Notes from Viroqua, WI: Have DATCP and the FDA Bitten Off More Than They Can Chew in This Year's Offensive?
Tuesday, December 22, 2009 at 10:20PM 
Max Kane addresses his supporter outside the Viroqua courthouse before his court appearance. I expected last evening when about 40 supporters of Max Kane gathered at one of Viroqua’s largest homes—now a bed-and-breakfast—that lots of people would be hanging their heads.
Kane had, after all, had all his arguments about the illegality of Wisconsin’s efforts to question him about his raw milk buyers club rejected by a state judge, one who had clearly entered the courtroom prepared to listen to the arguments in the case, and possibly be sympathetic. The judge made it obvious, though, that he wasn’t necessarily rejecting the arguments, but more likely rejecting Max Kane’s presentation of the arguments. My sense of the situation was that the young raw milk distributor could have been the reincarnation of Oliver Wendell Holmes, and the judge still would have rejected him simply because he wasn’t a lawyer. (Yes, Don Wittlinger, that's the way the legal system operates--this country was founded by lawyers, and lawyers run the legal system, and only want to hear from other "union" lawyers."
Yet at the dinner gathering, the mood was upbeat. And it wasn’t just because Max Kane had arranged for an array of his favorite foods—the raw items he credits with having eradicated his Crohn’s disease a few years back: raw tuna, salmon, ground lamb, and steak, along with gallons of milk, cheeses, and a huge block of butter for the fresh whole-grain bread . (For those who were raw-food-shy, there was a delicious cooked beef stew.) All topped off with four different cream and cheese pies.
Aside from the food, part of the upbeat mood was clearly due to the fact that a number of individuals from around the country who are outspoken about raw milk and food rights had taken the time to travel to Viroqua, a tiny town of about 6,000 that isn’t easy to get to (a five-hour car ride from Chicago’s O’Hare Airport in the snow that is a regular presence this time of year). The outsiders included Michael Schmidt, the Canadian dairy farmer who has been raided four times over the years by authorities there for distributing raw milk; Mark McAfee of Organic Pastures Dairy Co.; Michael Badnarik, the Libertarian Party presidential candidate in 2004 (more about him later); and me.
Another part of the upbeat mood was due to the sense, as Michael Schmidt put it to me last evening, “What we saw here was the galvanizing of a movement.”
Scott Trautman, the Wisconsin dairyman who lost his Grade A dairy license for selling raw milk, echoed that assessment, saying that fewer farmers feel intimidated by the state agriculture agency’s crackdown on raw milk that’s been going on during much of 2009. “I’m determined to stand up to DATCP (the Wisconsin Department of Agriculture, Trade, and Consumer Protection) until a number of people there are fired.” Moreover, increasing numbers of Wisconsin dairy farmers are coming to hold that view, and are plotting moves to challenge the state authorities, he said.
Max Kane after the court session spoke to supporters and said his upcoming strategy is "appeal, appeal, appeal." He must have anticipated Hugh Betcha's suggestion: "Delay, delay, delay."
The spirited demonstration prior to Max Kane’s court appearance, along with the afternoon of educational talks by the out-of-towners, and the upbeat dinner gathering, all imparted a feeling of growing unity, and growing enthusiasm for the cause that is emerging.
If a movement really has taken shape, DATCP officials, and their cronies at the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, may come to regret the decision to make Wisconsin this year's ground zero in the government’s campaign against raw milk. Their decision to make public examples of people like Max Kane, Scott Trautman, and Wayne Craig has worked, but not in the way the authorities expected. These individuals are now seen as heroes by supporters of food rights, individuals to be supported and emulated.
There are definitely two fronts in the battle for raw milk. There's the legal front, with cases like that of Barb and Steve Smith, which Steve captures so well in his comment following my previous post. Dave Milano and others articulate clearly the pros and cons of the legal and regulatory side.
Then there's the political and public opinion fronts that are emerging in the form of legislative and protest campaigns, of the sort that just occurred in Viroqua.
DATCP may have won the court battle on Monday, but they are in growing danger of losing the political and public opinion war, and that may be where the most important action is.
***
One of the downers of yesterday’s events in Viroqua was the sudden illness of Michael Badnarik, the Libertarian Party’s presidential candidate in 2004. He collapsed at lunch, after the court proceedings, apparently from a heart attack. He was hospitalized, but by evening hadn’t regained consciousness.
Decked out in a big Texas hat, he gave probably the most fiery speech at the rally preceding the Max Kane court proceedings, declaring, “I own my body and I decide what goes into it.” He repeated his now-famous line, referred to in comments following my recent posting about the FDA’s complaints about Mark McAfee’s threats of violence, concerning forced vaccination: “You bring your needle and I’ll bring my 45, and we’ll see who makes the bigger hole.” He stirred the crowd more than any other speaker.
