Planning for Debate About Raw Milk and Immunity: The Issues Clarify, But Is There Anyone to Talk To?
Friday, February 27, 2009 at 10:41AM 
At the raw milk symposium last week sponsored by the International Association for Food Protection, there was brave talk about “continuing the dialog” between those opposing raw milk consumption and the handful of individuals there, including Sally Fallon of the Weston A. Price Foundation, who are for it. (In the photo, Sally Fallon is shown chatting with Allen Sayler of the International Dairy Foods Association, the symposium’s moderator.)
The “anti” panelists who convened at the end of the day tried to signal their openness by considering alternatives to pasteurization.
The reality, though, is that the gulf between the two sides is very wide. A key reason it is so wide is that one of the main parties in the conflict, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration’s dairy division head, John Sheehan, refuses even to show his face at an event where “pro” reps like Sally Fallon are going to be present.
A big reason Sheehan refuses to show his face, I’m sure, is that he can’t begin to face up to the issues discussed following my previous post—that the raw milk debate opens up the much bigger issue of the role of nutrient-dense foods in strengthening our immune systems, and of processed foods in tearing immune systems down. The letter Phil Adams received from his congressman sounds like it was written from FDA propaganda.
Miguel captures the situation well when he states:
“The regulatory agencies attack the problem from the top. What regulations will put an end to these illnesses and make our food safe? They have identified the cause of these illnesses as an ever increasing list of 'pathogens.' So along with the war on terrorists, drugs, poverty, etc. we have the war on bacteria (bacteria, pathogens what’s the difference?) The weapons against bacteria are of course antibiotics, sanitizers, preservatives, herbicides, chemical fertilizers, pesticides etc.
”The grass roots movement toward a healthy life depends on bacteria to protect us from disease. We see them as allies indistinguishable from ourselves. Here is where we clash with the regulators. Their war on bacteria is threatening us and our children. It is also threatening them and their children. The grass roots movement will continue to grow like bacteria do, at an exponential rate, unless the regulators, afraid of defeat, reach for ever more powerful weapons in their war.”
Lykke is correct in pointing out the problems associated with education, but education won't make progress if public health officials are disbelieving of the undelying message. The next big dairy event is the National Conference on Interstate Milk Shipments in Orlando, FL, April 17-22. Interestingly, Organic Pastures Dairy Co. owner Mark McAfee has written Sheehan proposing a meeting there: “I would like to meet with you and your team for a discussion so I can learn why it is that your FDA position is so absolutely dead set against raw milk when it is tested and regulated. In CA 420 stores carry raw milk and people are not dying. In fact people are rejoicing.”
Now, that would definitely be an interesting session to observe. But do you want to lay odds on Sheehan even attending this key dairy industry conference, let alone meeting with McAfee? I’d say the odds are he’ll chicken out once again, and maybe send an underling.
As a further indication of the wide gulf between pro and anti forces, there’s a new assessment out in one of Canada’s largest newspapers about the recent trial of Michael Schmidt on charges of illegally selling raw milk. It labels Schmidt’s cow share a way to “circumvent” the law. It compares raw milk to marijuana (ignoring the more apt comparison to alcohol). But the writer gives away his true ignorance at the end when he says, “The increasingly frequent outbreaks of food-borne illnesses such as listeriosis should remind us of ... the need for regulation and consumer protection.” Uh, Monsieur Picard, it’s listeriosis in pasteurized milk that kills much more frequently than in unpasteurized milk; in fact, there wasn't a documented case of listeriosis from raw milk (excluding chees) in the U.S. between 1973 and 2005.
It’s tough to begin discussing real issues like strengthening immune systems when the oppressors won’t talk, and disbelief among them prevails.
Reader Comments (39)
I have a good friend who is a PhD hydrologist, working with a government agency , who has verified this. It is a huge problem that the agencies do not want to even acknowledge let alone begin to deal with.
All the antibiotics that people are taking, whether properly prescribed or not are to some degree being peed out into the water supply, to say nothing of the unused remainders of prescriptions that are flushed down the toilet. The antibacterial soaps are going into this supply. It may be (this is speculation on my part) that some of the antibiotics people consume when they eat factory farmed meat, are also passing through into the water supply
So yes, we do need to do as much bottom up education and protective eating as we can, but it is hard to imagine that the situation won't continue get worse unless this aspect is addressed as well.
It IS complex and circular because there are so many feedback loops involved and much as we would like a silver bullet, be it probiotic foods or putting increasingly large bubbles around ourselves, it just doesn't work that way.
