We really are nice people here at this blog. Here these regulators in New York, and elsewhere, are crapping all over dairy farmers, and Amanda Rose is wondering if absolutely positively every step in the lab test done for Lori and Darren McGrath is the same as that done for the state.
Take it from me, the tests are the samebased on long-established public health and government guidelines. The regulators, if they are reading the exchanges here, are laughing themselves silly at such a focus on the tests themselves.
How do I know they take us for fools? For starters, I know they wont talk about their tests in any meaningful way. I requested explanations from Will Francis, head of the Ag & Markets Division of Milk Control, and Jessica Chittenden, the Ag & Markets PR person, as to why the states test of the Autumn Valley Farm might have come out differently from a private labs tests following the same procedures, and they ignored my request. (You can go to their site and send your own emails to Francis and others at the division.)
Okay, nothing new there. They have made clear on any number of occasions they dont like the discussions that go on here, and have no intention of answering questions.
However, Chittenden did speak to one of the media that is more sympathetic to the Ag & Markets cause, The Oneonta Daily Star. It reported on the listeria finding at Autumn Valley Farm, just like I did, and it even contacted the McGraths, which is a huge step forward for a small-town rag like the Daily Star.
But true to its role as a government mouthpiece, it buried that important piece of information. So Chittenden talked to that paper, and essentially said the Ag & Markets test is right because, well, its the Ag & Markets test. Not only did Ag & Markets follow federal protocol, which all major labs doing such testing do, but, We have all the confidence in the world in the nationally renowned testing laboratory. So what the hell are these stupid farmers making such a stink about?
Actually, if you want to know more of the underlying motivations here, just read a recent blog posting by Chris Galen, the marketing vice president of the National Milk Producers Federation. This is the organization that represents most of the nation’s milk cooperatives, which handle much of the nations milk processing and distribution. He argues that this whole raw milk movement is going to be harassed out of business by legal actions against farm producers of raw milk. Aggressive suits represent the beginning of the end of the movement, he predicts.
When I challenged him on his blog about the seriousness of the public health problem posed by raw milk, he said I was missing the point. Which is? …the point is that there is now much greater financial incentive for them (victims) to come forward and through the tort process seek redress for their illnesses.
What we are seeing with these fraudulent listeria cases by New Yorks Ag & Markets is an example of legal harassment.
The regulators rationale is simple: Well go after a few producers, make their lives miserable, and make sure the word gets around to other producers, as well as conventional dairy farmers who may be thinking about getting in on the raw milk action. (As Lori McGrath states in her comment, many of these would-be producers have already gotten the message.) And well be providing lots of evidence to the ambulance chasers, who will do more of our work, and extract financial penalties from the farmers.
Let the farmers get independent split sample tests and video recordings of our screwups. Well just ignore them. Were the government and we can do what we want. We’re like the mafia. Whos going to stop us?
Now, as Gary Cox and others point out, if you get enough of such documentation, and give the regulators enough of their own Big Brother treatment, and file enough lawsuits against them, you may eventually get the attention of a sympathetic legislator or two.
As Ive said before, I think the economic incentives associated with the growing demand for raw milk will eventually lead to so much production it will overwhelm the regulators. A major article in yesterdays Washington Post about the growing acceptance of the Weston A. Price Foundations food philosophy is just the latest example of the changing public perceptions. But it will be a long haul, with casualties and lots of government laughter along the way.
Them’s fightin’ words… They don’t understand who they’re up against. An army of outraged, betrayed and enlightened moms, fighting for their children’s vitality. The truth is slowly but surely dawning; never underestimate our passion, courage, and wallets. They don’t stand a chance.
We’ll win eventually, because their children won’t be able to get a high school diploma, let alone procreate. Let them sink into orthodontic, constipated, diabetic obesity.
Ooh, I’ll probably pay for this post…:-)
Ducking and running,
-Blair
-Blair
Prohibition didn’t work, neither will thier attempts to outlaw raw dairy. Snickering here- they be laughing now, the fat lady ain’t sung yet. As was posted about the added hormone, montsano (sp) is selling that part of their business? LOL The public won on that aspect, and they will come through on the raw dairy.
