Poor Babies at the FDA See “Threats of Violence” in Mark McAfee’s Comments on This Blog, and Warn About OPDC Raw Milk at Dec. 21 WI Demonstration…Wait, There’s More, on Raw Milk as “Medicine”
Tuesday, December 15, 2009 at 12:51AM 
I thought I was having some fun with my previous post about John Sheehan and the U.S. Food and Drug Administration being nervous about the explosion of interest in raw milk. Little did I realize that I was terribly understating the situation. The people at the FDA are positively paranoid.
There’s no need to make up fictitious conversations to determine that. It’s all in the black and white officialese of a federal court document. That’s something that presumably many government-paid pencil pushers review and analyze before submission.
Technically, the document is a U.S. Justice Department request for a permanent injunction in a civil suit seeking to bar Mark McAfee, owner of Organic Pastures Dairy Co., from selling raw milk outside California. The government’s case against OPDC is well known and has been reported extensively on this blog, from the investigation tactics to the criminal case that wound up earlier this year. (Thanks to Bill Marler, the food poisoning lawyer, for the tip-off on the document.)
This current request covers much of the same ground—about how OPDC sold raw milk as pet food and how FDA sleuths worked day and night to break the case by ordering milk over the telephone. Sherlock Holmes would have been proud.
Two new justifications, direct from the FDA, are invoked in this U.S. government request, to back up the request for a permanent injunction. I’ll leave it to you to decide which is the more outrageous.
1. “Mark McAfee has repeatedly made threats of violence against government officials on The Complete Patient (www.thecompletepatient.com), a website dedicated to the promotion of raw milk.” This comes from Barbara Cassens, district director of the FDA in San Francisco. (I certainly do appreciate the FDA promoting my blog, but quick correction: it is not “dedicated to the promotion of raw milk.”)
Okay, now about the threats of violence. Cassens cites three instances, all pulled from comments Mark McAfee made on this blog. The closest to a threat (and even that’s a stretch) is his suggestion that “another Wounded Knee, Ruby Ridge or Waco could easily happen in America…I shoot and own guns…but you will never see them displayed or used against cops or any person. Until the tipping point. At that point my life is then the value which must be laid down in the balance and it is worth giving in trade.” I’m sorry, but this statement is the equivalent of the New Hampshire state motto, carried on each license plate: “Live free or die.” That motto is more of a threat than Mark McAfee’s personal political analysis—after all, how are we supposed to “die” in the NH scheme? When McAfee's so-called "tipping point" comes, I would venture.
The other two comments? Political theatre, at best. One is a hypothetical response to reports that public health officials might forcibly vaccinate citizens. It’s not a stretch to suggest such tactics would constitute government violence against citizens, and all Mark McAfee is suggesting in response is “a rolling video camera, a call to 911, a pleasant but firm request to immediately leave…” If all that failed (in other words, if police wouldn’t help or invaders didn’t leave)? “…followed by a Sig Sauer .45 point directly at their heads.” Courts have repeatedly upheld the right of citizens to use firearms against home invaders.
The second is that “he encouraged raw milk producers to videotape government inspections.” Yes, Mark McAfee did suggest that, and farmers and consumers have begun taking up his suggestion. Why would FDA types be so upset about being videotaped, to suggest it constitutes a “threat of violence”? Poor little babies must be camera shy.
Finally, Cassens includes a kind of P.S. to her statement—a challenge to anyone thinking of attending the courthouse demonstration December 21 in Viroqua, WI, in support of raw milk buyers club owner Max Kane. It quotes Mark McAfee’s pledge (again from this blog) to “bring ten half gallons of CA raw milk with me and drink it with the demonstrators on the steps of the Wisconsin court house steps. They will not take my raw milk from me…” That comment, Cassens says, constitutes “his plan to transport raw milk in interstate commerce and to drink the raw milk with other raw milk advocates.”
Now, wouldn’t that make a great legal case: does a farmer from one state have the right to consume his own farm’s raw milk in another state? Worthy of Supreme Court consideration, I’d say.