Anyone remember that old commercial that said "You can't fool Mother Nature" ?
Time to take a measure of our progress. In 1972, Earl Butts, the Secretary of Ag under Nixon said...."when you hear the word Organic, think starvation!"
In 2002, Dr. Dan Glickman signed the USDA National Organic Plan into law.
It took 30 years for organics to become law. Thats quite a transition and political transformation.
John Sheehan is the E.Butts of 2009. The internet will shorten time and so will the exposure of the truth and the failing health of the sheepeople as they die off after consuming FDA lies in pill form.
So as we look into the mirror and the rear view mirror, I think we have made fantastic progress. We have framed the issues and the other side will not show up.
This is the greatest change that will face our nation. It is the origin of disease and how to prevent it. It is about our food origins and how humans will sustain life on earth. It is about that greater part of us we can not see or touch. It is about our immunity and bacteria.
We are making great progress....congrats. We only have about 15years to go to be marginally acknowledged if the internet works to shrink time by 50% ( I think it works faster than that ).
During that time....we will take the "FDA Germ Theory" paradigm apart little by little and replace it: sheepeople by sheepeople, immune system by immune system, vote by vote, dollar by dollar, sip by sip and cup by cup.
A great time to be alive and drink raw milk.
Mark
http://www.latimes.com/features/health/la-he-nutrition2-2009mar02,0,4757880.story
http://www.madison.com/tct/opinion/column/440669
China is the answer to Johns question. If TPTB have their way!
Last week I bought 2 5lbs boxes of frozen haddock to my dismay at home I saw that the raw product was from Norway BUT PACKAGED BY CHINA the store was kind enough to refund my money. Canned mushrooms are very hard to obtained that are not from China, nor any kitchen tool and on and on.
President Nixon traveled to China many years ago to an isolated closed enemy nation that was no real threat to us. He hailed the break thru! I wondered at the time why did he even want to open trade with them for surely only they would gain.
China now nearly owns us and TPTB are begging them to continue to buy our worthless unpayable debt.
Someone needs to tell our utterly blind leaders the answer to our nations food and monetary problems is not China and more debt or the USDA, FDA, NAIS, NAFTA, WTO,UN. The solution is to favor our own small farms and our ability to manufacture our own real products. The answer to our problems lies within the USA. But they will not listen.
while i deeply believe real food is vital to our health and well being, discussing milks roll in the vaccum it is currently held in is starting to seem futile and completely misguided.
what we need to be discussing is the real issue. our government needs to be recalled. we need to scrap all our federal reps and hold emergency elections to replace them all.
this has to be done soon.
we need to all declare ourselves as american patriots. and stop this madness in its tracks.
sign me, quickly losing faith in america.
http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quotes_by/frank+zappa
"The United States is a nation of laws: badly written and randomly enforced."
"Government is the Entertainment Division of the military-industrial complex."
"In the fight between you and the world, back the world."
"The illusion of freedom [in America] will continue as long as it’s profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater."
"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible."
"A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open."
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe."
"I'm vile and perverted.
I'm obsessed and deranged.
I've existed for years but very little has changed.
I'm the tool of the government and industry too.
For I'm destined to rule and regulate you.
You may think I'm pernicious, but you can't look away.
I'll make you think I'm delicious with the stuff that I say.
I'm the best you can get... have you guessed me yet?
I'm the slime oozing out of your TV set...."
Quotes from Frank Zappa
Dan B.
From your link, "raw milk producers have to take extra care to prevent contamination of their milk, Bishop says. Sanitary conditions, attention to diet, milk testing and cattle health screening can help prevent contamination episodes, and researchers in Europe -- where raw milk is widely used in cheese production -- have pioneered protocols to help ensure that raw milk is pathogen-free, he says. ""They can have that [raw] milk coming off the farm with minimal bacteria -- but it takes a lot more effort," Bishop says. "
This tells that the raw dairy producers are more sanitary and healthy than the factory feed lots. (duh) So it takes more effort to achieve that goal. What is Bishop's point in his statement?
I can't see it being about bacteria/pathogens. If the govt was so strongly against "pathogens" there would be some form of strict standards on all foods, especially those that have a greater potential of contamination, for example; hotdogs, lunch meats, etc. These places that have been proven to cause the greatest and most frequent food poisonings would be severely monitored and they are not. Peanutbutter is a good example, just 2-3 yrs ago it had an outbreak and now another. No, it isn't about the bacteria/pathogens in the raw milk. Feedlot dairies cannot produce safe raw milk, so they wouldn't be able to compete with the dairies like Claravale or OP.