David, I took this quote from the blog link you posted. Numerous other people make this or a like statement. What makes these people think that raw milk drinkers ignore the potential for and/or contamination of raw milk? Anything can be contaminated
….tomatoes, peppers, meats, poultry, etc.
I agree with you, in part. Prohibition of alcohol was a failure – society enjoys the benefits of a buzz, and pays dearly for the health consequences.
Raw milk is very much the same, except far fewer people choose to drink up. As you expand the distribution of this product, the illnesses, outbreaks, and eventually deaths will pile-up. Will society continue to support raw milk because of its great health benefits, while they watch kids go on dialysis? Does raw milk give enough of a buzz to keep society excited about the product?
Rhianna
Of the whole group of known raw dairy consumers, in comparison (using the various links posted here over time) to pastureized dairy, raw dairy contamination has shown to be much less.
Society does enjoy the buzz from alcohol, and the consequences may affect the drinkers health, it has the potential to also affect those around them; traffic accidents, abuse, etc.
Society does appear to support the selling and consumption of putrid fast/processed foods, the over medicating of children, lack of discipline, poor health standards, gangs, etc. So why wouldn’t they support the choice of consuming raw dairy? Humph they’d be getting less chemicals added to their bodies, imagine that!
Society appears to support the contamination of other foods. Meat, poultry, vegatables, etc are still consumed. Why is raw dairy different? Who is pushing the fear mongering? What are they afraid of? If such a small amount consume raw dairy, why the clamp-down on the little guy? Again, when compared to other contaminated foods, raw dairy is a very tiny slice. Why aren’t the "powers that be" going after the real criminals-those who continue to sell contaminated products? Who is in whose pocket?
Why should the govt be allowed to say what I can and cannot consume? Who are they to say how I raise my family? Will they be dictating other foods? Will they be dictating my religion? How dare anyone stick their nose in my business.
I think society is slowly moving away from this. And that is a good thing.
To determine that I am pregnant, I could take two very basic pregnancy tests at an approved lab. One would give me a yes/no, one would give me a hormone level. Both are approved but they are both different. With my first, my level at 4 weeks was so low that I would have gotten a false negative on a qualitative test. All of this is to say that I am really not going to be too outraged over this particular instance unless someone can actually tell us what the tests were.
Amanda
The article is almost totally focussed on the drug/medical research aspects of these bugs, although Groopman does give substantial credit to Michael Pollan’s reporting that antibiotic resistance comes in not-insignificant measure through the antibiotics fed to animals in the food chain. This itself is not really news, since John Robbins (among many others, I’m sure) reported this significant avenue of mass inoculation years ago in his various vegetarian advocacies (Food Revolution).
The discussions which we’ve had on this blog concerning the balance of good/bad bugs and the largely not-understood dynamics of the 80% of human immune system which resides in the gut, were depressingly absent from Groopman’s reporting. To the extent that New Yorker readers rely on the mag for peeks into the latest in science and medicine (among other fields), they aren’t getting the latest thinking on how mother nature works, outside of the laboratories of drug companies and their myopic focus on technology and the war against bugs.
http://www.marlerblog.com/2008/07/articles/lawyer-oped/one-of-my-favorite-pictures/
If you are curious about the tests, do your due diligence and FOIA them.
Theres a multi-state E.coli 0157:H7 outbreak involving Nebraska Beef Ltd. Multiple people purchased beef from a Whole Foods Market in Massachusetts and are now ill, some being hospitalized. Its been identified as the matching blueprint to the outbreak. How disappointing that Whole Foods is selling crappy hamburger as natural or organic, and hopefully, not as grass fed. This is outright fraud. Integrity is lacking everywhere. I guess you not only need to know your farmer but you also need to know your market.
Go to Bill Marlers blog for details. With all the new clients, hes going to need to hire more attorneys at his firm.
kirsten — For my part, I would confirm that the tests were actually the same before going bananas over it. There are different tests for listeria just like there are different tests for pregnancy (see my example above). I expect the information is reasonably accessible to the farm in question. If no one but me is actually interested in whether these are the same tests, I guess it’s not all that important after all.
