When I sat down in the hearing room for the opening of the raw milk testimony in Connecticut (described in my previous post), there in the row behind me was New York raw dairy producer Chuck Phippen. (He’s the third from the left in the photo at right.) I first got to know Chuck nearly two years ago, when his Breese Hollow Dairy had one of those highly suspicious positive readings for listeria in its raw milk. He received the usual treatment—forced to shut down all sales of raw milk, endure the humiliation of a state-issued press release, and hit with a $300 fine.
It turns out that Chuck has since had two more listeria findings in his milk since the spring 2007 occurrence, the most recent of which occurred last September. One of the reasons he traveled to the Connecticut hearing was that he wanted to see what happened to the part of the pending legislation to prohibit retail sales that would also make a third finding of a pathogen in a raw dairy’s milk a Class A misdemeanor.
“If this were the law in New York, I’d be in jail right now,” he told me. (Do you get this feeling, what with what’s happening to Sharon Palmer facing a felony over goat’s milk in California, and the Connecticut proposal, that maybe the authorities are trying to tighten the screws just a little bit?)
Actually, Chuck has been fighting a low-level guerilla war against Ag & Markets to contest its findings.
He has refused to pay the fines and, most recently, is seeking some kind of administrative hearing to publicly challenge NY Ag & Markets rules on listeria. Among his contentions, as stated in his most recent letter to the agency, Nov. 28, 2008, challenging the fine:
–The level of listeria is important. Any number of scientific studies have concluded, supported by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, that the simple presence of listeria in any food doesn’t necessarily indicate a danger to otherwise healthy people. The amount of listeria needs to exceed some unknown threshold. (From FDA: “For most healthy people, a moderate dose of Listeria bacteria on an ingested food is not likely to cause illness. The scientific community is still uncertain how many Listeria organisms it takes to cause illness…” As Chuck points out, NY Ag & Markets doesn’t do a quantitative test, since it’s one listeria cell and you’re out.
–Listeria is not known to have ever caused an outbreak of illness from raw milk, based on the Centers for Disease Control’s report on illnesses between 1973 and 2005. “If the CDC had been concerned about listeria in raw milk, it would have been listed,” wrote Chuck.
–Listeria has been shown to occur in 2% of all pasteurized milk. A 1988 CDC report noted, “Two percent of pasteurized milk samples from more than 700 U.S. milk-producing plants were culture-positive for listeria species, primarily L. monocytogenes.”
–The variety of listeria is expanding all the time. According to Chuck, there are currently 6,800 known isolates. “Just because listeria is there, so what?”
The Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund is providing Chuck with assistance in moving his appeal to some kind of administrative process, so the issue can be aired in public.
In his letter, he concludes, “Not one person consuming milk from Breese Hollow Dairy has ever even felt sick…Therefore, how can a fine be imposed for adulterated milk? According to Section 200, food is deemed to be adulterated ‘if it bears or contains any poisonous or deleterious substance which may render it injurious to health.’ The state has not shown that there was a ‘poisonous substance injurious to health’ since neither the FDA, the CDC, nor Breese Hollow Dairy itself has found any report of sickness.”
At the hearing Monday, Chuck told me, “This has nothing to do with public safety…It’s really sad that they try to tout public safety.” No, I’d say we’re talking about witch hunts, and last I heard, witch hunts haven’t been linked by local authorities to public safety since the Salem Witch Trials of 1692.
Raw Kefir is an excellent biocontrol for Listeria. When Kefir is filled in your raw milk filler or just sprayed arround your creamery and dairy….the Kefir bacteria ( very strong good bacteria ) dominate and will not allow Pseudomonas or Listeria to start their life cycles. Your Listeria counts could also be a sign of being too clean ( sterile environments love listeria…quaterinary cleaners also bring on listeria). remember Whittier farms and 3 deaths from listeria in pasteurized milk last year ).
You need good organic acid producing lactobaccillus bacteria in your environment at a raw dairy and creamery or you will have more and more listeria popping up its politically incorrect little head.
Soak down every thing including your cows feed with Kefir and see what happens with those Listeria counts. Use it as a post milking teat dip for a few days as well.