And what about the “other raw milk advocates”? Would they be violating the prohibition on interstate sale of raw milk by consuming California milk in Wisconsin? As a political science buff, I’d definitely be willing to get myself arrested to test the constitutionality of that one. And I think lots of others would, too. Do the sops at the FDA really want to push it? I would think not, but then, I have been too often guilty of overestimating both the FDA’s political acuity and its respect for individual rights.
By the way, guys (at the FDA), here’s a little civics refresher. The U.S. Constitution’s first amendment provides that, “Congress shall make no law…abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” No, you can’t yell “Fire!” in a crowded movie theatre and you can’t publicly accuse a neighbor or friend of criminal activities when you know they’re innocent, but beyond that, we have very wide latitude in what we’re allowed to say. My bet is that most federal judges would see Mark McAfee’s political commentary for what it is: political commentary.
2. Now, I’ve pretty much worn myself out with the political side of the FDA song-and-dance, but as I suggested earlier in this post, there’s a second justification in this legal document for the government’s case. I don’t have the energy to give it the attention it deserves, but then, maybe it doesn’t deserve much attention. It’s a statement near the end by Dr. Stefano Luccioli, the Senior Medical Advisor with the FDA’s Center for Food Sarety and Applied Nutrition (CFSAN), as the FDA’s response to Mark McAfee’s statements that raw milk can help alleviate the symptoms of asthma and allergies.
Dr. Luccioli's statement assesses raw milk as a “drug,” and as such, essentially sets up raw milk as a straw man. To qualify as a “drug” in the FDA’s definition, a substance must pass through all kinds of controlled tests and analysis that no producer could afford. In that context, there’s no way raw milk could be viewed in the least bit positively. Still, the good doctor's statement deserves a close reading, to understand the FDA’s refusal to make even the slightest acknowledgment that individual consumers with allergies and asthma may be experiencing a reduction in symptoms. Here are just three statements from Dr. Luccioli that indicate the ideological nature of the FDA’s stand:
-- “I have never heard of a physician recommending raw milk for the treatment of these conditions.” Well, here’s one: Dr. Thomas Cowan, and some of his suggestions. (Scroll down to the March 2009 newsletter.) And I’ve met several physicians who recommend raw milk, and I’m just one non-medical individual. I wonder how hard Dr. Luccioli searched.
--On European studies indicating that raw milk benefits children with asthma and allergies: “…the fact that none of the studies that purport to show a protective effect from raw milk were performed on United States raw milk samples or on United States farms is another reason that they cannot be relied upon to demonstrate any direct casual relationship between raw milk consumption and beneficial outcomes.” All I can say is, denial is a potent emotion.
--Testimonials don’t count—“…in addition to lacking appropriate controls to limit potential bias and conclusions that are not supported by the science, are often deficient in the number of subjects necessary to make statistical interpretations about efficacy and, therefore, do not meet scientific criteria for a well designed clinical study.”
One question: You think the FDA is open to learning more about the possible benefits of raw milk?
And a suggestion: Try to come to the demonstration for Max Kane in Viroqua, WI, Dec. 21, and let the FDA know what consumers think about its efforts to deprive us of the right to access raw milk.
***
Blogger Alex Lewin has lots of good information about the hearing tomorrow evening in Framingham, MA, to decide whether farmer Doug Stephan will receive a raw milk permit. Doug Stephan is looking for all the support he can get, so if you live in the area, plan to attend.
Reader Comments (25)
There was no mention of the possibility of building up one's immunity to better fight the flu. On the contrary, it was suggested that it was the reaction of their own competent immune system that caused the deaths of so many young people. There was no discussion as to what may have differentiated the people that survived from those that didn't. I wonder if anyone has researched that. I have seen it suggested elsewhere that Vitamin D deficiency and higher sugar consumption may have been factors in those that didn't survive. I would think a good microbial flora may also have been a factor.
Mark commented in the prior post and David blogged here about Dr. Luccioli (and by inference the FDA) assessing raw milk as a drug. I wonder how well ingesting the drug of raw milk helps us avoid the flu. I don't get colds or coughs or the flu, and neither does my supposedly immune-compromised husband (he was diagnosed with CLL 3 years ago). Instead of fear-mongering and promoting dependence on a vaccine, wouldn't it be wonderful if the FDA and CDC promoted actions that would actually help us maintain our health - like the importance of having a healthy microbial balance, the kind that raw milk products foster.