Afterwards I complimented him: “You really know how to work a crowd.”
“I’ve had some practice,” he replied. Let's hope that speech outside the Viroqua courthouse Monday wasn't his last.
***
I'm glad to see the sincerity of the comments following my previous two posts improving. I'll have to digest all the ideas, but I will say that Paris peace talks sound like something I could handle.
Reader Comments (46)
re peace talks, maybe during july 2010, while the tour de france is running!
There is much work to be done with raw milk legalization and regulation. We are not enemies….people have a right to choose as long as the information they receive about raw milk is honest. Have you all watched the videos of Bill’s raw milk clients? Steve addresses compassion and understanding. The raw milk victims were a part of your raw milk family. You all owe it to them to make sure raw milk is sold to consumers as safe as humanly possible. Regulation is the only answer.
A compromise can be found for the raw milk movement. I agree with Bill, the state of Washington has a great model to follow. Raw milk can be sold from the farm with regulations and everyone wins. Would this be such a horrible solution?
I hope Steve and Bill can meet (Paris does sound nice) and build bridges for this movement.
cp
We won 100% of the political high ground by making positive front page news for two days straight and that is always the great measure of an effort!! We also galvanized the effort and have the email addresses and names of the several hundred raw milk soldiers that will move the pending Wisconsin raw milk legislation forward to a big win. Scott is quite the powerful cheerleader...I am very impressed. Max has a real movement started and should be very proud.
http://www.lacrossetribune.com/news/local/article_b73da930-eebc-11de-9c25-001cc4c002e0.html
Send your prayers to Michael Badnarick. He suffered an acute cardiac arrest and was rescuscitated by the heroic efforts of bystanders ( Mike Taylor...a raw milk movement organizer) and four very effective and professional Viroqua Paramedics, a police officer and their ER staff. Michael needs all of our best wishes sent him as he struggles for his recovery. His last words before his suddon cardiac arrest were in a passionate speech about essential American rights that included the right to drink raw milk. What a great patriot and American.
I am stranded in Arkansas for a night with delayed and cancelled flights after leaving Chicago one hour late and missing a connection by 10 minutes( 12 of us missed the same conection ). I can not even get back to Fresno. There are no flights. The best I can get is a flight to SF and a ride home from my very understanding and supportive wife. It was worth every bit of this effort to be a part of Wisconsins move to life giving living milk and a living payment for a dairymens liquid gold.
I support good standards for raw milk...just like Washington state and CA...they are nearly identical. I have never suggested a raw milk freeforall. Not sure what you are saying CP....
Legal raw milk in Washington state, pennsylvnia, AZ and CA all must meet pastuerized milk standards with out first being pastuerized.
CP and Lykke....why is it that you absolutely refuse to address the issue of the three deaths from Pastuerized milk in MA at Whittier Farms that occured in 2007? The FDA did nothing about it....is this not important to you?
Raw has been found to be a highly effective immune building food ( Michigan Working Group) yet you do not give raw milk any value for its tremendous healing qualities. Why do you never give credit were credit is due... it is always negative....a true judge gives debts and credits on the great scales of debate....you only give negatives when there are tremendous positives.
All the best and Merry Christmas to all.
Jesus drank raw milk.
Mark McAfee
http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2009/12/victim-profile-the-loss-of-john-powers/
http://www.marlerblog.com/2008/02/articles/legal-cases/listeria-victims-and-their-families-are-the-real-heroes-in-the-whittier-farms-investigation/
Bottom line is that the listeria contamination occurred AFTER pasteurization, as did the vast majority of these:
http://www.marlerblog.com/2008/01/articles/legal-cases/4-people-dead-after-drinking-listerialaden-pasteurized-milk-from-massachusetts/
Hope that helps.
The iron boot of Karl Marx is painfully felt in Canada also! Small raw dairy attacked again. I completely agree David the union lawyers and only union lawyers control our justice system. And lawyers cloak their laws that we [the created legal fictional person] must obey in a legalese language that we have extreme difficulty understanding thus the need to pay them to interpert the laws they write as they see fit. It has been reported that 50% of the worlds prison population reside in the US but we are only 25% of the worlds population. It has also been reported that the US has more lawyers than all the rest of the world combined. Something is wrong with this picture. I am not against lawyers we do have a need for them good ones that is.
I am sorry if I offended you David and you legal folks out there and will respectly stop posting if asked.
The DATCP is overstepping their bounds. Likewise with premises registration for NAIS, which they are enforcing vigorously. Someone else mentioned previously that as the economy goes down, we will emerge victorious. It would be nice if that was how it works, but when governments get broke, they tend to double and triple their efforts to extract fees.