This advice has been my own experience and is also the professional advice of Dr. Ron Hull PhD of Australia. He is perhaps one of the best raw milk probiotic bug researchers in the world.
Mark McAfee
http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:BdQ4i-k1Yo8J:www.stsbc.ch/Archivio/2008/Bandi/ROCHE/DellEra.pdf+listeria+cell+wall+deficient&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us&client=firefox-a
"The
results suggested that, under specific conditions, Listeria L-forms may intracellularly survive
and persist after engulfment by macrophages. This observation supports the hypothesis that L.
monocytogenes L-forms may represent stealth pathogens able to escape from host immune
response.
The presented work provided the basis for an extensive characterization process leading to an
improved understanding of the L-form cell and the significance of the transformation for the
potential infection of eukaryotic cells. The occurrence of L-form cells in many bacterial
species, together with the results from this study; clearly disprove the opinion that L-form
cells only represent artefacts during the presence of cell-wall active antibiotics. The
transformation to a cell wall deficient L-form may represent an advantageous strategy for
bacteria in order to escape from environmental conditions that have a detrimental effect on
cell wall-bearing bacteria, like antibiotics, bacteriophages or host immune response.
In conclusion, the presented results from physiological, morphological and molecular
investigations demonstrate that stable L. monocytogenes L-forms represent viable bacteria that
were adapted to their novel cellular conformation. They are not only able to survive but also
have the ability to replicate, grow and persist as stealth pathogens within eukaryotic cells"
1. Letter from a prominent microbiology organization to FDA about the zero tolerance rule:
August 4, 2004 – Establishing a regulatory limit on Listeria monocytogenes
http://www.asm.org/Policy/index.asp?bid=29757
"this request is based on new and emerging evidence that consumer protection is a function of the organisms cell numbers in food, and not its mere presence."
2. The debate is ongoing in Europe too relating to the Codex Alimentarius changes…
Industry rejects zero tolerance listeria proposals
http://www.foodmanufacture.co.uk/news/fullstory.php/aid/5980
"Current EU legislation states products must either have an absence of Lm in 25g or comply with a limit of 100 colony forming units per gram (cfu/g) throughout their shelf-life."
3. And, here’s what the FDA BAM food testing manual says about Listeria and interpretation of the results.
http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~ebam/bam-10.html
"Enumeration to determine if a regulated level of tolerance is being met is not needed with the current "zero-tolerance" policy of no detectable L. monocytogenes in 2 x 25-g analytical portions of food or beverage"
It is not the lab’s fault, they are reporting what is required by law…
If listeria is detected….is it on the grow or on the decline… that is one very tough call?
This is about food chemistry, The correct chemistry and or biology denies Listeria the proper environment to grow and it will be on the decline. So lets make sure we have plenty of Lactobaccilus plantarum and other classes of beneficial inhibitory bacteria to control listeria in our selves, in our food, in our animals, in our animals food and in our creameries.
I would not be happy with one listeria cell in my raw milk. One cell is an indictor of something further being out of whack. Further investigation is on order.
What kind of feed…..what about silage and cleaners. Do not use Quats!
We must stop giving the FDA ammunition for their sterile food fight against us all.
Mark McAfee
GMOs and Jews… Muslims, Christians, Hindus by Linn-Cohen Cole
http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/science_technology/dna_gmo/news.php?
NYT: Maggots in Your Mushrooms
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/13/opinion/13levy.html
And (although I don’t normally encourage visits to this site), CSI: Critter Salad
http://www.marlerblog.com/copyvolecsi.pdf
Pristine food is impossible… it really is best to build up your immune system to reject foreign invaders.
The first paragraph of the article states, Scientists have discovered a new way for bacteria to transfer toxic genes to unrelated bacterial species, a finding that raises the unsettling possibility that bacterial swapping of toxins and other disease-aiding factors may be more common than previously imagined.
It further states, The startling new finding, published in the Jan. 2, 2009, issue of Science by John Chen, Ph.D., and Richard Novick, M.D., suggests that Staph aureus also can take advantage of bacteriophages, viruses that infect bacteria, to pass genetic material on to completely unrelated bacteria. In the lab, the researchers showed that Staph could transfer genes for deadly toxic shock to Listeria monocytogenes, which is already known to cause a potentially deadly form of food poisoning. This is the first time that phages have been observed to serve as shuttle vehicles for bacterial toxins between different species.
