I figured my previous posting about the middle road wouldn’t sit well with some readers. Actually, it doesn’t sit well with me in important ways. I agree with Sylvia that asking questions about a food-borne illness doesn’t necessarily equate with denial. And with Dave Milano, that this country has implemented so many controls on food and health care, and moved so far from its original ideals, that the middle road may not be all that much in the middle any more.
Part of what I was trying to suggest is that people in the line of fire, like Scott Freeman, the Colorado dairyman dealing with a possible campylobacter outbreak from his milk, need to work within the existing system. It’s so difficult to run a business today in the U.S., what with all the economic and marketplace pressures, that it’s asking too much of people like Scott to fight highly principled legal cases, at the risk of their entire livelihoods, not to mention the raw milk supplies of 200 shareholders. You have to hope that trying to establish an atmosphere of flexibility and compromise, with media watching, can set some precedents that begin to move the pendulum back toward a true middle road over some period of time.
It’s ironic that in the midst of all this discussion about identifying causes and assessing blame in one case of possible raw-milk-triggered food-borne illness, we have a settlement in two others—the cases involving the serious illnesses from food-borne illness in California of children Chris Martin and Lauren Herzog (pictured above). Mark McAfee of Organic Pastures Dairy Co. announced the settlements in his comment following my previous post:
“We would like to announce that both of (Bill) Marler’s 2006 OPDC raw milk cases have settled.” The parties came together this week at a court-required mediation session in Fresno.
The cases, which were filed by the families in state court in early 2008, were the two most serious of six illnesses in September 2006 attributed by California health officials to tainted Organic Pastures dairy products.
State officials quarantined Organic Pastures in Fresno for several days as they searched the dairy for a match to the E.coli 0157:H7 found in five of the six children who became ill. No match was ever found.
As in nearly all such cases, in which some cash payment is made to victims to avoid a court trial, part of the settlement includes a stipulation that everyone will keep the terms confidential. Everyone has an interest in keeping things quiet—insurance companies don’t want other litigants to know how much was paid out; lawyers don’t want it known how much, or how little, they settled for; and victims don’t want Aunt Millie and Cousin Jim to know about the new cash windfall their relatives have just come in for.
As Mark McAfee makes clear, it’s safe to say that everyone involved in this contentious case is extremely relieved to have it behind them. The two cases were the subject of on-and-off debate, much of it quite acrimonious, since Mary McGonigle-Martin first revealed her family’s experiences dealing with son Chris’ illness in a series of postings I ran in March and April 2007.
If you haven’t been following these cases, you can search the index under “Mary” and begin to get a sense of the intensity of the discussion.
Mark McAfee makes a poignant case for mutual understanding in explaining how he and Bill Marler, the lawyer who represented the families, and was bitterly denunciated on this blog, came together. “Marler and I both agreed to be civil to one another and we shook on it….eye to eye…man to man. I actually really enjoyed meeting him. Let that be a lesson in email and blogging. People are much better in person than how they appear and how they throw email rocks from behind the electronic smoke screen that often increases the nerve and stregthens the spine. What ever happened to good old honest eye to eye communications?”
I’m not sure I understand why there needs to be a "middle road". Why does the govt have such power over what we consume?
"No match was ever found."
Speculation. This is justice? I understand the reasoning behind "settling", I don’t agree with it, just understand the reasoning behind it.
Just some food for thought concerning the settlement, I neither care nor want to know what the details are and do understand the parties desire for secrecy but would our society be better served with openness?
TPTB hold many many closed hearings before they decide our fate and the many open hearings they hold are little more than political grandstanding!
"The word secrecy in a FREE society is repugnant" John F Kennedy
I had a very Interesting conversation yesterday, and I thought you all would enjoy a bit of it.
I shook hands and had a very nice conversation with John Sheehan. He is the chief in charge of the FDA dairy and egg safety division. He is also a lawyer by training. I am not sure why the FDA placed a lawyer in charge of dairy food safety….but he is.
He is famously quoted as saying that "drinking raw milk is like playing Russian Roullette with your health". He has also said no one for any reason should ever drink raw milk.
After he and I had a chance to talk for a few minuutes, I offered him a copy of a my presentation package that conatains about 50 pages of information about " the citizens petition to amend CFR 1240.61" .
He told me this….FDA counsel has informed me to not exchange information or dialogue with you, so I can not accept the package you have offered to me".