While preparing the latest newsletter for OCFA, I spoke with CJ and Paul of WICFA extensively. I am very impressed with the people of Wisconsin. Band together and you SHALL emerge victorious!
If anyone wants a copy of the newsletter, email me at localvorefresh at aol dot com.
I am very sorry to hear about Michael's heart attack.
“I also do not think that [raw milk] should be sold in retail outlets (Whole Foods, etc) - people should know who their farmer is and see the operation first hand. Selling retail also increases the risks that a casual buyer will purchase a product without fully understanding the pros and the cons.”
Here it is fairly modified (by me):
“I do not think that processed commodities should be sold in retail outlets (Whole Foods, etc) - people should know what their food is and see the operation first hand. Selling retail also increases the risks that a casual buyer, or today just about any buyer, will purchase a product without fully understanding the pros and the cons.”
We in the west are dyed-in-the-wool reductionists. We like to view issues in small, bite-size pieces, and we just won’t have it any other way. So we carve out of their context small bits of every whole, focus down hard on them, of course make conclusions from those very narrow exercises, and from there form policies and apply them lavishly. Only an extravagantly over-confident people could be satisfied with such a process.
While we blunder over the vast intricacies of health by ignoring our faltering immune systems, our degraded soils, the astonishing epidemics of diabetes, dementia, cancer, autism, asthma, and on and on, we maintain a phony sense of righteous purpose by creating rules that attempt to corral an endless list of perceived enemies (microbial and otherwise) and simultaneously corral our brothers into the system. When, in the process, we trample over those with broader vision, is irrelevant.
The plain truth is that the current paradigm is destroying our health and making the very agents of that destruction very rich. The ONLY place to find redress is in liberty. Half-liberties, which Marler and so many others now accept (and even promote) as necessary evils, are as deadly as no liberty. They tend only to reinforce the status quo.
I have not seen this first hand, but I tend to believe it. Excessive regulation does not necessarily lead to safer products, because it does not assure more inspection or enforcement of the regulations. It does lead to more selective and punitive enforcement, however, as we see in the case of small, raw milk dairies.
Regulations should not be "open to interpretation" by the regulators. This just leads to the criminalization of innocent, hard-working people.
No offense ever taken-in fact critical (civil) commentary is something that should be embraced.
I ask that, despite the large number of attorneys in the US that we understand that many are dedicating (sacrificing) time and effort to do good. And that, as the movement matures, we keep focused on our goals. The events in Wisconsin this year, as David points out may indeed be a catalyst. The DATCP--on the one had is supporting a variety of small farm operations-I am familiar with--including their artisan cheese and goat dairy initiative as well as grass based farming--- yet on the other had engaging in activities that are contrary. It is not just raw milk; I was really appalled at the bizarre logic and justifications for DATCPs premises registration (NAIS) in reading the transcripts from the Emanuel Miller (Old Amish Community) prosecution in Clark County for not complying with mandatory premises registration. I don't know who the attorneys are interpreting the law and regulations--but it harkens to a sort of cheap horror movie "The Revenge of the C minus Law Students." There is a lot of ferment on many levels on many issues revolving around individual rights and the imposition of regulations.
As Steve has said: "Regulation without representation is tyranny."
Final comment: my extra copy of Raw Milk Revolution goes to our dairy inspector next week, and I'm passing on my copy of Tim. W.'s "Chore Time " DVD (from the FTCLDF) to folks interested in small dairy/herd share operations. Great resources!
Best wishes to all and Live Happy!
I'm sorry. I'm not your slave and you don't rule my body.
http://blog.timesunion.com/business/dairy-suspends-raw-milk-sales-after-contamination/16660/
Now...wnen was the last death from nanny state approved food you are so enamoured of? Last month? Last week? Today?
You wander around picking the low hanging fruit to more easily fill your bank account...low hanging fruit not due to it's dangers, instead because of an assumption of danger based on FDA and CDC lies.
Since Lyyke won't directly answer the question, why don't you take a shot at it? Where in the constitution is the government given the authority to make our nutrition decisions for us?
David, I really try to bring a bit of rationality to the discussion here, but I fear some of your readers would rather yell at each other. Bob, please stop making assumptions about why I do what I do. It is simply not productive.
Re: where in the Constitution (similar language in State Constitutions)- See Article I Section 1.
"All legislative powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives."
Congress and/or State Legislatures have over time enacted laws (legislative powers) and/or given power to the Executive branch to enact rules (regulations) for a wide variety of activities - including public health. You may not agree with some of them, as is your right. You can work productively to change who the legislators are, or work through other legal processes to accomplish your goals.
Your rants are both boring and not at all useful.