Bacteria are extremely complex protein structures that hold an immense wealth of genetic information that is barely understood. Whether or not we will ever achieve complete understanding of these organisms and the symbiotic role they play in order to make this world livable is debatable!
The above and all ongoing research clearly shows that organisms are unpredictable and clearly have the upper hand. It is imperative that we get away from this idea that we can systematically control them without doing ourselves and the ecosystem undue harm.
These words ring true for me, "the harmony of natural law reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly-insignificant reflection." Albert Einstein, The World as I See It, (1974), Bonanza Books, New York, page 40.
Ken Conrad
You shed the perfect light on the situation – a government so deluded they are regulating bacteria and fining farmers for its existence.
Mark, A few dumb questions about the intriguing kefir spray:
Are you using kefir whey? I can’t imagine a spray bottle that would not clog with the curds, I’m envisioning a crusty counter. 🙂
I googled a few years back and found that the probiotics are retained in the whey – is that correct? How long do you leave the kefir on surfaces to inhibit growth of listeria? Do you rinse with tap water? Would it suffice to soak the cow’s grain, or do you have to soak the whole milk parlor? How often do you apply? Thank you.
I completely agree with Mark about the power of kefir. I drink this potion, it makes me fearless. My pets love it too.
-Blair
Family Farm Coalition Airs Dairy Concerns
Conventional dairy farms nationwide are under great financial stress due to the severe collapse in milk prices but the price collapse is NOT due to SUPPLY and DEMAND as would occur in a free market. THEY HAVE NO FREE MARKET.
However raw dairy farmers operate in a free market. HMMM
So what is the motive behind the vicious raids on the small dairy farms nationwide over the last 2 years, food safety, fear of germs reaching the the public or plain old GREED?
IMHO GREED being the ultimate motive trumps food safety in our modern enlightened age.
I think you might find this op-ed piece by Denis Stearns interesting.
"THE MARKET FOR PEANUTS: WHY FOOD IN THE U.S. MAY NEVER BE SAFE"
"In the ongoing political (and legal, and historical, and economic) arguments about the regulation of social and economic activity by governments and government agencies, one of the dominant theoretical controversies has been over the answer to this question: Do regulations interfere with the market-place by creating unnecessary inefficiencies and higher costs, or are regulations a necessary corrective for the inevitable failures of an unregulated (or free) market? …To begin with, there is no such thing as a free market for food because such a market is defined by an almost perfect asymmetry of information…
http://tinyurl.com/c92cct
Mr Stearns totally ignores the aspect of ‘knowing your farmer’…and only talks about the mass produced conventional food delivery system.
Fact is the people should have the right to circumvent this crap food, and contract with a farmer the know and trust, to provide them with their manna. This is the TRUE free market system….not some Republican, pro mega business, lets trust those who are greedy, anti-regulatory stance. (This stance and W’s deregulation of the financial markets has caused this recession)
PCA needs regulation, the guy milking a few cows just outside of town, where you can go and watch him milk his cows, and the product he makes is fed to his kids, doesn’t.
Broad brushes are good for covering up large areas…but hell to use for detail……Stearns must be a commercial ‘painter’, he’s hardly an ‘artist’.
If we dont have free markets we dont have FREEDOM, its seems these days most Americans do not know what FREEDOM is .
Lykke have you ever read the 5th and 9th plank of the Communist Manifesto?
Karl Marx wrote in Das Kapital
Owners of capital will stimulate the working class to buy more and more expensive goods, houses and technology, pushing them to take on more and more expensive debt, until their debt becomes unbearble. The unpaid debt will lead to the bankruptcy of all banks, which wiil have to be nationalized, and the State will have to take the road which will eventually lead to communism. Sound familiar? SCARY??? Its scares me.
Congress just past the largest spending [IOUs only] bill in world history and not one of them had read the bill !!! The bill along with all the other IOU spending has sealed our economic fate the dollar is dead !!!