The people of this country have forgotten what freedom is, and to the extent they run into it they fear it and trust the government. The paradigm shift from slavery to freedom is great. People need a story to get them there. Raw milk provides that story:
It exposes the futility of government regulation.
It exposes the utter corruption of government.
It exposes the bold tyranny of government.
It exposes the danger, futility, and corruption of the medical establishment.
It exposes the real harm the system has done to them and their own.
It causes them to make tangible life changes.
It presents a positive vision for the future. A vision in line with the way things used to be, the way we always wanted them to be but forgot about.
The important part of this vision is this: it is a positive change that sets up the alternative system to replace the present corrupt one.
There are always two big problems when dealing with tyranny: 1) convincing people the problem exists 2) providing tangible, useful actions for those who recognize the problem to take. Local food and raw milk provide this, if we are not co-opted.
And yes, they have contingencies should this little raw milk business get out of hand. We are just barely out of the ignoring stage.
"any enzymes the milk contains have no proven benefit for humans"
Tell that to the supposedly lactose intollerant who to their great joy discover they can drink raw milk. But we're back to the old no studies show garbage; which, when put in opposition to tangible empirical experience is just a fraudulent argument from authority.
You know, now that we've seen the real harm pasteurized milk causes, and its utter inferiority compared to raw milk; there really isn't any way it can ever hope to compete with raw milk in a free market. They have to suppress it.
Excellent point, Pete. Raw milk seems to provide a "story" on many levels. It is symbolic of various struggles with farming, government, society...regardless of what "side" one leans toward on the health implications (good or bad), I think somehow "raw milk" has become an example (symbol?) bigger things going on...
that's why it is so important that raw milk become available to everyone who wants it...it's a litmus test of our future....
http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/environment/agriculture/news.php?q=1235862701
Not all of our chains are visable but all our chains result in slavery nonetheless. The UN recently stated there are now more slaves than at any time in human history and you can be sure the we and the American farmers were not included in their count. Debt is a form of slavery and no nation in history has ever been so indebted than our beloved land of the free.
Pete & Lykke,
I like your thought. I think you have noticed something that has drawn most of us to this blog. I would like to hear more. I would appreciate it if each of you (others too?) would elaborate.
David,
Another reason that the gulf between the two sides is so wide is that the anti group is very comfortable continuing to make a lot of money by keeping the rules just as they are. Ideology follows the money.
This link has some fantastic and thought provoking information. It ties into the discussion we’ve been having on this blog about immunity. Bottom line, if a mother’s internal ecosystem of bacteria isn’t balance she will not produce a baby with a healthy immune system….give the baby a few vaccinations with a weakened immune system and you have a disaster.
How do we connect the dots for future moms? A healthy immune system (meaning a healthy gut) is the foundation of health.
cp
It's important to educate the people about a healthy immune system,but without more people producing the kind of food that encourages a healthy gut flora it will only lead to a lot of frustrated people.People need to be educated on how to produce the type of food that encourages a healthy immune system and then when they do begin to produce this food the regulators should get out of the way and let them.Michael Schmidt is a perfect example of a farmer who knows how to produce this food.Look at what they have done to him.
Even adults who have a fully developed immune system suffer damage to their immune systems by vaccines that bypass the normal route of infection by being directly injected into the muscle tissue.
Should Supermarkets Teach About Antibiotics?
Experts Want Pharmacies To Get Smart
http://www.thebostonchannel.com/healthsource/18800362/detail.html
Some supermarkets use flu season to get people interested in their free antibiotics programs.
But the Infectious Diseases Society of America wants the pharmacies to get smart about antibiotics, which will not help treat a viral infection such as influenza. They want the dispensaries to educate customers on when antibiotics can do more harm than good.
The group said, for instance, that overuse of antibiotics helps promote resistant strains such as methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus, often called MRSA or the "superbug."
"Supermarkets have the power to protect their customers' health," said Dr. Lauri Hicks of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. "If they sought to educate people about when antibiotics work and when they don't, they would be doing a great public service."
The CDC offers a "get smart" program to teach about proper antibiotic use.
If this refers to regulators, I still don't think it is directly about the money such as bribes or pay out from industry. There is a type of person that gravitates to those government jobs - not all, but quite a few in those positions thrive on power and control (and little else)...they covet titles like "Chief," "Director." There is one place where money could play a role - some managers will move from the government after retirement into very sweet industry positions (in the same industry they used to regulate) at triple their government salary.