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Saturday
31Jan2009

Second Thoughts on Private Lab Tests and the Meaning of Search Warrants and Possible Jail Time for Sharon Palmer

I’ve been feeling some uncertainty and discomfort about my two most recent posts.

1. On the uncertainty front, I’ve found myself thinking about the private lab tests in ways that never occurred to me previously. In my Jan. 29 post, I made this point: “There is definitely a valid ethical question deserving consideration about the responsibility of farmers and food producers to warn consumers and possibly recall product if private lab tests show pathogens.” But I didn’t explain further.

So I found myself wondering: Suppose a raw dairy conducting its own private lab tests learned a milk sample contained a pathogen. Or even further out there, suppose a raw dairy did a split sample test with the state, and the state’s report came back negative, and the private lab report came back positive?

What would/should the dairy’s response in such a situation be? I’ve never considered such possibilities because the reality over the last couple years has been that of state labs coming up with positive pathogen tests—especially in Pennsylvania and New York—and private labs coming up empty. But reading a commentary Lynn McGaha linked to gave me pause.

I had never even thought of such questions until this past week, when the Peanut Corp. of America scandal broke, and we learned this company didn’t recall product after a dozen private tests showed salmonella. And then Lykke, in comments on the Dennis Wenger and peanut posts, raised a number of serious questions about how food producers should approach lab testing.

It’s tempting (at least for me) to think that raw dairies tend to be small and scrupulous enough that they don’t have pathogen problems to begin with and, if they do, their customers have built up sufficient immunity that occasional contamination wouldn’t be a problem in any event. Moreover, the knowledge that a screwup would be much more costly than for any corporate food producer is a huge incentive to self police. But, as I said, I have this bit of uncertainty...

2. On the discomfort front, there is my previous posting about Sharon Palmer.

I was angry when I wrote my post—not always the best way to be writing. Robert Monahan in his comment makes the point better than I did: The search warrant was likely written the way it was to conform to legal requirements, and avoid mistaken identity. More important, he questions why California is doing sending “agriculture police” around to make trouble at small sustainable farms.

I did a little more checking and it turns out the reason a search warrant was even issued by a judge in this case was because the potential violations of law here are felonies. California, unlike other states like New York, doesn’t allow so-called administrative search warrants, such as the kind used to abuse Barb and Steve Smith of Meadowsweet Dairy.

Robert points out that the affidavit from the officers to the judge should provide more information. Unfortunately, in this particular case, the affidavit appears to be “sealed”—at least, I haven’t been able to track it down via the courts as yet, and sealing is accepted protocol in California felony investigations.

The problem for Sharon Palmer is that being found guilty of producing raw milk without a license and pasteurized milk products from an unlicensed facility are both felonies in California, punishable by anywhere from a year to three years in jail on each count. We’re talking a serious case here. Yes, a judge can decide to suspend the jail time and apply probation for a first-time offender. But you have to hope for a lenient judge—not the ideal legal position to be in.

The bigger question is this: Why are the authorities using extreme force to go after someone like Sharon Palmer, and on felony charges, no less? Part of my discomfort is about the argument I’ve heard from a few people: The sheriff has access to more information than I do, and I could wind up eating my words in defending Sharon, or anyone else. If we didn’t have the accumulation of other cases (Mark Nolt, Manna Storehouse) illustrating how the authorities use and abuse our legal guarantees to their advantage, I might be even more uncomfortable.

Okay, got those things off my chest.

 

Reader Comments (56)

David,

I think it is valuable and brave to look back at posts and re-consider, especially if new information comes to light. I certainly do (whether it's on a blog or elsewhere). I also think you are valid in questioning how the legal system is applied with regard to small farmers (and unpastuerized dairy) compared with large, corporate entitites. Hope I'm not copying too much of this article that came out on the AP a couple hours ago, but sure would be interesting to dig deeper into the list of arrests/convictions and see how the percentages break down with regard to food products and nutritional supplements.

Feds rarely file charges in tainted food cases

http://tinyurl.com/bmxlzs

"Part of that system is the ability to penalize the people that fail," said Michael Taylor, a food safety scientist at George Washington University. "And there's been a real failure to do so at the federal and state level."

The Food and Drug Administration said it doesn't track food-related prosecutions separately, but said its investigative arm logged 341 arrests and 279 convictions in 2006. Many of those involved counterfeit medicines and faulty or tampered products, which also fall under its jurisdiction.

Recent convictions include the 1996 case against juice-maker Odwalla Inc., which was fined $1.5 million on charges of shipping unpasteurized apple juice that killed a baby.