Controlled markets and fixed prices produce shortages. Read the article I posted the farmers are in deep trouble,controlled dairy pricing will produce shortages as dairy farmers are culling herds nationwide. Fewer cows, less milk going to market.
What and who has destroyed our manufacturing base and what and who has destroyed our once great farm base? It was not lazy workers or bad germs. Will we have jobs and we will still have food to eat in in the next few years???
I agree – the piece is missing any comment on direct sales and the free market. Do you think this is because it is such a small slice of the food industry, and many perhaps see your approach as unable to feed the masses? How do you feed all the people living in the big cities, often with no cars to go out to a farm 3 hours away, no money to pay premium prices, and no land to grow their own food?
Last night at dinner a friend’s husband said we should all start carrying cash and keeping the gas tank at least half full always in case there is a total collapse (banks all shut, no access to money…at least be able to drive home). Anyway, made me think of Don’s comments, in particular, although I lack that same sense of impending doom – seems more likely this is just another cycle. The big dairy industry was probably overdue for a downswing, although I’m a germ expert, not an ag economist. Will stop there before getting over my head in this free market/economy discussion.
Economic cycles are caused by increasing and decreasing the money supply and the interest rates and pure greed by the moneychanging debt sellers in charge. In the last 18 months gas reached $4.49 a gal. yesterday it was $1.89 did either price reflect supply or demand.
All this is just a normal cycle? Not this time the problems are systemic and manipulated. IMHO When the farmers are in trouble we are in deep trouble because never in our history have some many of us depended on so few farmers and for those of us consuming raw dairy the number is many times fewer. We are hanging by a thread !!!
Starting with Sinclair’s The Jungle, 100 years ago, our food trajectory has been toward big-big-bigger. The regulatory imperative which Sinclair created by exposing the filth in meat-packing was desired by that industry after his revelations caused catastrophic sales declines of meat. Anything, even regulation, was better than 50% drops in sales.
Mass marketing of anything deserves regulation, since otherwise the temptations to make megabucks (and the huge risks attendant to failure when you’ve got ga-zillions tied up in huge machinery, buildings, land, other capital and infrastructure) can cause caution and responsible behavior to be thrown out of the window without regulation: result, credit default swaps totaling tens of trillions (vaporizing our 401k’s to pay for the gambling) and Peanut Corporation of America.
As Don suggests, I too believe that the mega-structures in the food industry are playing themselves out. Complex structures, whether they be the space shuttle or humans and giant food systems, are guaranteed to break. It’s statistically certain, and every once in awhile we have a space accident (shuttle or the recent colliding satellites) or a food outbreak to demonstrate this rule.
It’s in some ways more interesting to understand why so few sicknesses/accidents occur, given the apparent pervasiveness of the PCA salmonella. The recent acceleration in food outbreaks may simply be an early warning that the food system is becoming ever more creaky, ever more susceptible to the accidents that will certainly happen to complex systems. But, given the widespread filth, why did "only" 600 people get sick, and "only" eight die? This is not meant to be disrespectful to those or their families who did suffer; it’s an honest question.
I think sometimes we in the raw milk movement (in our zeal to give credit to milk for the many improvements in health which we have experienced, and I freely admit to being one of those people) tend to overlook that lots of other people walk around healthy too, and vast majorities of people manage to survive eating PCA peanut paste in its many wonderful manifestations (1400+ at last count). I think we in our own way fall into the trap of over-generalizing the goodness of raw milk, just as regulators who manage to "identify" a pathogen tend to generalize its absolute badness and the importance of rigidly eliminating its presence.
It is almost certain that neither extreme is correct. Raw milk won’t cure every ill, and all the antiseptic or cleanliness in the universe won’t wipe out all pathogens. In fact, the more we zap the susceptible ones, the stronger and more resilient become their nastier cousins. We are of this world and must coexist, and attempting to wall ourselves off is not only futile, it is counterproductive.
The world-views truly differ in their implications. The local/small context is based much more in free choice and accountability, thereby requiring minimal or no regulation, whereas the national/regional/huge context requires regulation and much less tolerance of error both because the complex system is inherently less stable and the consequences of error are potentially so much greater.