I don't know how many other PBS stations showed all 3 of these flu programs tonight, but I can just picture TPTB deciding people weren't taking the pandemic seriously enough and deciding to blast us with a reminder of our vulnerability. David, I'm sorry because I think I kind of hijacked the topic of this blog with this first comment.
If you keep this latest theme going in this blog the FDA is going to come for you!
You sure are making these 'guys' look like fools...idiots with a communist, we must control, mentality.
Keep shining the light on these roaches............( I hear Mark has a penchant for pointy toed boots)
So, I am confused by the "interstate commerce" part. There is no law thankfully being broken by possession or consumption anywhere. Correct?
Kristin: it would be an interesting exercise to craft a law against possession of raw milk, given that every milk producer would be in violation of it.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10618237/
If those same words were used against a school full of kids, would you say it's just free speech, poor babies, and ignore the possible warning signs of violence?
Lykke, I guess you haven't been in a typical public school or a typical public school classroom lately, eh? My Godmother teacher and her daughter-teacher tell me countless stories that these children will tell them to "f*** off" without hesitation! Also, I quess we best stop teaching about the American Revolution so these "little innocents" won't get the "wrong ideas" about their own country's Constitution and Bill of Rights. This way the regulators can "keep the peace" without "threats being made toward them."
School full of kids: geeze in Oakland that was a "school full of kids" High school, a girl was drugged and raped multiple times while bystanders just watched.......imagine not saying something when you know it is wrong...what is being taught in schools? Surely not standing up for what is right, moral....
That sausage guy, "snapped" means there was a trigger, could be the constant harassing he received? Hmmm bullying of the man?
Are you inferring that these poor farmers may "snap" from the constant harassment of the feds? People will only be pushed so far..psych 101.
"One question: You think the FDA is open to learning more about the possible benefits of raw milk?"
They have shown absolutely no desire to learn anything, they wear blinders close the face.
Oh...you didn't? I didn't think so.
Bob Hayles
http://www.juicymaters.com
Remember...EVERY time you are in contact with an elected official, remind them, "We don't work for you. You work for US."
Hmmm...I don't THINK so. Frankly I don't remember ever fearing government. They should fear us. I believe it was Alexander Hamilton who said so (look that up for me will ya, Lykke?)
I believe the interstate ban says "for sale or distribution" - so if Mark distributes his milk, they would probably try to build a case against him. I can't believe my taxes pay for attacking a glass of milk. 400 pages! The FDA is cracking before our eyes.
Lykke...how's that search for constitutional authority coming along?
Bob Hayles
EVERY time you are in contact with an elected official, remind them, "We don't work for you. You work for US."
http://www.ftcldf.org/docs/21_CFR_1240.61_pasteurization.pdf
(Thanks FTCLDF!)
21 C.F.R. § 1240.61 Mandatory pasteurization for all milk
and milk products in final package form intended for direct human
consumption.
(a) No person shall cause to be delivered into interstate
commerce or shall sell, otherwise distribute, or hold for sale or
other distribution after shipment in interstate commerce any milk
or milk product in final package form for direct human consumption
unless the product has been pasteurized or is made from dairy
ingredients (milk or milk products) that have all been
pasteurized, except where alternative procedures to pasteurization
are provided for by regulation, such as in part 133 of this
chapter for curing of certain cheese varieties.....
If the feds believe that Mark McAfee is "dangerous" and that he may be violating some federal law, they very well may send in provocateurs to disrupt and incite Max's event.
What is a provocateur? Someone who is employed by the government to incite violence or crimes in otherwise peaceful events (i.e. causing riots or vandalism at a protest).
David, because you are speaking at this event I am asking you in all sincerity to alert others to this possibility. If anyone advocates violence or tries to buy milk from anyone at this event, please be suspicious! The government's goal is to make us look like ill-tempered lawbreakers, and I don't want to see anyone at this event get arrested.
"(a) No person shall cause to be delivered into interstate
commerce or shall sell,...."