He went on to say that because the FDA is suing OPDC in a civil court action ( the FDA criminal matter is settled on the same subject ) for shipping raw dairy products across state lines that all information must pass their FDA counsel. I suppose I should send John a copy through his attorney.
My package will be introduced to the NCIMS tommorrow morning when I officially present the argument to the committee and its members. On that committee several FDA representatives will get a copy of the package that argues…. " Tear down the FDA raw milk wall that divides Americans". So I guess John will get it anyway.
A dairy friend of mine and pilot here in Florida told me yesterday that I he was told to stay as far from me as possible….that I was political poison at the NCIMS. He said he did not care one bit and he even flew me in his Maule M-7 airplane to his home and dairy last evening and I stayed with him and his wonderful family. He told me that "me being at the NCIMS and speaking about raw milk was like walking into a Catholic church and screaming…there is no god!!! at the top of my lungs".
I think I might start my presentation with that statement tommorrow…but then assure everyone that there is a god and he engineered raw milk just fine the way it is when it is produced in natural conditions etc….and cite the data.
So far my experience has been a little tamer than "screaming there is no god in church". In fact I spoke with Ted Elkins ( the state guy that spoke with Liz Reitzieg on the Food Network ) on the Food Network show about raw milk last week. Nice guy.
What I find here is that nearly everyone ( nearly everyone I have spoken with anyway ) drank raw milk as a kid on the farm or dairy….but now would never speak of it at the NCIMS. I have also found that the individuals are open and kind and receptive when "one on one"…but as a group they are scared sheep and extremely conservative and unwilling to even think about rocking the boat. Not one little bit. When contraversy is brought forward for discussion….the committees fall silent as if the FDA in the room will shoot the first to talk, whisper or sneeze out of line. There is no room here for pioneers and new thinkers. Even if science agrees. This is a place filled with mono thinking sterile loving dinasaurs.
When it comes to raw milk this is "group think city" and the FDA ( this place is thick with FDA including the military uniformed high ups ) is here to assure that policy changes extremely slowly and very conservatively….
When I told Sheehan that my purpose here was to exchange raw milk information, argue for consumers rights, and start an open positive dialogue with the FDA, he was polite and very lawyerly but said….that the lawyers had advised the FDA not to engage in exchange with me about raw milk due to pending litigation.
Slam…the FDA door is shut.
I am just now am overcoming the anger of being politically screwed here at NCIMS….I have practiced extreme restraint. I was emailed the schedule of the committees in front of which I was to present. This included the science committee on Friday morning. I spent a fortune to arrive early to the conference and then showed at the committee only to be told that they would not here my petition. No notice and no apology….
Dr. Beam who sits on the committee was pleasant but just told me that the issues about raw milk would not be heard at the committee… and had been dropped from his schedule.
I was blown away. This is the oldest trick in the book. The old bait and switch and cause more pain trick. What is sad is that the science committee had the heavy hitters on it including the FDA and high level decision makers. In retrospect….I now know why the raw milk issue was scuttled to a lessor committee. Sheehan and high level FDA and Beam did not want to hear about CA raw milk and did not want to engage in any intellectual discussion with "yours truly". I showed up…but they refused to allow discussion. WOW!!
I have a had a chance to speak with the committee chairman for Sundays hearing of the raw milk issues. So at least I know that I will be heard then ( at least I hope ).
So that is the lay of the land….and it is fascinating. I have been approached repeatedly by all kinds of state and federal people down here that are open minded and fascinated with legal raw milk and how it can be done. But they will not engage in group discussion with in earshot of an FDA person or other NCIMS person. It is as if….they all know the truth but can not bare to be involved with it for fear of loss of their jobs.
This is a long multi year educational and political process. It will take repeated attendance and standing up and being counted. It will take being respectful and powerful…by just showing up and speaking the truth. The NCIMS youth will inherit the future and the youth at NCIMS are open in private. The old will retire and die off. From the looks of their health….it looks like that might be sooner than later.
Another thing I learned from NCIMS…the coffee breaks are very long and the high level meetings are held in the hallways at the NCIMS conference…. and the hallways are the NCIMS conference.
In Fresno….the farmers market today was huge with long lines and crowds of people buying raw milk. Raw milk in CA has hit a tipping point. What a disconnect from Orlando….it is Political Micky Mouse verses….the real world of people in CA.
I only wish the FDA could listen. Not one thing has been mentioned at NCIMS about things done to improve immunity so that fewer people will get sick from bugs. The entire discussion is about sterilization and control over sterilization and methods to assign blame from those that break rules that the FDA imposes.