Five years later, Sara Lee Corp. was fined $200,000 after pleading guilty to misdemeanor charges of selling tainted meats in a listeria outbreak that killed 15 people.

The FDA also points to prosecutions in lower-profile cases, such as the 2007 conviction of a man who made false reports to investigators after a mix-up led to antibiotics being dumped into unpasteurized milk at a New York farm.
January 31, 2009 | Registered CommenterLykke
"......state labs coming up with positive pathogen tests—especially in Pennsylvania ..... —and private labs coming up empty....."

I would hope you acknowledge that you have an ethical and moral obligation to refrain from making statements which have no factual basis. Agreed? I think that is generally called lying, but perhaps in this instance more politely called "fabrication."

Please support this statement with even one instance when a split sample tested by both PA's state lab and a private lab resulted in PA's state lab reporting a positive pathogen finding and the private lab reporting a negative pathogen finding. You will not be able to. It has never, ever happened.

It is false statements like this that do not advance a healthy dialogue with regulators but just perpetuate misinformation to the readers of this blog and destroy any credibility you have.
January 31, 2009 | Registered CommenterRegulator
regulator, do some research into pda before you spout your dogma ("it has never, ever happened") and call someone a lier.

in fact it has happened at least twice in recent months.

you're on the edge of blowing any cred you may wish to establish/hold here. plus it proves you don't really follow this blog since the documented evidence is here in prior posts. do you have a lacky scan the blog and alert you to topics you feel a need to discredit, smear? maybe you need to assign them the task of looking it up for you?
January 31, 2009 | Registered Commenterhugh betcha
"Why are the authorities using extreme force"

That is a very good question. Why are they? What purpose does it serve?

http://www.thecompletepatient.com/journal/2008/3/3/the-state-as-deity-even-when-caught-ny-ag-markets-cant-admit.html

"And the Cornell lab told Chuck its test is more sensitive than the Ag and Markets test."

No lieing nor fabrication; Stumps (sp) dairy begs to differ with you. If it occurs in NY, there is no doubt that it occurs elsewhere.

http://www.thecompletepatient.com/journal/2007/9/18/the-strange-case-of-salmonella-at-americas-second-largest-ra.html
January 31, 2009 | Registered CommenterSylvia Gibson
I guess the powers that be like sara lee better than odwalla; 1.5 mil for killing one and only 200000 for killing 15....American justice.
January 31, 2009 | Registered CommenterSylvia Gibson
Hugh Betcha and Sylvia Gibson state there is evidence of differing pathogen results on split samples between PA's state lab and a private lab. The only evidence cited is the following re: Glendora Stump:

"Antonette called Glendora, who sent someone to pick up the remaining three-and-a-half gallons of milk, which she sent out to a private lab. Test results (copies of which Glendora sent me): negative for salmonella. But the state in its own tests of other milk from the dairy says it found salmonella."

This of course doesn't involve a split sample, as Mr. Gumpert and I were both addressing. Mr. Gumpert understands the significance of a split sample. He said:

"Or even further out there, suppose a raw dairy did a split sample test with the state, and the state’s report came back negative, and the private lab report came back positive? What would/should the dairy’s response in such a situation be? I’ve never considered such possibilities because the reality over the last couple years has been that of state labs coming up with positive pathogen tests—especially in Pennsylvania and New York—and private labs coming up empty."

This dialogue can only be advanced if there is an understanding that a sample from Farm A can contain a particular pathogen and a separate sample of milk at Farm A from a different tank, different day, and even same cow but separate milking, can be negative. That is the nature of cows, milk, pathogens and milking equipment. The presence of a particular pathogens in milk from Farm A is evidence that "other milk" from Farm A may contain that pathogen. However, "other milk" from Farm A may not contain that pathogen. Mr. Gumpert understands that, hence the significane of discussing "split samples," i.e the very same milk sample split and tested by two different labs.

Again, Mr. Gumpert was mistaken in this post and he should acknowledge that here.
January 31, 2009 | Registered CommenterRegulator
A number of these cases against the raw dairy farmers began with the states sending in undercover agents, undercover agents are by definition liars and deceivers. So for one to even believe the claims of positive pathogen test results by the state is a bit difficult since their intent was to destroy the farmer from the begining. It is shamefull for the nation when the greatest fear a farmer faces is the state. The state if anything should be a partner with the small raw dairy farmer to help produce pure health producing foods not his enemy as it is today.
January 31, 2009 | Registered CommenterDon Wittlinger
Dialogue? Personally, I feel that it's already half past pitchforks and torches.
January 31, 2009 | Registered CommenterRobert Monahan
I commend David for this post. I also appreciate Regulator’s clarification of split sample tests. I continue to be disheartened by hugh beta’s lack of manners.