The benefit in local foods, of which raw milk is a prime example, is not that it is impervious to error. As the bumper sticker reminds us, sh*t happens, in this case literally and figuratively. With local foods, however, the overall scope and impact of a given incident is dramatically smaller. One may argue that the number of incidents is larger – this is possible, but we don’t really know the answer to this with our current state of knowledge about the numerical basics, i.e. number drinking raw milk and really good illness/outbreak data (transparent and honest, not with suitcase cheese incidents distorting the data, or inclusion of listeria or other warnings where there is no illness). It would be nice to progress a bit in the discussion, so that real advances could be made.
I have purposely left out of this discussion the perceived benefits of raw foods, since although I believe in them, they are difficult to prove in a reductionist scientific framework. I do believe we are proving the disadvantages of the industrial system in spades as we endure epidemic levels of chronic disease in this country, but hey, you are what you eat. I just would like it to be a free enough country so that I can choose what I want to eat.
Our surveillance system is iterrible Only a few states track foodborne illnesses in any meaningful way, and attempt to assign staff to conduct studies to link them to food products, so, the numbers are only the tip of an iceberg. The system makes it easy for any industry to go to bed at night thinking it will all be okay. Regarding the "listeria control program" described by a raw milk farmer above, I hope he crosses his heart and says a prayer before sending that product because the science does not support his approach. I don’t know Ron Hull (?) in the context of food safety – how much is he getting paid by WAPF to claim expertise in microbiology and dairy science? Steve- you show some sympathy toward the people who got sick. I’ve seen nothing from Ron Hull or his bank account at WAPF that resemblles sympathy or concern for kids that got sick from raw milk (or any other product). Hope the people they influence, like Mark, do not end up like this:
E-mails show peanut firm chief focusing on ‘$$$$$’
Salmonella problems were so common at a Georgia peanut plant that the company’s owner seemingly shrugged them off in e-mails.
"I go thru this about once a week. … I will hold my breath ………. again," Peanut Corp. of America president Stewart Parnell wrote last June.
And, I find it amazing to watch the endless, massive recall: every hour or two, another recall. Numerous "health food" bars…things sold at REI and Whole Foods. Are these companies checking their "farmer?" Apparently not.
E-mails show peanut firm chief focusing on ‘$$$$$’
IMHO we as a nation are insolvent financially, morally and devoid of common sense else why do we have so much trouble stepping out of the main stream to just buy raw dairy?
The published national debt exceeds $10.7 trillion dollars plus some say another $9 trillion dollars in Fed hand outs and Gov. bailouts plus another $50 trillion dollars or more in unfunded liabilities, totalling appx $70 trillion dollars. Perhaps someone should ask our 535 Reps. who never read the recently past stimulus bill what is a trillion dollars.
Here is one definition.
If one would began spending $1 dollar a second it would take 31,546 years to spend only $1 trillion dollars!!!
Impending doom? I sure hope not, but 5th grade math does not point to prosperity.
Because the globalist have torn down the insulating walls between nations the problems are systemic worldwide.
The last thing I want to be is a fearmonger, someone please tell me my conclusions are wrong.
Pipeline sanitizer kills the bacteria in the milk pipeline,so if a little bit gets in the milk it will just lower the bacteria count in the milk and I will get my quality bonus for having a low bacteria count. In fact, if I am having trouble with high bacteria counts,adding a little sanitizer to the bulk tank will help lower the count.This is the extent of the understanding of bacteria that most dairy farmers have.I believe this kind of thinking is common in the food processing industry in general.Even in our homes,we spray the counters where our food is prepared with antibacterial sprays,wash our dishes with antibacterial soap and wipe our hands with antibacterial wipes.Our food is preserved with antibacterial preservatives.The affect of all of these bacteriacides on our community of gut bacteria is to reduce its number and variety.In fact we are selecting for those bacteria that are resistant to all of these chemicals.In our gut the opportunistic bacteria and these bacteriacides work as a team killing off our commensal bacteria and establishing new communities of opportunistic bacteria.It reminds me of the way we treat our farms.We are constantly killing off the plants in a field to establish a new crop of opportunistic plants.This sort of monoculture leads to disease both on our farmland and in our guts.
