Why Is Bill Marler in Such a Foul Mood? Maybe Because the Raw Milk Pickings Aren’t So Easy Any More
Friday, September 12, 2008 at 02:04PM
The decision last week by a federal magistrate to ignore a plea deal and not impose probation on Anita and Michael Puckett of Dee Creek Farm (described in my previous post) seemed a small but decent gesture by a government official to say, at long last, enough is enough for this couple. The Pucketts made a mistake—perhaps they were naïve, perhaps they were careless, perhaps they were just too inexperienced in the process of producing raw milk—and had already paid a huge penalty for their error, in money and grief.
But germ lawyer Bill Marler can’t just let it go. On one of his food-poisoning blogs, Marler rails against the magistrate’s decision, saying she “took the old term 'slap on the wrist' to a new, much lower level in sentencing Woodland raw milk pushers Anita and Mike Puckett to--get this-- $25 in court fees after both plead guilty to federal Class A misdemeanors for spreading the raw milk that made 18 people sick in 2005."
Why is he so vindictive? These aren’t common criminals he’s talking about, nor are these corporate agribusinesses bigwigs. It also doesn’t seem there’s money for him to gain or lose here…or is there?
It turns out that things haven’t been as rosy for him on the raw milk front as he might like to make out. First, on the Dee Creek situation, he hasn’t just been a casual observer. His firm, MarlerClark, represented two families that sued Anita and Michael Puckett over their kids getting sick (not the two kids who were most seriously ill; the families of those two children have remained on cordial terms with the Pucketts), and eventually settled with the couple. Here is how the Pucketts describe the events in their pre-trial sentencing letter:
“On April 24, 2006 we received a letter from MarlerClark, a Seattle law firm specializing in food-borne illness lawsuits. They had been retained by two of the families that had been in our shareholding operation (not the two families who were hospitalized for a length of time). They suggested we have our legal representation contact them… On March 16, 2007 we entered into mediation attempting to find satisfactory resolution without going to court. The two families with their attorney from M & C came in asking for $600,000. We left disappointed that there was no resolution. The Judge who mediated persistently kept working on our case, and within a few weeks, it was settled…homeowner's insurance companies paid out some of the settlement (around $60,000), and we ended up paying $10,000 ourselves to settle.”
So it appears MarlerClark went into the deal asking for $600,000 and walked away with $70,000. After the usual one-third taken by the law firm, that left less than $25,000 per family—not the big payout Marler likes to brag about on his web site. Marler didn’t answer my request for comment.
More recently, Marler has apparently re-thought the posting on YouTube of the video showing Chris Martin on life support during September 2006, with a voice-over explaining how he and five other children had been sickened by raw milk from Organic Pastures Dairy Co. If you go to the link, the video is gone—one of those rare instances where propaganda evaporates from the ether.
What was behind the disappearance? I asked Mark McAfee about it, and he thinks it has to do with a letter he wrote to Marler, itemizing a number of alleged inaccuracies in the video, and concluding, “ You and your staff produced this inflammatory and unethical video and you are solely responsible for its content. You continue to allow it to be played on YouTube. Our company and my family name is being hurt unjustly as a direct result. I am offering you a remedy prior to us taking very strong legal action.” The remedy was removal of the video, along with a demand for an apology. The video has disappeared. Mark says there's been no apology. Once again, Marler refused to answer my request for his explanation of what happened to the video.
Another sign of the rising passions was a major heckling incident at the pro-SB 201 press conference in Southern California earlier this week, featuring actor Martin Sheen (shown in the photo above guzzling Organic Pastures raw milk, alongside state Sen. Dean Florez). It’s all described by the hecklers, who seem to be big admirers of Bill Marler, on their blog.
Not unrelated to all this is the latest imbroglio over an announcement by the California Department of Food and Agriculture that camphylobacter was found in a batch of cream from Organic Pastures Dairy Co.
Mark McAfee has posted his explanation of what he says happened, in comments following my previous posting about the Pucketts. Given all the concerns about possible false positives on listeria findings in New York and Pennsylvania, you have to think there might be something to Mark’s complaints—especially since, once again, no one has become ill.