The bottom line in testing for foodborne pathogens—food needs to be safe, regardless of the type of food.

I would hope if a private lab sample of raw milk tested positive for a pathogen the dairy farmer would notify the consumers. I think this falls under the category “trust your farmer”. With a cow share arrangement, that would be easy, but in states where raw milk is sold in stores, it gets more complicated. Are the stores notified and the product pulled off the shelf as if the state had issued a recall? Is the dairy farmer required to notify the state of a positive pathogen test? These are thought provoking questions?

The raw milk movement tends to deny the possibility of raw milk outbreaks. Not unlike White Supremacists who deny the Holocaust or a sect of conservative Christians who deny the existence of dinosaurs because they are not mentioned in the Bible.

When there is written information promoting the belief that raw milk has antimicrobial properties, I worry that a raw milk farmer may remain quiet if a private lab test came back positive, believing that the raw milk would “take care of pathogen business” and all will be well with the milk.

There are raw milk dairy farmers who comment often on this blog. I would love to hear their thoughts on this topic and how they would handle a positive pathogen test on a sample of raw milk.

cp
January 31, 2009 | Registered CommenterConcerned Person
Regulator,

I was going to post something later on the "split sample" confusion, but you covered it. When it comes to reporters/media, I am pleased after an interview if they get the difference between a virus and a bacteria (how many times have the media reported something about "the E. coli virus," argh), let alone correctly describing the nuances of laboratory testing and what a split sample means. No insult meant toward you or David (he is getting information from all directions and seems to be trying to sort through it along with the ethical issues).

My 2 cents: the raw dairy producers could really benefit if they used a neutral, food safety consultant. At $12-20/gallon, why not add a few cents into the cost passed on to consumers and hire a smart, reputable, and unbiased food safety expert on an as-needed basis with the following criteria:
1) no strong feelings for or against raw dairy
2) extensive experience in food microbiology and laboratory testing, GMPs, HACCP, etc.
3) extensive experience in local/state/federal regulations relating to raw dairy and farming/processing/marketing

Calling each other "liers" is rather unproductive...I will probably get flamed to a crisp for suggesting that raw dairy farmers could benefit from some unbiased food microbiology consultation, but have seen so many statements by farmers here that reflect confusion about lab tests, HACCP, etc. Farmers should farm. There is nothing wrong with seeking expert advise about the government and private lab test results and their interpretation...and, it might add credibility to what I think is the bigger focus in this movement (food rights), vs. misuse of terminology including some of the endless debates and confusion about the content of state outbreak reports...
January 31, 2009 | Registered CommenterLykke
Lykke,
Your tinyurl link didn't work.

Concerned Person,
I am disheartened by your tiresome repetition that "the raw milk community tends to deny the possibility of raw milk outbreaks". What is your evidence for this? I don't believe anyone here denies the possibility of raw milk pathogens, and that possibility has been repeatedly affirmed on this blog. We're just not into the fear-mongering of the "food safety" folks. My biggest fear is that someone with whatever Chris Martin had (Shiga?) will be inappropriately treated with antibiotics, because I suspect the medical paradigm these days is to reflexively give antibiotics. And thus a recoverable illness will turn into HUS and the patient permanently damaged. Have any of the people campaigning for food safety spent any effort trying to train medical people to recognize when antibiotics will be harmful?

You wrote "The bottom line in testing for foodborne pathogens-food needs to be safe, regardless of the type of food." I believe that is too narrow a focus. Food safety needs to be viewed in the larger context that food should provide nourishment for our bodies. You can sterilize food and make it free from foodborne pathogens, but I believe you are also removing the nourishment from it. I prefer to take my chances with live food that has not been processed, irradiated, microwaved, pasteurized, GMOed, or dosed with daily antibiotics as a precautionary measure. I agree I will not be nourished by food that makes me acutely sick, but I believe so-called safe food such as pastuerized milk (and people have become ill and died from that too) and irradiated meat may well lead to chronic illness.