Merry Christmas.
http://www.marlerblog.com/2009/04/articles/legal-cases/raw-milk-outbreaks-2009-update/
Again, you can always read this on the comparison I did between raw and pasteurized milk:
http://www.foodpoisonjournal.com/uploads/file/Comparing%20Food%20Safety%20Record_Revised(1)(1).pdf
And, here was some research on outbreaks when the milk was not properly pasteurized or cross-contaminated after pasteurization:
http://www.marlerblog.com/2008/01/articles/legal-cases/4-people-dead-after-drinking-listerialaden-pasteurized-milk-from-massachusetts/
Grab a big glass of eggnog and read these.
In regard to lawyers, besides the judge being a lawyer, Wisconsin governor Jim Doyle as well as DATCP Secretary Randy Romanski are both lawyers. I believe respect will need to be shown to lawyers if raw milk policy is to advance. Judges hate to have cases they decide reversed on appeal or repeatedly sent back for technical issues. Insisting Max have a lawyer allows the judge to focus on the issues in the case rather than possible legal errors or procedural violations that easily can foul up a case.
http://www.marlerblog.com/2009/12/articles/case-news/science-and-eggnog-raw-eggs-and-alcohol-can-a-favorite-holiday-drink-be-made-safe/
Amanda - so, what if they used raw milk too?
Good to hear from you...at last you rejoin this discussion and we have someone that likes to deal with numbers and facts and addresses issues and uses his real name. I really enjoy, respect and like that about you.
Dr. Ron Hull was part of a huge study that looked at all the creameries in Australia. The study found that 66% had listeria in their invironmental tests. It is an established biological fact that listeria does not do well in environments that have organic acid producing bacteria dominating the ecosystem. That is why listeria is found so frequently in pastuerized milk and other cooked and processed foods. The data on listeria found in or causing illness in raw milk is scant and very few. The CDC shows plenty for thermalized raw cheeses, but they have been heated and do not have their good abacteria active anymore. I have reviewed the FDA and CDC data base for raw milik illnesses...yes raw milk can make some people sick...agreed. But...what is not fair or helpful is the fact that this data includes raw milk that was not intended for direct human consumption and was instead intended for pastuerization. The data also includes pastueriizer failures. We must all agree to get the classes of raw milk correctly categorized before we can start to look at the numbers. By definition....any post pastuerization illness or data when collected from milk that was intended to be pastuerized should not never be combined with data collected to reflect issues about raw milk produced as intended to be consumed raw....two different standards and raw milks!!
Bill...please agree with me that "there are two raw milks in America".
"One for people and one for pastuerization". Clearly CA law shows this to be true....
If we can at least start at that point...we can make some seriously great progress.
When raw milk is produced under well considered standards and farmers that know what they are doing and know that the end use will be human consumption...they produce raw milk which is far different than raw milk produced with out any concern for human health or pathogens because it will be pastuerized and commingled with many other dairies milk.
As a christmas gift to reason and the season....will you agree with that statement.
I will also completely agree that raw milk when produced under perfect conditions for human consumption is not perfect and is far different than pastuerized milk which is far from perfect as well. Pastuerized milk is associated to a 50% incidence of diarrhea and LI when consumed by the general population. Raw milk on the other hand is biodiverse and each human can react differently to it...but this human consumption type of raw milk is not a risky food....far from it. It is not mentioned by the FDA or CDC in the top ten risky foods in America. It is very safe and most importantly will build a very strong immune system for its consumer and protect against other foods that contain pathogens nearly all the time ( deli meats, chicken etc). Not to mention the emerging spread of bad bugs and viruses that love weak immune sytems.
Would you consider a food that causes gas cramping and diarrhea in 50% of those that attempt to consume it to be safe??
Perhaps this a great new class action lawsuit for you?? Cut me in on this if you go for it.
May your Christmas and New Year be blessed with a strong immune system.
All the best,
Markl McAfee
Merry Christmas!
i haven't read all the links; I am so behind. But wanted to tell Miguel that I'm not advocating registering producers as legal persons - I just want an amendment that says they are free to produce raw milk and raw milk products on a contractual basis.
You don't seem willing to compromise with government at all. You are a true libertarian! I tend toward that thought as well, but not nearly as idealistic as you. What happened to "of the people, for the people, by the people"? Do you believe that goal is hopeless?
-Blair
To the Smiths at Meadow sweet, I'm sorry if I was wrong in saying that you argued "raw milk" when you say you didn't - it was the impression I got from reading about your story. It seems that an LLC, though, isn't a possible or even a good way to circumvent a law - it is a corporation created by the state of NY, so they're going to want to regulate it, no? Maybe if you took your payments in Ithaca hours it would be okay with Albany.
Of course our friendly Seattle lawyer's eggnog is made with raw eggs and raw milk and home distilled booze and freshly grated nutmeg, eh~
If I celebrated Christmas in December, I'd wish you all a merry one.