I pray for the day that the discussion becomes balanced and includes the the other side of food safety….the improvement of consumers immunity through nutrition so fewer not more people get sick to begin with. I even spoke with a high level Deans Foods guy today and he was fascinated with my perspective and had not heard it before. He was totally intrigued and from the look on his face…I thought he had seen a Nobel winning genius or a ghost. Not sure which.
There are hints of light and cracks in the Armor….the FDA chiefs and many NCIMS guys are all older and ready to retire.
All the best,
Mark McAfee
Keep up the great work!
Is it to early for us serfs to declare our first real victory the intellectual battle for the RAW TRUTH about RAW DAIRY? They do not have a monoploy on the TRUTH. Winning the intellectual battle may be easy compared to other tools used by TPTB. LEGALESE and all its hidden meanings and plays on words may be much harder to overcome.
"The Solution: Nothing We Could Ever Have Found We Had to Arrive."
"The only thing in existence in the universe is energy. Knowing how to make that work for us is all we need to know. The only way we can make energy work for us is to know who we are.
Studying rules to a game which appears to be made up and controlled by them is a waste of time. There are only a few things we need to know about them. Our experience of them exists for the same reason that our experience of anything exists because we created it. We created them and our experiences with them, in order to discover who we are. Our experiences of them are solely for the purpose of our spiritual evolution, which happens to entail challenging ourselves to discover the truth about our power. This is all an illusion and we are simply here to observe our conduct which will reveal the degree to which we realize our all-powerful nature. The reason we cannot win by finding a solution within their rules is because that would ruin the game. We have forgotten that it is OUR game. Our only rule is: we cant win until we remember who we are. Its a Catch 22. We cant win because we dont know who we are but as soon as we remember, the game ceases to exist. Therein lies the win because the game was designed for us to discover ourselves and, when we do, its over.
We created antagonists solely for the drama since they appear to be sub-plots to the main plot which is the drama of observing ourselves. Ive noticed that many emails I receive report some form of theft of our basic rights. The most righteous of the writers complain of the new laws which restrict our choices of healthcare. Did it ever cross their minds that this might be good news? If we cant have these health products, I guess well have to realize who we are, learn that there is nothing outside ourselves, and go about healing ourselves. Whenever I hear about this sort of thing, I always take a look at it from another perspective. When I worked at Banff hospital, someone complained that The Province is no longer going to pay for .. (some procedure). Nurses were angry. I told them that this is good news because this is pushing people to take responsibility for their own health. Medicine or Naturopathy or whatever they are all external and no matter what the Province does or no longer will do, they are forcing us to get it through our skulls that we can create perfect health all by ourselves. We do not need anything or anyone for the things in life which we have been programmed to believe that we can obtain only from the professionals teachers, doctors (allopathic or otherwise), ministers, lawyers, etc. Havent we learned, yet, that none of them is as good as our own intuition, which is our connection to Spirit? Those who send out this sort of news do not know who they are and, maybe, are as threatening to our realization of our personal power as any other well-programmed bureaucrat. The mere fact that some have made distinctions between allopathy and naturopathy tells me that they do not see the distinction between looking within and looking without"
Rather than be angry at the beaurocrats for being so difficult,we should be taking a hard look at what they are teaching us.And be thankful that they are there to teach us something we need to learn.Understanding that they are our creation to help us learn who we really are,completely eliminates the anger we might have towards them.That anger is just in the way anyway .It is of no use.Instead of seeing them as opponents we should recognize them as our best teachers.
My presentation before the Raw Milk and Cow Shares committee was one of the more attended committee hearings of the conference. The place was packed.
The chairman ( Wanye Cook ) of the committee was kind and considerate and allowed me to speak and there were at least six that spoke in oposition to the proposal to allow raw milk to flow accross state lines with FDA regulation.
Big industry finnally spoke in unity against all raw milk even raw milk inside of states. So we all know from where our oposition comes from. It is the fear of market intrusion…..not a food safety issue.
The big hitters conveniently did not attend the raw milk committee meeting. No Sheehan, no FDA Hennes, or Childers….they all sent there subordinates to hear the presentation.
Not one word from FDA’s Cindy Leonard who was sent by Sheehan.
In my self evaluation…I felt it went very well. Pete Kennedy spoke twice in support of the proposal.