But there’s a larger message in all this, I think. It concerns the need to challenge questionable or misleading information being disseminated by the anti-raw-milk crowd. I’m not saying there aren’t inaccuracies disseminated by the other side, but the anti crowd has a much bigger platform from which to operate. Press releases issued by state regulators and videos posted by major law firms carry huge amounts of clout. These kinds of things used to all be accepted as gospel truth by the media and public.
That's all changing, though, which may explain why Bill Marler is in such a foul mood.
Reader Comments (24)
He drinks to much....that is a quote from Bill himself. He says that heavy drinking is his answer to not getting food born illness. He says that the alcohol kills the bad bugs. (See this interview:
http://haphazardgourmet.blogspot.com/2008/07/what-to-eat-during-chowpocalypse.html)
The Haphazards are truly that....they hate raw milk but yet love sushi and Bill Marler.
Not sure what they like or want.....really Haphazard. Sushi and raw milk are in the same category of foods.
Both raw and delicious.
Update on our raw cream recall. Had two calls today from consumers, both wanted to special order our September 12th raw cream so they could build immuniy from Campylobacter. I told them no for fear of the FDA claiming that I was selling a regulated drug.
Mark Mcafee
If the cream is supposedly contaminated, why would they not also accuse the milk as being contaminated?
Sushi? yuck, at least I have seen where my milk comes from.
1) the purpose of a recall is to prevent illnesses by warning removing contaminated product before it is consumed, if possible (often it's too late with something perishable like cream)
2) I've been baffled by why Dairy A would want more frequent pathogen testing per SB 201, but finally "get it." Each time a positive test occurs (and they will occur because the dairies won't be able to pay-off a private lab to give them negative results)....the response every time will be " the positive result is fake, falsified, and/or samples were mishandled."
3) Someone mentioned studies to look at the health effects of drinking raw milk - maybe diminished intellectual capacity should be added as one of the potential effects. Just wondering, since the inability to recognize humor is a sign of inferior brain power (perhaps try adding scotch).
4) All is fair in political discussions, but use of personal attacks on individuals with different opinions in place of logical and specific points about one's position is a clear sign that the "other side's" argument has significant weakness (thus, hide these by changing the subject to an opponent's character, position, et.c). This character attack froute also leads to loss of credibility for those familiar with the tactic in politics.
Sad because sometimes the participants on this board have been very insightful, but guess this is where things end-up when the pressure's on.
Concerned
The CDFA OPDC product pathogen samples were accidentally sent to a chemistry lab in Sac instead of the pathogen lab in LA. This is interesting because this caused a 1200 mile multiday screw up for our raw cream samples. CDFA admitted to this mistake today at a meeting at our dairy. They deny that the samples were opened. I have no way to confirm this. Pathogen labs have pathogens in them. Thats where people send pathogens. ?? The entire delay detour is just very weird and irregular and is associated with the first detected raw cream Campylobacter test we have ever had.
The bottom line is this, we would have had our results back nearly a week earlier if the 1200 mile detour had not been made. The raw milk that created the raw cream tested negative for Campylobacter. There were no illnesses from our raw cream. It took 10-12 days of culturing in a technical soup that was devoid of oxygen and had three specialized antibiotics added to get this Campylobacter to grow. Lastly, Campy is not a Coliform, so AB 1735 failed miserably. It does not matter how low the coliform count is, Campylobacter can be present. In this case the source raw milk tested at 6 coliforms...super clean milk.
I own the Campylobacter recall. It is mine and we have managed it. Our HACCP plan will do even more after SB 201 is passed to control possible Campylobacter in the future.
Remember, 25% of the population tests positive for Campy in their stool samples. Once you have it you are generally immune for life. Now I have consumers calling and wanting our recalled raw cream. They want to make sure that they have immunity from Campylobacter.
This just really shows the battle fronts clearly. Those that want immunity from natural sources and probiotics and those that want to sterilize them selves with antibiotics and perhaps alcohol.