Gwen
I went to the Marler blog and found the Whole foods story and these new ones about raw milk illnesses!
http://www.marlerblog.com/2008/08/articles/legal-cases/e-coli-linked-from-cow-to-victims-and-simsbury-town-farm-dairy/
E. coli Linked from Cow to Victims and Simsbury Town Farm Dairy
Posted on August 9, 2008 by E. coli Lawyer
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The Courant reported this morning that the Connecticut State Department of Agriculture said Friday that the E. coli outbreak that seriously sickened five people who drank raw milk from the Town Farm Dairy most likely came from one cow.
http://www.marlerblog.com/2008/08/articles/case-news/update-campylobacter-infection-strikes-consumers-of-raw-milk-in-california/
UPDATE – Campylobacter Infection Strikes Consumers of Raw Milk in California
We have recently learned of individuals in Northern California who have become seriously ill after consuming raw cows milk tainted with the bacteria campylobacter. At least one person remains hospitalized after consuming the milk and developing Guillain-Barr (ghee-yan bah-ray) syndrome (GBS).
http://www.courant.com/news/local/fv/hc-simdairy.art09,02888400.story
This used to be a rare disorder, many develop it after getting the flu vacc too. Do you think there is a possibility of correlation?
http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec17/ch190/ch190e.html?qt=campylobacter&alt=sh
"Campylobacter normally inhabits the digestive tract of many domestic animals and fowl. Water may become contaminated from the feces of infected animals. The most common form of Campylobacter infection is gastroenteritis (see ), which may be acquired by drinking contaminated water, eating undercooked poultry or meat, or having contact with infected animals."
Some things just make you want to go hmmmmm.
Clin Microbiol Rev. 1998 Jul;11(3):555-67.
Campylobacter species and Guillain-Barr syndrome.
Nachamkin I, Allos BM, Ho T.
Since the eradication of polio in most parts of the world, Guillain-Barr
syndrome (GBS) has become the most common cause of acute flaccid paralysis. GBS
is an autoimmune disorder of the peripheral nervous system characterized by
weakness, usually symmetrical, evolving over a period of several days or more.
Since laboratories began to isolate Campylobacter species from stool specimens
some 20 years ago, there have been many reports of GBS following Campylobacter
infection. Only during the past few years has strong evidence supporting this
association developed. Campylobacter infection is now known as the single most
identifiable antecedent infection associated with the development of GBS.
Campylobacter is thought to cause this autoimmune disease through a mechanism
called molecular mimicry, whereby Campylobacter contains ganglioside-like
epitopes in the lipopolysaccharide moiety that elicit autoantibodies reacting
with peripheral nerve targets. Campylobacter is associated with several
pathologic forms of GBS, including the demyelinating (acute inflammatory
demyelinating polyneuropathy) and axonal (acute motor axonal neuropathy) forms.
Different strains of Campylobacter as well as host factors likely play an
important role in determining who develops GBS as well as the nerve targets for
the host immune attack of peripheral nerves. The purpose of this review is to
summarize our current knowledge about the clinical, epidemiological,
pathogenetic, and laboratory aspects of campylobacter-associated GBS.
This shows how vulnerable our entire meet supply is to E.coli 0157:H7. Even if you try to eat natural/organic beef, you could still become infected. I’m sure the same could happen with grass fed beef if they use an outside slaughter house that butchers factory farmed beef.
"The meat Whole Foods recalled came from Coleman Natural Foods, which unbeknownst to Whole Foods had processed it at Nebraska Beef, an Omaha meatpacker with a history of food-safety and other violations."
How sad that Whole Foods was unknowingly involved in this.
Contamination can happed anywhere with anything.
Whole Foods fails county health inspection
Napas new Whole Foods received an F grade in its first county food facility inspection.
http://www.napavalleyregister.com/articles/2008/02/16/news/local/doc47b692d06f320182789954.txt
Mice close Chicago Whole Foods
http://barfblog.foodsafety.ksu.edu/2008/07/articles/yuck-factor/mice-close-chicago-whole-foods/
As you already know, the Health Department closed our store after finding that we did not fully comply with a few concerns they had, including evidence of mice."