The committee also failed to submit a recommendation on the subject of Herdshares. I guess this is good news. The NCIMS will not be taking an official Herd Share position inspite of two years of committee research and suposed discussions. The chairman also…moved his committee to be disbanded. Not sure how this will turn out.
David Gumpert did fine work today and took pictures that have never been seen before. After John Sheehan had been pointed out in the audience by the speaker during one general session….David went up to John and asked to speak with him. John refused to speak…..but David got his picture. David got a great picture with John attempting to cover his face and not be photographed.
This is the status of FDA and raw milk dialogue…..it is at a place called "denial and avoidance". I kind of think of it as "the FDA praying and faking like hell that the emporer is clothed in fine linens….but knowing and seeing like everyone else….that the emporer is naked, fat and ugly. This is why they take no questions and run like rats from the issue.
So that is the daily report….David will have much more on this.
I have one more presentation this afternoon. I will see what I can do to plant more organic seeds of change and trust. That is hard to do….but in this "deep policy denial" the seeds will sprout and be fertilized with time and the great emergence of the peoples will.
The great divide between FDA and NCIMS will get greater and greater as the people emerge as a raw roots revolution simply overpowers and over rules the FDA as irrelevant. There will be congressional hearings on this matter with in 10 years. Trust me on this. Congress wil ask about immune depression and why no one held the FDA responsible for the sterilization of two or three generations of Americans.
I tried by best today!!
I told the NCIMS that "We will be back and we will be bigger….don’t you want to know what we are all about as we grow???? We need a dialogue"….The answer was clearly and profoundedly ….we want no dialogue.
But today there was dialogue and they received the package loaded with data and consumer truths and science from arround the world. We spoke truth to power and we were counted.
I count this as a huge first base hit.
All the best,
Mark McAfee
No, it is the fear of a glass of milk causing permanent paralysis or kidney damage. This risk comes with other foods too, but since the studies have not been done to "prove" that the benefits outweigh the risks…the vast majority of regulators, public health scientists, and food safety advocates will continue to recommend (or require) pasteurization.
Looking back, this is the campylobacter outbreak in which the state had a PCR positive leftover milk sample from the patient’s home.
http://www.montrosepress.com/articles/2009/04/18/news/doc49ea5f73501f4778611886.txt
"One of Marlers clients, a formerly healthy 39-year-old Californian, developed a rare and progressively paralytic illness after drinking raw milk. Marler said shes been rendered quadrupalegic and claims raw milk is to blame."
Lets be clear on this…..this Campy outbreak was not from either of the CDFA CA state inspected raw milk dairies ( OPDC and Claravale were not part of this ).
This patient is not paralized ( now ) even though she had a period of GBS after her immune system could not deal with Campy. She had also just recieved chemotherapy and was about as immune depressed as they get.
Marler will do anything he can to create a fire even when there is none.
Marler creates liability so he can get his buck… that is his niche in life.
Also….this cowshare program is not one bit at fault. Every single one of the cow share owners was fully advised of the potential liability of consuming raw milk. This patient was a consenting advised adult.
What ever happened to CP?
Now that the case settled no more CP….what is up with that??
Mark
I have a homework assignment for you. Look up the word narcissist. My silence doesnt have anything to do with the OP case or you. Believe it or not, this blog is not all about you.
Ive actually grown tired of all the crazy talk on this blog. When there is an outbreak, its always everything but the milk. The denial process is interesting to observe. But what disgusts me the most is the lack of sensitivity towards people and families of children who have become ill. And then there are all the factual mistakes in the updated version of the Untold Story of Milk. If this movement needs to lie to get people to try raw milk then that is pathetic. The leaders of the raw milk movement lack integrity. I wonder how long it is going to take everyone to figure this out.
BTW, kudos to Scott Freeman. He is a role model for all raw milk dairy farmers. He is gracious, compassionate and open to the possibility that it could be his milk. And if it is his milk, he wants to find the cause and then come up with a solution so that it reduces the chance of it happening again.
As for the woman involved in the Campy case, how do you know what the status of her health is? Do you know more than her attorney? And by the way, it is the cow share owners fault. I think you are still missing the pointthere shouldnt be cow shit in the milk.
cp
It baffles me too how some raw milk advocates feel comfortable fabricating a person’s medical history, especially when it is so easily disproven. If that patient looks at this website, it is probably painful to see a fictional account of her tragedy. Similarly, why change the description of a farm connected with an outbreak. Amanda brings up the spinach outbreak in 2006…the Schmid book describes the ranch where the spinach outbreak strain was found as a feedlot – one can easily look up the location, drive by, and see that it is a pasture-based operation marketing "grass fed" beef. In that example, it was either an outright lie by the author and editors, or a total lack of effort (laziness) in gathering the facts. Can anyone explain why these fabrications are created by supposed leaders in the movement?
