DATCP chief Rod Nilsestuen, who today ordered formation of a raw milk working group.As I read various accounts of the situation regarding the British Columbia raw dairy that’s been targeted by authorities for supposedly tainted milk, I am drawn to Michael Schmidt’s advice (per his comment following my previous post): “We need to continuously reach out, educate and discuss in a respectful manner the issue.” I would go a step further and suggest we need to seek to develop a spirit of cooperation, rather than confrontation.
Of course, the obvious response is: Sometimes you need confrontation in order to arrive at cooperation.
In British Columbia, it seems that the issue is about high coliform counts rather than the discovery of pathogens in the dairy’s milk. The dairy’s owner indicates there was a problem for several weeks with the cows’ bedding material, which may have led to less than optimal sanitation.
Why wouldn’t the agriculture and public health authorities try to work with the dairy to confirm what the problem was, and help it correct any problems? That seems to be the question that comes up more often than it should. And in this situation, the dairy’s owner is quoted as asking the same question, wondering why the authorities wouldn’t want to help her improve her dairy’s safety as opposed to trying to shut her down.
I agree it’s tough to keep seeking dialogue and cooperation when all that happens is you get sand thrown in your face. Yet today there is word that Wisconsin’s head of the Department of Agriculture, Trade and Consumer Protection is sending new peace signals over the continuing confrontation there over raw milk. DATCP’s head, Rod Nilsestuen, announced formation of a “raw milk working group,” which will include twenty academics, public health officials, dairy processors, consumers, and farmers. Among the farmers is Mark Zinniker, whose farm was closed late last year after an outbreak of illness attributed by public health officials to pathogens in his dairy’s raw milk.
What I found interesting was this statement by Nilsestuen, “”We need farms of all sizes and shapes in Wisconsin. I strongly support opportunities for dairy producers to diversify and increase their income, and I strongly support consumer freedom of choice, but they must be informed consumers, and they must be informed producers,” And among the assignments given the working group are these:
“Analyze ways that Wisconsin might allow sale of raw milk.
“Recommend policy, program and/or regulatory recommendations related to retail sales of raw milk.”
It certainly sounds as if he’s stepped in to push DATCP toward some kind of accommodation whereby raw milk sales would be allowed. As positive as this development is, I hope it isn’t used as an excuse to delay legislation progressing through Wisconsin’s legislature to allow direct-from-farm sales of raw milk by Grade A licensed dairies. In yet another sign of a peace overture, Scott Trautman reports having his license to sell meat from his farm, which was suspended last month, just reinstated. It seems clear that the voices of Scott Trautman, Max Kane, and many others who have publicly objected to the crackdown on Wisconsin dairies selling raw milk are being heard.
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Additional encouraging news stemming from the pro-raw-milk rally in Viroqua, WI, last month: Michael Badnarik, the Libertarian Party presidential candidate who suffered a serious heart attack shortly after the rally, is recovering well. He’s reported to be demanding his Blackberry and anxious to leave the hospital so he can catch up on a mountain of email.
any way you cut this news…this is a huge win!!!! Congrats Scott trautman, Mike Badnarick, Mike Schmidt, David Gumpert, Max Kane and everyone else that spoke out in the cold and raised a toast to freedom and raw milk and health on the court house steps.
This is serious progress. Progress I do not have in CA. Embrace this voice from WI it is the voice of reason and progress. There must be a level of respect that is earned. Once earned it is seldom ever needed again. Kind of like the unspoken power of a holstered gun and a big shiny badge.
As far as turning the other cheek and taking an educational and non confrontation approach…I must admit that I play a better bad cop some times than a good cop….but i take my good cop lessons regularly from Mike Schmidt and I am learning as I go.
I can not never forget the tremendous pain of the sneak attacks and the lies and ambushes. I walk quietly and carry a video camera with a huge memory stick and an email list with all of my consumers emails in it….ready to push "send".
That is the theat of pain that gets results. We can play nice afterwards when the pain has made its mark and we can all play nice. Playing nice up front is a way to get ignorred and beat up really bad.