More on "know your retailer"
"How sad that Whole Foods was unknowingly ivolved in this."
http://www.marlerblog.com/2008/08/articles/legal-cases/nebraska-beef-ltd-is-recalling-1200000-million-pounds-of-primal-cuts-subprimal-cuts-and-boxed-beef-contaminated-with-e-coli-o157h7/
2) Why did Whole Foods keep selling Coleman product?
What store hasn’t let any customers down? I don’t shop at Whole Foods, it is out of my way.
Just think, if Whole Foods slaughtered their own beef, they would get away with crap like the processing place in Nebraska.
We can live without lawyers, politians, scientists, football players and even doctors but we cant live without farmers.
I fear that until farmers are held in greater esteem than those characters our problems as a nation will continue.
We have recently learned of individuals in Northern California who have become seriously ill after consuming raw cows milk tainted with the bacteria campylobacter. At least one person remains hospitalized after consuming the milk and developing Guillain-Barr (ghee-yan bah-ray) syndrome (GBS)."
What dairy was the raw milk from?
Alexander according to the post (but they aren’t a raw milk dairy?)
I believe Marlar’s web site said he "believes" it may have been a "cow share" at the dairy.
I could not find anywhere that they do cow shares. Nor that they sell raw dairy. It isn’t a small dairy. The only place I’ve seen the accusation was on Marlar’s site.
Correction;the dairy does sell raw dairy. I haven’t seen nor heard in the news about contamination. Googling only came up with Marlar’s web site regarding contamination at the dairy. Apparently the govt entities aren’t concerned with protecting the masses.
You broke down and visited the Marler site! This is interesting:
http://www.ecodairyfarms.com/business.htm
"Our organic values extend into our personal lives as well, in what we eat, how we live, and the products we use on a daily basis. Through one of our major health issues, we learned of the Weston A. Price Foundation, and believed so much in what it represents that we became Chapter leaders for our area."
Only to see who/what the accusations were. You find it interesting that the dairy farmers post their values? Why is that?
I have yet to see in the news media of the contamination. So it must not be true; otherwise I have no doubt that the govt entities would warn us poor lay people. We aren’t savvy enough to make our own informed choices….
You post a link where the writer doesn’t do their research:
"It is illegal to sell raw milk in California, "
Uh it is legal to sell in CA.
"Three cases of Campylobacter infections have been documented by Del Norte County health officials since late June, and the other 12 are awaiting confirmation."
Lets see, the raw milk was halted in June and it is now mid-Aug and they still don’t know? How bogus can they be?
"Alexandre also questions whether the Campylobacter came from his farm. He said he spoke to a person who is listed by the county health department as contracting the infection who said he didn’t even drink raw milk during the time of the outbreak."
Campylobacter is very common and with the "powers that be’s" record for shoddy research, I doubt we’ll know for sure where it came from. Was it found on the farm? I would expect it to be stated in the story, it was not. A slanted story for sure.
More Anti-Raw Milk Propaganda?
http://www.courant.com/news/local/fv/hc-simdairy0809.artaug09,0,2888400.story
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/287005_milk29.html
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002685611_webecoli15.html
http://ozarksfirst.com/content/fulltext/?cid=42231
http://www.triplicate.com/news/story.cfm?story_no=9851
Trying to be unbiased:
http://www.marlerblog.com/2008/06/articles/lawyer-oped/raw-milk-pros-review-of-the-peerreviewed-literature/
http://www.marlerblog.com/2008/06/articles/lawyer-oped/raw-milk-cons-review-of-the-peerreviewed-literature/
http://www.marlerblog.com/2008/04/articles/legal-cases/organic-pastures-where-there-is-smoke-there-is-fire/
Just so you remember that I am an "equal opportunity" lawyer, I am working on this case too:
http://www.marlerblog.com/2008/01/articles/legal-cases/4-people-dead-after-drinking-listerialaden-pasteurized-milk-from-massachusetts/