I’m not defending TPTB for their lack of communication. But, how can folks here point a finger at them for lying while doing the same thing?
So all this fuss is because of …the fear of a glass of milk causing permanent paralysis or kidney damage. (And I presume you would include other less serious diseases and conditions.) Hmm.
I know many dialysis patients. Most of them are diabetics. Some are said to be victims of high blood pressure. ( I would sday they are all, in large part, victims of oxidative stress.) I know far fewer quadriplegics than kidney patients, but in my profession I run into more than most. Almost all of these are trauma victims. Automobile accidents are probably (my guess) number one. Highest on the list of medical causes of quadriplegia and paraplegia is malignancy, then (again, my guess) osteoporosis. Trauma aside, these things are resultant essentially of a sick diet and toxin overload.
Now fear is a terrible motivator in any case, but if you wish to act out of fear, my suggestion is that you place your fears where they would do the most goodin those things with the highest odds of producing a negative result, for example, the Standard American Diet.
cp,
The dialysis patients are good representatives of the massive pain and suffering occurring in industrialized societies.
You say "…what disgusts me the most is the lack of sensitivity towards people and families of children who have become ill."
I feel that I am genuinely sympathetic to all who suffer. Included are the millions of people suffering terribly and needlessly from chronic degenerative illness, cancer, allergies, mental disease, and so on. I drink raw milk in part because it is helping me and my family climb out of that hole. We want you and the regulators to stay out of our way. Is that not a reasonable request?
And Lykke,
I cannot answer for anyone but myself, but I am certainly not lying. I, as one of the "folks here" feel smeared when you write comments like that. It is also cheap talk, since, as you know, it is fallacious logic to denigrate a cause because someone has lied about it (and a sophomoric debating technique as well–beneath your own apparent standards).
Please, all of you who feel comfortable interfering with a natural man’s access to raw milk: Tell me exactly, who endowed you with the right to do it?
I was just responding to comments here and a book in publication. My biggest standard is communication, and I find the lack thereof shameful by my own colleagues when it happens. And, am not afraid to admit it either (even in their company). I hope there is change with the new administration, and it includes transparency. But, also do not apologize for questioning these really blatant statements that cannot be backed-up by leaders in the raw milk movement. If these were minor things, I wouldn’t say anything. It is not minor to re-write someone’s medical history (conditions before and after the outbreak – which should be protected by HIPPA anyway), and misrepresent a high-profile outbreak…that is shameful too. And, I feel no moral dilemma saying so, or asking why others put up with it without saying something.
Sorry if I offended you, because I respect you and your many well-articulated insights here. You have never been anything but caring about the persons who are ill (whether from acute foodborne illness or chronic problems from a poor diet). We actually agree on many points, especially a number of aspects concerning the food rights issue and problems with the way raw milk is regulated.
Why don’t you fill us in about this paralyzed patient? Give us all the details please
A small (or perhaps not so small) point of clarification: You mention that we agree on "a number of aspects concerning the food rights issue and problems with the way raw milk is regulated."
I’m sure that we agree on many things, but for the record, I see no reason or right to impose any regulation on any natural man. In other words, it’s not "how" milk is regulated, but whether it is. (Laws are one thing, regulations quite another.) I’m all for information and ideas, and the broad dissemination of both, but I do not support regulating behaviors that hurt no one.
What government creates (read: corporations) government can and should control. But there is no provision in natural law for government to control natural men.
What about the paralyzed woman? What are the details?
Thanks for your concern about the GBS patient. Reports indicate that she was a previously healthy 39 year old woman. She was not on chemotherapy or immunocompromised. Three days after drinking raw milk from a cow leasing program (she was a new raw milk consumer) she developed signs and symptoms of Campylobacter followed by GBS. After a long period of being paralyzed and on a ventilator, she was released from the hospital, and remains partially paralyzed (quadraplegic). Leftover raw milk that she had consumed before illness tested positive for Campylobacter by PCR.
Campylobacter species and Guillain-Barr syndrome.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9665983
Thanks for the info.
Was the Campylobacter traced back to the farm?