The root of our problem is found in labeling some plants as "weeds" and failing to understand their importance to the health of the soil.likewise, it is an error to label some microbes as "germs" and to fail to recognize the role they play in our health.
Don, you’re right the regulatory systems are a complete failure. What has improved? there are still many outbreaks yearly. It appears that the majority of outbreaks are from poor sanitation. Something that could easily be corrected, but for some reason it is not.
Of the "only 600" who have become ill, is’nt it true that most who become ill with food poisoning don’t go to the MD? Most have GI issues for a few days "assuming" it is the flu. Thus causing the stats to incorrectly show the food poisonings numbers. Are TPTB investigating why it is that "only 8" died, what was it that caused them to die and not others? Isn’t that what scientists figure out? What are they doing to figure this out? Out of the whole population that has consumed peanuts in the last 6 months, why have "only 600" become ill? Are they trying to figure this out too?
Steve," I just would like it to be a free enough country so that I can choose what I want to eat. "
If this was a free country, we would be able to choose, without all the harassments. I fear this latest food poisoning will further push the irradiation, pasteurization, chemical ladened garbage onto all the foods. We won’t have any choices, nor will we be informed as to what has been done to our food. It will be growing your own food and saving your own seeds. Maybe trading foods with other small or backyard farmers will become popular.
Companies are established for a single purpose…to make money. Instilling the perspective (and rights) of an individual citizen to a corporation is what has warped this great country (and world).
PCA doesn’t have ‘a’ farmer…they have multitudes..and there in lies the crux….know your farmer (singular) is different. And the extrapolation of what I am putting forth, and trying to pigeonhole it into the other doesn’t work…although that’s all we get from the ‘establishment’… there is a distinct difference of what should be the right way to market raw milk…and it’s not the same as exists currently in any food delivery system (except of course in the CSA movement) Citizens need to have ‘ownership’ of the farmer and the products the produce….it’s not that way in corporate America (although many conventional dairymen are voluntarily ‘owned’ by the large co-ops)
Raw milk is different and will only thrive if it is approached without the constraints of the current paradigm…..if you try to do it this way, your postulations are…as we say, caca…….
I don’t know Ron Hull, but unless you do very well, that’s a really low shot, and very presumptuous. And besides, even it a particular individual is unsympathetic, what does it have to do with the movement? To those of us who believe in a "live-with-the-bugs" rather than "kill-the-bugs" lifestyle, the real inhumanity is with narrow minded scientists, doctors, and their government regulator sidekicks. It is those folks—the so-called experts—who have held the reins as we have become so terribly weak and sick. They have watched, and participated, as industry and other concentrated powers actually redefined what food is. They have waged war on all things natural, and and as disease and disability ramped upward, concluded that what we need is more of the same. Where is the sympathy in that?
Now here’s a wonderful thought from a book published originally in 1790, by Samuel Deane. (The book is an encyclopedia of agricultural practice, amazingly titled "The New England Farmer; Or Georgical Dictionary. Containing A Compedious Account Of The Ways And Methods In Which The Important Art Of Husbandry, In All Its Various Branches, Is, Or May Be, Practised, To The Greatest Advantage, In This Country.")
Here’s the quote:
"Fermentation does much towards the production and growth of plants. It is therefore a thing of much consequence to the farmer; and he ought to know by what means he can increase it in his ground." (Deane defined fermentation as "…an internal motion excited in substances, by which the cohesion of their parts is destroyed, and their nature changed.")
Long before the age of microscopy, Deane was unwittingly describing the benefits of healthy, diverse, microbial communities. His practical knowledge of cause and result on the farm also led him to say that "…dung, and other strong manures, are perhaps the chief causes of the fermentation of soils."
When I think of where such ideas might have taken us, and where we instead ended up, I could cry.
Let those tears be tears of joy……..it’s usually the worthwhile message that is lost to the masses.
Biology is a powerful ally…if you seek not to control it.
I don’t know Ron Hull
I can understand why you dont know Ron Hull. His training and work have mostly been in Australia.
Were you dismissive of his expertise? When I saw him, he was a very knowledgeable and credible witness. Im pretty sure he has never been of the WAPF payroll. (Makes too much money elsewhere.)