What is the definition of "person" here?If it is the "legal person",it is referring to the specific "legal person" who has applied for a license to sell raw milk.I believe that the dept of Ag has conceded that the Pasteurized Milk Ordinance only applies to "persons" who hold permits from them to sell raw milk."Persons" are not living breathing humans they are legal fictions.If you voluntarily agree that you are a "person",can you blame the authorities for holding you to the regulations that only apply to persons?Don't accuse yourself,don't volunteer that you are a"person",don't give them any evidence that you are a "person".It is their job to gather evidence don't make it easy by giving them any.
More testimony for the Gumpert FDA Court of Public Opinion.
I am not taking OPDC raw milk to Wisconsin and give the FDA any excuses to jail me or fine OPDC.
I will however take an "empty OPDC raw milk container and fill it WI raw milk" and tell a very juicy and FDA exposing story about all this. It seems that the more the FDA opens their mouths... the more that shear ignorance and drug protection agendas escape from their souls.
I invite the FDA doctor to call Dr. Fields in Fresno and discuss raw milk. He is the assistant professor medicine at UCSF and was the chief of medicine at Valley Childrens Hospital in Madera CA. Perhaps the FDA doctor can attend some CEU's with Dr. Fields and " do no harm and let food be medicine when possible". Dr. Fields has a very full tool chest...and he is a true healer. He will explain how raw milk stabilizes MAST cells and does wonders for Asthma and allergies as well as helping IBS and other GUT issues and builds immunity.
I will never forget the time that the Kings County Health Department called OPDC in a frantic search for raw milk because it had been prescribed for a child that was getting worse and worse if it did not get raw milk immediately. I rushed two half gallons to the patient only to see a written presciption for OPDC raw milk. The health department credit card was offered to pay for the products. I would not accept payment and was just honored to be involved in saving a childs life.
As far as guns are concerned, it is the FDA that brings armed guards to OPDC when they come to inspect. I never miss an opportunity to try and be extra friendly to the FDA inspectors. Who looks like the ass when I do not match the description that their bosses give them of me.
I have far more important things to do with my time that play with guns and give the FDA any excuse to blow my head off. I spend my time building markets and making kids better. When and if the FDA ever tries to ban or regulate raw milk inside CA they will not be met my an armed Mark McAfee. No. That would make their day.
They will be met with 4 video cameras, several camera crews from local and national news stations and 100,000 really pissed off moms dads and kids. A far worse scenario that can not he handled by the squeeze of a trigger by a frustrated drug protection guard with two brain cells. I have learned from history and will not repeat it.
Dear FDA I am my fathers son... But i learned from his mistakes and the governments criminal acts as well. I do not trust the FDA so I will not allow myself to ever to close a questionable scenario with them. They are not trustworthy. I have received SWAT training when I was a paramedic and I know what numbskulls ( not all of them....but i have seen some real retards ) like to play with guns and are attracted to this line of work.
Up the ante with the government with weapons and you will surely lose.... perhaps fatally and criminally.
Up the Ante using healthy moms and kids and the FDA does not even show up.....they surrender in pity.
I know I was at the SB 201 hearings. This is the truth and the way.
Cowards use guns....The brave and those dedicated to real change us the power of the people, the internet and video cameras and expose those with guns as the real criminals.
FDA you will never see Mark McAfee using or threatening violence. That is precisely what you would love and gives you a pretense for a quick solution..I will never give you what you want.
You may have the money and guns....but I have the raw milk and the moms with healthy kids and all of their email addresses.
You lose. Thats why you are writing 400 page theses when we have already agreed to a summary judgment. This is penalty issue. Please remember that when your precious pastueruized milk killed three in MA two years ago.....you did nothing...nada. No penalty or even a slap on the hand. So selling raw milk to the director ( a trauma surgeon MD ) of the EMS system in Galveston Texas with no injuries or illness....you get nothing. His two girls were from Romania and thrived on raw milk from OPDC when they could get it shipped. Now he gets his raw milk from a local dairymen but must drive 2 hours to get it. This doctor hates your FDA guts!!
I will drink Wisconsin Raw Milk in Wisconsin. I will not give you the pleasure of stopping the power and the progress of the truth of healing with the Raw Milk movement in CA or anywhere else in the USA.