It was really good to sit down with CDFA inspectors today and discuss our sample management concerns openly and honestly. I respect our inspectors and the explanation they provided and they take us very seriously as well. I really look forward to working with them after SB 201 is signed. They told me what I think is the truth and also spent time with my son in our Silo room giving him some great advice on how to shorten our milk pipe line. Perhaps this battle has finnally brought us closer.
All the best,
Mark McAfee
I understand the screw up with sending the samples to the wrong labs. I was asking because it didn't make since to me. Since cream comes from milk, and the cream is "supposedly" contaminated, I would expect the milk to also be supposedly contaminated, since they come from the same place.
I was wondering as to why the cream supposedly has it and not the milk. Thanks for responding.
Do you have a reference for this statistic? "Remember, 25% of the population tests positive for Campy in their stool samples."
Correct, Campylobacter is not a coliform, but it is a bacteria found commonly in cattle and many other aniimal feces. Here's an interesting post: http://barfblog.foodsafety.ksu.edu/2008/09/articles/food-safety-communication/sarah-palin-what-will-you-do-about-sandhill-cranes-pooping-on-peas-and-giving-alaskans-campylobacter/index.html
Campylobacter grows in reduced oxygen environments (like guts), so a good lab reproduces those conditions and takes away the oxygen during culture. Anitbiotics are used to knock-down competing bacteria and help "find" the campys in the culture. Yup, there are bacteria in raw milk, poop, water, and other sources that compete with campylobacter - using antibiotics is a lab technique to sort through the complexity. In the human gut, the same competition goes on, but sometimes the campylobacter wins. In reality, even with the antibiotics, it can be very difficult to find campylobacter in a culture (when it is found, that probably means the levels were pretty high to begin with).
In the worst case scenario in the gut, if the campy wins the battle with the other bacteria, the patient's own immune system might turns against itself and create an auto-immune disease that is like botulism (GBS). Sure, it is rare and some people might go on to develop long-term immunity after just having the runs. But, are you really comfortable taking the chance that some people might not be so lucky? Playing with fire, IMHO, to try to create a "raw milk poop vaccine," in lieu of good sanitation (measured, in part, by coliforms, SPC, and SCC), plus use of pathogen testing (with good techniques) and recalls when sh*t happens.
Thanks.
If somebody else is concerned, they can always choose pasteurized milk.
"This week, a collection of 15 Central Valley almond farmers and brokers sued the federal government in an effort to overturn a year-old pasteurization requirement that has effectively banned "
Hopefully this growing group ,with all foods, will speed up before the battle for freedom of choice becomes like prohibition.
Growing up we had an almond tree. None of us ever got sick from eating them. Nor did any of us get sick from the fresh produce we grow. And we use cow poo and a little chicken poo. I like my eggs overeasy and home made mayo.
Despite this despicable behaviour they have the full support of a rotten bureaucracy that coddles them - as well as corporations like Bear-Stearns - so they never have to accept the consequences of their actions. This happens again and again to the great expense of everyone else.
"due to potential bacterial contamination" "Other action to ensure the safety of the public will depend upon the results of pending laboratory tests and the joint investigation by the Health and Agriculture departments."
When any entity is falsely accused, and the results of testing do not prove any pathogens came from the accused. Can the accused farmers sue the govt and the media?
http://ucanr.org/spotlight/groundwater.shtml
http://news.medill.northwestern.edu/chicago/news.aspx?id=89749
This area is not where I'd want to live. Just imagine the contamination. Why are these legal?
The Pennsylvania Department of Health is warning consumers who purchased raw milk from Hendricks Farm & Dairy of Telford, Montgomery County, to immediately discard the raw milk and any items made with the raw milk due to potential bacterial contamination. Raw milk is milk that has not been pasteurized.
Recently, individuals who consumed raw milk purchased from the dairy were found to have gastrointestinal illness due to Campylobacter, a bacterial infection. Since September 1, a total of seven confirmed cases of Campylobacter infection have been reported among raw milk drinkers in seven unrelated households in Pennsylvania and a neighboring state. Other individuals in these households have also experienced similar gastrointestinal illness. The investigation is ongoing.
