic cath? Should we ban bikes? Or those who dive into a pool? Or car accidents? Or amusement rides? What about those who are allergic to peanuts? Or seafood? Shall we ban them too?

Doesn't the cdc web site show that the over-all picture of illness is not caused by raw dairy? Perhaps all the other foods should be banned? Starting with the most common carriers of "bad" pathogens. That was we can prevent more illnesses. By golly Curious you are on to something!

Are you going to push for all foods to be sterilized? It's always "horrible" whenever anyone becomes sick or injured.
August 30, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterSylvia
http://www.pryordailytimes.com/local/local_story_243123512.html

Someone on this blog referred to others as bottom feeders.... the ads at the bottom are not different than ambulance chasers.
August 30, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterSylvia
Lisa,
To call David a joke as a journalist is just showing your own inability to show compassion. How cruel to say his apology is pathetic, just because he is standing with his original opinion. It seems if the pro choice people stand firm to preserve these rights -YOUR RIGHT - to choose , the more you try to prove them wrong and continue arguing the same emotional arguments.

Concerned Reader called some of the writers "defensive and cold" . Well sorry ,but I haven't got any warm fuzzies from anyone on this blog. I don't expect it as this is a venue for us to express ourselves and we should be able to give and take without getting nasty or expecting agreement.

You cannot say that "the dairy farmer has absolutely no sympathy for the children" . Only God knows that - I can think of many a doctor , nurse, teacher, or lawyer that I could say the same about if I was a critical person and just judged them on that part of their personality. Maybe he is not reacting the way you want but I know being the compassionate bloggers you are you will understand that not everyone shares warm fuzzies the way you do. And some are just not so good at choosing the right words.
Doesn't mean they don't care.

Someone approached the Martins at a very emotionally draining time, and the video was put on youtube. So without a complete explanation from the Martins , we can only speculate. That is not fair to anyone . In MY Opinion , it looks like someone took advantage of them - Like I posted before - IF the intent was to educate the public on the risks of eating anything ,or the effects of HUS, it would have been professionally done, included health care professionals, and would have circulated through health organizations etc. first -not YouTube.

Yes, it is horrible that children are sick in hospitals. For ANY reason. It is horrible when they suffer from abuse , cancer, AIDS, or anything else. But just gasping "how horrible"doesn't solve anything - neither does debating unless it is part of the process of research and treatment .We will never be able to protect our kids against everything.

If you feel information is wrong - post a correction with the link to back it up. I am sure any journalist would appreciate another source to research .
August 30, 2008 | Unregistered CommenterA real farmer
curious,



"The truth is shocking. A deadly bacterium caused this condition."

The "condition" you are referring to is HUS.The cause of the HUS was not the bacterium alone.The odds of deveolping HUS jumped from 8% to 56% when the first antibiotic was administered.The second one only served to make HUS inevitable.(see below)


http://www.bio-medicine.org/medicine-news/Antibiotic-induces-liver-damage-in-children-with-E-COLI-infections--234-1/


" The strain of bacteria known as E. coli 0157:H7 causes some of the most serious digestive infections in both children and adults. Infections with this organism are often caused by eating undercooked meat. A major study shows using antibiotics to treat children with E. coli bacterial infection increases the risk of developing a potentially deadly liver disorder.

"Our data suggests that antibiotics are not only not helpful, but are potentially harmful in children with diarrhea caused by E. coli 0157," says study co-author, Dr. Phillip Tarr, of the Children's Hospital and Regional Medical Center and the University of Washington in Seattle.

Children infected with E. coli develop both a very mild illness or severe bloody diarrhea. Infection can also lead to hemolytic-uremic syndrome (HUS),a condition leading to red blood cell breakdown.HUS is one of the leading causes of acute liver failure in young children.


The study examined children with diarrhea caused by E. coli and found 56% of the children who were given antibiotics developed HUS compared to just 8% of those who were not treated with antibiotics.


56% OF CHILDREN TREATED WITH ANTIBIOTICS DEVELOPED HUS AS COMPARED TO 8% OF THOSE WHO DID NOT.

On the basis of this study it should be made a practice to prescribe antibiotics only after the stool tests confirm that E.Coli is not the cause of the illness."

http://www.thecompletepatient.com/journal/2007/4/1/memoir-of-a-raw-milk-illness-turned-medical-nightmare-part-1.html

9/8 Friday:
"He also stated explicitly to the resident doctors that at no time should Chris be given antibiotics until the cause of the presenting symptoms is identified. He stated that giving antibiotics could make things much worse if this is e-coli.

(Note: I spoke with P.U., Health Plan Representative, on November 20, and she stated that Dr. A’s concerns about antibiotic administration are written into the record.)

Dr. A also stated that morphine could not be administered for my son’s cramping because if it was a virus it could cause him to become constipated."

***********************************************************************************************
9/9 Saturday:
" (After consultation among several doctors) the first antibiotic (was ordered): Flagyl. "
9/10 Sunday:
" A second antibiotic was ordered: Claforan."


I believe that the doctors used the antibiotcs because they were desperate and they didn't have any other treatment to offer.Had they only known what many farmers know they could have treated the diarreah without using antibiotics.If on entering the hospital,when chris was still able to keep some liqiud down,they had administered probiotics in small amounts regularily while making sure he did not become dehydrated,whatever his body was working so hard to eliminate could have been replaced with the type of bacteria that would stop the growth of the offending bacterium.


http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1201237

"The adhesion of lactobacilli to receptors on surface epithelial cells could compete for binding sites with enteric pathogens. It is also possible that lactic acid-producing bacteria reduce both the viability and the virulence properties of E. coli O157:H7 (6) and other diarrheagenic E. coli (19). In this study, we have demonstrated that these probiotics affect the virulence of E. coli O157:H7 and E. coli E2348/69 by factors other than their ability to reduce the pH or produce lactic acid. The ability of these probiotic strains to attenuate the pathogen-induced drop in TER at neutral pH values strongly supports this contention. Several previous reports indicated that factors other than lactic acid produced by probiotics, including bacteriocins, proteinases, peroxides, and exopolysaccharides, could exert antibacterial effects (3, 32). However, nondigestible oligosaccharides have not proven to be effective alternatives to viable probiotics in experimental animal models of bacterium-induced diarrheal disease (22, 30)."


The problem with antibiotics in diarreah is that it is damaging to the kidneys when the patient is dehydrated because the effect of a large dieoff of bacteria is to greatly increase the amount of toxins that need to be filtered from the blood. The blood is already flowing poorly because of dehydration.

The first antibiotic greatly increased the number of toxins in the blood.When bacteria die,the remains need to be eliminated like any other toxin even if those particular bacteria were not pathogens.The second antibiotic was given to kill a different type of bacteria.when those bacteria died their corpses needed to be eliminated also.

The true source of Chris' illness has never been determined.The bacterium was never traced to any of the foods he ate.
August 30, 2008 | Unregistered Commentermiguel
Syliva, exactly what I thought your response would be. You’d go on with a list of other horrible illness, accidents, etc…instead of just answering the question about E.coli and HUS. I think it is too much for the brain to actually process the reality of ingesting this bacterium.
August 30, 2008 | Unregistered Commentercurious
Member Account Required
Register or Log In to leave comments. Click the links here or in the upper right part of the page.