As Regulator explains, testing for foodborne pathogens can be problematic. The tested sample might have the pathogen in it, or it might not. Instead of relying on a test to possibly catch an elusive pathogen, I think we'd all be better off by taking steps to improve our immunity. I kefir all my raw milk, I eat pastured beef, lamb, chickens, and eggs from local farmers, and I eat lacto-fermented foods (home-made sauerkraut, beet kvass, ketchup, sourdough waffles and baked goods). I even make my peanut butter from shelling Valencia peanuts that were shipped to me from New Mexico. Yes, it's more time-consuming than using industrial food, and I'm not even raising the animals or growing my own garden (yet).

As Pasteur said on his deathbed, the pathogen is nothing, the terrain is everything. Improving the terrain takes work (as above) and is an individual responsibility. But the money is made by following the pathogen.
February 1, 2009 | Registered CommenterLynn McGaha
All this testing crap is moot...if the farmer (or producer) is creating the product in the proper way AND feeding the product to their kids. The motivation for testing shouldn't be fear of a lawsuit. Large commercial operations where the producer is removed from the consumer is fraught with problems (see the PCA). Those that are producing with the sole purpose of 'making money' create the situations that lykee and her regulator friends like to harp on. This is why the large commercial operations are a bad idea...and the notion that MM is pushing conventional dairyman to switch to raw because it's more profitable is really, really scary......

Large commercial operations dictate this kind of oversight...and this is why the small farmer, producing milk for a close circle of 'people they know' is the best guarantee of the quality of the product. Store shelves is a different world. The problem comes, when the regulations that are necessary for the mega producers, are extrapolated to the small, real family farm, farm share type operations......

It's absolutely imperative that the milk be the most important thing...NOT how many gallons you are making, or what your profit margin is for that month. Investors (and commercial dairymen) don't want to buy into that kind of alternative view...examining motivations is critical.....Less can be (and indeed is) more.

The lack of trust of the regulators by the raw milk community is totally justified....given the actions of those with power. There is an agenda here, and it's not 'making raw milk safer for everyone'. Acceptance by the regulatory community is the only way that the raw milk community will ever 'play ball'....Russian roulette, and the misinformation that is constantly put out by the 'authorities', creates a wall of distrust that shows no sign of being broken down. Big Dairy will never stand for that (they feel that they are the only ones with the 'right' to milk products') No wonder why few in the regulatory community are actually proposing reasonable solutions.....

The actions of the regulators create the distrust...it's not the other way around.

For those farmers who 'know' their customers, these type of testing questions needn't be even considered.....and this is why milk via personal contract is, and will be, the only right way that raw milk will flourish in the market.
February 1, 2009 | Registered Commentermilk farmer
Why are they not "forcing" the big dairies to clean up and produce clean milk? Why are they not "forcing" the big dairies to prohibit the cows from living in thier own excretement? Why don't they "force "the big dairies to inform the public the ingredients in the dairy feed? Or inform what all the innoculations/drugs injected/fed to the bovines are? Why aren't they "forcing" the big dairies to inform the public exactly how milk is processed? Why aren't they "forced" to post publicly what their pathogen results are in the bulk tanks and after bottled? Or inform what dairy that milk they are purchasing comes from?

Given these questions, why would I have any faith in any entity that allows all this? None of the above is healthy for the cow, nor humans.
Why is it so difficult for the "regulators" to leave me to consume what I choose?

http://jds.fass.org/cgi/reprint/64/6/1483.pdf

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/physician-resources/medical-science/food-borne-illnesses.shtml

http://www.foodsafety.gov/~dms/hp2010.html

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama1/pub/upload/mm/36/2004_food_o157.pdf

It is a shame that the docs that treated Chris martin didn't heed the instructions from the AMA.
February 1, 2009 | Registered CommenterSylvia Gibson
For any who may look to the regulators as their saviors and force upon those of us who desire not to be a part the system please answer a few questions.
What is the track record of the regulatory system under the auspices of the USDA over the last 70 years. Is our food more nutritious, and are we less dependent on imports? How many farms have we lost over that time, is it 3 million? It was reported that 50 years ago cancer rates were 1 in 33 today its 1 in 3, Is there no connection to what we eat? The nation is grossly fatter than ever, no connection to the recommended fat free diet or so called food pyramid.? With a record like this its no wonder they insanely attack raw dairy farmers with guns drawn is it not? Something is very very fundamently wrong and its not the raw dairy farmers and consumers
We are not trying to force or coerce raw dairy on anyone else so just leave us alone isnt that the American way freedom to choose or has that been cast into the dust bin of history?
The food regulators and the monetary regulators have utter failed the only question is which will collaspe first the monetary system or our food system. Just MHO.
What is the answer to the questions above or do the even merit an answer these days?
February 1, 2009 | Registered CommenterDon Wittlinger
It is interesting that people keep bringing up Chris Martin and his illness. We are not talking about Chris Martin. The topic at hand is testing for pathogens in our food supply. David’s post specifically addressed testing for pathogens in raw milk.