The Department of Agriculture today suspended the farm's raw milk permit and instructed the owner to stop selling raw milk for human consumption until the permit is reinstated. The Department of Agriculture will require two raw milk samples drawn at least one day apart to be tested negative for bacterial pathogens before raw milk sales may resume.
Give me a break - make your product safer, stop causing outbreaks, and the government will go away, gladly. There are more desirable things to do like organizing and attending co-worker birthday potlucks.
@Concerned.
I'm not implying that government workers are trying to fabricate anything. As far as government taking "great joy" in harassing people, I doubt they really do. They are just doing their job, just like anybody else. The people at the top, the ones that make the decisions are the ones that are interest me. They are the ones that decide to go after people like the Pucketts. Like Mark has said before, the CDFA inspectors he works with are professional people.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed..." Declaration of Independence [emphasis mine].
"An analysis of standing begins with a determination of whether the party seeking relief has sustained an injury (see Society of Plastics Indus. v. County of Suffolk, 77 N.Y.2d 761, 772-773, 570 N.Y.S.2d 778, 573 N.E.2d 1043 [1991])." Mahoney v. Pataki, 772 N.E.2d 1118, 1122 (N.Y. 2002).
"To adjudicate upon, and protect the rights and interests of individual citizens, and to that end to construe and apply the laws, is the peculiar province of the judicial department...The judicial power "is the power to hear and determine those matters which affect the life, liberty, or property of the citizens of the state." (City of Sapulpa v. Land, 101 Okl. 22, 223 P. 640, 644, 35 A.L.R. 872, 878.)" Nash v. Brooks, 297 N.Y.S. 853, 855-856.
While a New York case about corpus delecti was not presented, it's still applicable and every "state" surrounding New York has a relevant series of cases:....
[Pennsylvania] "It has long been fundamental to the criminal jurisprudence of thie Commonwealth that a necessary predicate to any conviction is proof of the corpus delecti, i.e., the occurrence of any injury or loss and someone's criminality as the source of this injury or loss. See Commonwealth v. Burns, 490 Pa. 619, 627, 187 A.2d 552, 556-557 (1963); Commonwealth v. Turza, 340 Pa. 128, 133, 16 A.2d 401, 404 (1940)." Commonwealth v. Maybee, 239 A.2d 332, 333.
From what you wrote I deduct that you are well informed, probably a doctor a biologist or maybe even an FDA or state level inspector type.
I do not answer people that do not use real names. My personal policy. Kind of like, our constitution, we have the right face our accusors.
I have multiple citations for the science I quote. I have spoken at Stanford Medical School, Rutgers, PASA, NOFA and WAP. I do not quote un substantiated facts.
I have citations of published University studies that show raw milk drinkers develop immunity ( antibody titers )to Campylobacter and lots of other great stuff.
You can GOOGLE just like me....it is all out there.
Why do you not come out and use your name. I use mine and I stand behind nothing when I sell my precious raw milk to people that deeply respect me and need this food for their lives.
Here in cyberspace where ideas are shared and concepts are born and reticuled, it is essential that those that participate use there names.
Please stand and be counted.
If I sound a little extra passionate and rebellious today, it is because of what happened yesterday at the Fresno Farmers Market. One of our long standing consumers came to me with the warmest thank you and said that her husdand had just survived two months of cancer therapy and the only thing he could ( or wanted ) to drink was OPDC raw milk. She said this is " gold to me" becasue it keeps her husband alive. Her husband is doing well and and she was incredibly happy to be able to have our products. Another long term consumer came to me and wanted to know if Arnold had signed SB 201. He said " I rely on your raw milk for my asthma and if SB 201 fails or your raw milk becomes unavailable, I am screwed".
Thats why I stay passionate.....I have the life force of thousands of people coursing through my existance....I will not give up this fight no matter what.
And the answer is yes.....the benefits far far out weight the risks when it comes to natural immunity and raw milk. Raw milk is a choice and no one forces any one to drink it.
All the best,
Mark McAfee