Dear FDA I appoligize for asking John Sheehan to go pasteurize himself. I would much rather invite you to sit at the table as they have done in Michigan and make some real progress.
If you guys keep up these antics.... this will spread the word of raw milk more than anything. The more negative you get the more our products sell like hot cakes. The truth is the truth. Before condemning and fighting your enemy....you should spend a few days in his shoes to know his ways. You have done none of your homework and no nothing of the sickness that your drugs have caused and how much relief raw milk has brought.
Take off that tie and put on some boots and perhaps we can sit at a table and listen to own another ( just like Michigan ).
I am ready... are you?
Mark McAfee
Founder OPDC
if we leave it to gov't "think" we will probably lose everything in the wreck. if we do it ourselves we can maybe save most of the local communities that made/make this country great.
there is no political route to salvage our gov't, they have become a menice to society and they view us all as a threat to their control.
gandhi said: "there is only one sovereign remedy, namely, non-violent non-cooperation. whether we advertise the fact or not, the moment we cease to support the government it dies a natural death."
as long as we are willing to "DO AS WE ARE TOLD" we are slaves to them.
starve the beast. actively avoid corporate purchases, actively avoid paying sales tax. clothing and food have no sales tax in any state (as far as i know) actively avoid any activity that has fees attached. drive less, drive knowing that police are actively drumming up revenue via speed traps and running plates looking for paperwork errors. don't trust the state to keep your paperwork up to date. they need the revenue and your recourse is so complicated and time consuming that it's not worth it.
if we let the path we're on continue gov't will collapse in one big bang, maybe a few years maybe a few decades away. but if we starve them of revenue to operate they will be whittled down slowly and give local communities time to reestablish local systems.
do you have a space at the local u-store-it?
consumerism has grown to be 70% of gdp manufacturing is under 20%. that is completely upside down, unless it can be reversed we can never survive as a society or economy. it is unsustainable....
likely we can't turn it around, but we need to try. it needs to be 300 million americans who do it as individuals we cannot task our gov't to do it for us. it is against their own self interest.
gov't has gotten so bad that they see citizens as a threat, not a solution.
where do you stand?
starve the beast while we have the chance, this "recession" has given us a golden opportunity states are mostly running up debt to maintain the old. they need consumers to shop till they drop. they need to prop-up the past 3 decades of debt financing of consumer purchases. they don't give a damn about the individual who gets swamped by debt and loses everything. but they need us all to be in debt and more debt and more debt.
what's wrong with this picture?
we're not allowed to look after our own health, we're going to be forced into a illness management system "i.e. gov't health care"
it all feeds the beast, it all increases their control. it all errodes our personal freedoms and liberty.
the gov't needs you to be afraid. starve the beast any way you can.
I agree 100%.
Starve and Bankrupt the Beast
but..... feed the people and teach them to dollar vote for local and whole foods.
Mark
I've been thinking off and on today about a paragraph David wrote:
"By the way, guys (at the FDA), here’s a little civics refresher. The U.S. Constitution’s first amendment provides that, “Congress shall make no law…abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” No, you can’t yell “Fire!” in a crowded movie theatre and you can’t publicly accuse a neighbor or friend of criminal activities when you know they’re innocent, but beyond that, we have very wide latitude in what we’re allowed to say. My bet is that most federal judges would see Mark McAfee’s political commentary for what it is: political commentary."
My brother in law is a journalist who was just 'bought out' of his job as editor of a major newspaper. He has a lot to say about what went wrong with the news media, and why it failed, and what that means to freedom, and how the internet is the last bastion of unregulated (and yes, unfiltered) messaging.
Freedom of speech is alive and well here, for which I'm extremely grateful (and liberated!). When Milk Farmer cautioned David about the FDA coming after him too, it resonated. Because if they can legally enforce what we eat, what to print on our websites, which websites we can link to, what healing methods we can use, and what customers say about milk's benefits, we're pretty damn close to dictating what David can say.
Yeah, I know, 1st Amendment, raw oysters, Michigan, The Complete Patient, and McAfee! But still...Will the (FDA-drugged, CAFO-fed) People rise up in sufficient numbers in time?
-Blair