Ron Hulls sworn bona fides:
I, Ronald Robert Hull, being of sound mind and body and duly sworn, do hereby make the following statements based on my personal knowledge and to the best of my information and belief.
I am a resident of Mount Waverley, Victoria, Australia.
I earned my Bachelor of Science (Honors), and Doctor of Philosophy (PhD) from the University of Adelaide, South Australia in 1967 and 1971 respectively.
My PhD thesis topic was the Mode of action of Colicins. Colicins are antibiotics produced by certain strains of Escherichia coli</em.
I completed my post-doctoral training in the Molecular Oncology section of the Department of Pathology, Stanford University Medical Centre, Palo Alto, California in 1974.
In the period 1974 to 1984 I was a Research Scientist at the Dairy Research laboratory, Division of Food Science and Technology, Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial research Organization (CSIRO) in Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. During that time I developed a new technology for control of virus infection in dairy fermentations. The technology was widely adopted by the Australian dairy industry and is now used worldwide.
I was Curator of the CSIRO Starter Culture Collection, the primary reserve of several thousand strains of lactic acid bacteria used by the Australian dairy industry to manufacture cheese and fermented milks.
I was a guest researcher at Christian Hansen Laboratories, Denmark in 1985, researching commercial production of lactic cultures for cheese manufacture and probiotic cultures.
In the period 1986 to 1994 I was Head of the Dairy Microbiology section in the CSIRO Division of Food Science in Melbourne. In this period a probiotic product was developed for oral immunization against rotavirus disease in newborn horses; and killing factors active against Helicobacter pylori were identified from lactic acid bacteria.
In the period 1994 to present I am Principal Consultant and owner of Ron Hull & Associates, a technical food consulting business with clients in milk production and processing, distribution and retailing. I am also Technical Director of Semor Pty Ltd, Melbourne, Australia, a bakery ingredient supply company.
I was Chairman of the Organizing Committee for the First International Conference on Intestinal Micro-flora and Human Health, held in Australia in 1996.
I am a coauthor of several books on dairy microbiology and fermented foods.
I have published more than 80 peer-reviewed articles on dairy microbiology, lactic acid bacteria, probiotics and the use of probiotics to control disease.
During my career, I have been a member or officer of five professional organizations.
I have taught dairy microbiology, dairy technology, food microbiology and food safety to science and graduate students at the University of Melbourne and the Victoria University of Technology for twenty years.
I have served as a member of the Reference Group to the Food Standards Committee of the Victorian Department Health for five years.
I have testified several times in courts of law as an expert in dairy microbiology and food safety.
What are your qualifications if any?
Post your curriculum vitae. Whose payroll are you on?
I notice that you like to cast aspersions on others.
Okay, I think you are right – my point was not well stated. I’ll have to give it some thought, and try again to share the thought, but without questioning someone’s credibility.
Thank you for your many contributions to this forum. They help keep the discussion lively and thoughtful.
No one says perfectly what one wants to say all the time and because I like the overall honoring tone of your comments, I only wanted to give you a heads up. Actually, I am comfortable with anyone questioning / challenging anothers credibility (without flaming) its an important tool for getting to an understanding of what is really so. I just think it should be done based on good information.
*might try getting something going with our honey/honeycomb/pollen collections from those great bees*
Go for it. A cottage honey-industry might be a real good thing for bringing new friends into your life. There are probably other beekeepers in your county we have several commercial beekeepers and many amateurs in ours, and they meet monthly. My favorite is Star Thistle that comes mostly from Nevada. And were able to get it raw!
Warning labels on HONEY? Whats going on?
As stated earlier when I brought the twins home from the hospital and since they no longer had a mother to nurse them the only natural and viable alternative as far as I was concerned was to feed them raw milk mixed with raw honey and fresh water from the well. All three of the above ingredients are considered taboo and shunned by the majority of experts and would have only been marginally accepted if I had pasteurized or sterilized them. Born premature Jacob was a little over 4lbs and Angela was slightly over 5lbs at the time.
They are now twenty one years of age and have never seen a doctor nor have they been vaccinated or received drugs of any kind since their birth.
Ken Conrad