In 2008 there were 3 raw milk E.coli 0157:H7 outbreaks. As a result, children developed HUS. All children who develop HUS are not given antibiotics and all children given antibiotics who have E.coli 0157:H7 do not develop HUS. The other high profile child in the OPDC outbreak did not receive antibiotics and she developed HUS. Many people in the 2006 E.coli spinach outbreak developed HUS—they were not all given antibiotics.

The research indicates if an antibiotic is given, there is a higher chance of developing HUS, but it is not an absolute. The link Sylvia provided states that the use of antimicrobial therapy is controversial and that data suggests that antimicrobial agents may be harmful.

So back to the topic at hand. What actions would/should a raw milk farmer take if he/she received a positive pathogen test from a private lab? Or any response to what lykke wrote.

cp
February 1, 2009 | Registered CommenterConcerned Person
" The raw milk movement tends to deny the possibility of raw milk outbreaks. Not unlike White Supremacists who deny the Holocaust or a sect of conservative Christians who deny the existence of dinosaurs because they are not mentioned in the Bible."
- Concerned Person

What a disgusting and telling comparison, lumping us in with White Supremacists. I am not offended by the conservative Christians, though they do seem to bother you.

I find denying the existence of dinosaurs a far less offensive act than the actions of bureaucrats denying me the right to make my own food choices.
February 1, 2009 | Registered CommenterRobert Monahan
CP

No, it is not about Chris Martin, he just happens to have been brought up in the past numerous times on this blog by his mother, it is about the treatment he recieved by the physicians. Someone asked if the medical community was being instructed about food born pathogens and I searched. I posted a link, the was basically the same as posted within the last 2 yrs. No one said it was absolute. As to the treatment of Chris Martin, we may never know if the MDs giving him antibiotics contributed to him developing HUS or not. If you are not sure, then error on the side of caution...they apparently did not.

The topic at hand encompasses many factors, including my freedom to choose what I want to consume. I see that none of my questions are answered.
February 1, 2009 | Registered CommenterSylvia Gibson
I agree with milk farmer that testing programs should be scalable - most relevant for larger producers, especially if they sell in stores. And, microbiological testing programs have a place in most food safety programs, but cannot replace a "culture of food safety" within the company (and good ethics) whether it be a small, medium, or large operation.

Lynn, sorry about the link. Try this...interestingly, according to the story, the lab testing under investigation relates to metal fragments and a shipment to Canada, not Salmonella.

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/printedition/2009/02/01/prosecute0201.html?cxntlid=inform_artr

This is another interesting story published today in the AJC.

Troubled peanut firm’s chief also an industry quality adviser

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/stories/2009/01/31/parnell_0201.html

Finally, I'm still having trouble understanding what is meant by "improving out immunity" to prevent foodborne illnesses. Healthy lifestyles are important including good nutrition, and this country is in an abysmal situation with the obesity epidemic, heart disease, diabetes, etc. But, if you look at the individuals becoming severely ill from foodborne pathogens, they tend to be young or old - for example, setting aside the antibiotic controversy since not all the children were given antibiotics as cp points out, what could the parents of the recent HUS cases among children in CT, MO, and CA (hope I have those states right - going off of memory) have done differently to improve their children's "immunity" so they did not become ill after exposure to a pathogen (whether that be in raw milk/colostrum or peanuts or any other contaminated food vehicle)?
February 1, 2009 | Registered CommenterLykke
On the issue of the PA tests, I asked at the time for confirmation that the different labs used similar tests and no one responded. It's an important question, David, should this happen again. I don't know what the differences in rates of false negatives for screening tests and more sensitive assays, but I assume there are differences. That would be a key point of inquiry should this happen again.

I am way behind on issues on this blog, but saw the poking at the Ventura salary and for the record, I wouldn't be too inclined to live in Ventura for 70K and I'm pretty low maintenance. It doesn't go all that far there.

Amanda
February 1, 2009 | Registered CommenterAmanda Rose
On children and exposure, we just spent the better part of a week being sick after my son had a peanut butter product. Who knows if that was it, but the symptoms and onset fit. We all could be healthier I suppose and our health is why we just stayed home and got through it. But I just wanted to say that it sucked.

That's all. Carry on.
February 1, 2009 | Registered CommenterAmanda Rose
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