Mark
These clowns are going to have to do quite a bit before intelligent raw milk farmers trust them. They are liars, first and foremost…and we can’t EVER forget this.
Bet money that Big Dairy will attempt to co-opt the good stuff…remember Utah!
Sorry, this Wisconsin farmer does not see this as progress or as a ‘huge win’. I don’t want raw milk sold retail. Why? Because you then must concede authority to the government to regulate you, and I won’t do that. They can set the ‘standards’ artificially high, like they tried to do in CA, or order that you must put in a $200,000 bottling facility, etc. So where does that leave farmers like me who just want to sell a few gallons and get the government out of my hair? Out of luck.
Don’t be fooled. This is either a stall tactic on the raw milk bill (not to go to committee until spring, I hear), or a way to regulate raw milk out of existence (or to create a monopoly by those who will play ball with the gov’t, like in CA). The government is not your friend. Try to find the (corporate $$$) reason behind their actions first, before you declare the war won.
Now many when discussing the issue of pricey food will rightly point out that you save on medical bills. And this is very true and has been true in our life. We are poor farmers, we can’t afford health insurance and are uninsured. But then neither could I afford it when I had a high paying job, too expensive. And neither did I need it, conventional medicine is worthless and insurance won’t pay for alternative treatments that work while still being cheaper.
But what happens when we are all required to buy health insurance? Does that take the steam out of the local food movement? Will we see more people going into foreclosure, going hungry and living in poverty even while on paper they look middle class because between mortgages, insurance, taxes, and licenses all the money goes out the door before a drop comes in for spending on food?
I won’t say that retail raw milk doesn’t have its own set of issues (i.e. stores needing to make sure they keep the milk cold enough so as not to encourage pathogens, etc.), but I think it helps tremendously the spread of the raw milk movement. People who wouldn’t normally be exposed to raw milk will be quicker to see it, wonder about it, do their homework, and buy it. Part and parcel of selling retail, I believe, requires the producer to fully educate the retailer on proper handling/cooling/sale of his/her product – I think that would go a long way in stopping or lessening any problems that might arise with new raw milk consumers who buy it retail. It’s very possible that some producers do that already, I don’t really know, and everyone is different, but seems to me that some kind of education/training would be helpful across the board in any retail establishment in states that allow legal retail raw milk sale, run by, say, some kind of "work group" like we see in MI, and apparently now starting in WI.
I agree 100%. There is no reason why there can not be a different permits for different purposes. Small local on farm sales verses retail sales.
By the way….temperature of the milk has zero to do with pathogens. Pathogens are either in the milk or they are not in the milk. If raw milk gets warm it just sours. The souring actually gives raw milk added protections with increased bacterial activity of the good bacteria and decrease in Ph to acid conditions. This is mostly caused by Lactic acids being produced when lactobacillus eats lactose sugars. temperature control is all about shelf life of fresh milk. it has zero to do with pathogens. Pathogens are result of conditions in the environment ( grain, antibiotics, sterility with use of residual sanitizers like quat, wetness with no sunlight or other pro bad bug conditions ) or the internal ecosystem of the cows gut.
Do not confuse pathogens with cold holding….they are not related at all.
Mark
In regards to turning the other cheek I do not see that as the way how to deal with this situation at all. What I mean is, to be kind in your heart and always open, but demonstrate strength and determination ,that one can not be bulldozed over. Oh no, I have no illusion that a firm stand is needed, I do the same thing. Video camera is mandatory in today’s world. I also believe that no one should get away with blatant lies and cover ups. Unless you show them that you mean what you say, they will try to squash you. You know that better than anybody else.
My inner resolve is, embracing what ever is coming towards you and then transform the negativity into a creative energy , so that in fact you using their energy to empower others.
Wow that sounds may be too much. I have been through that raw mill now for 16 years and learned my lessons one by one. There is progress without much change on the Government side but lots of change on the side of the public. We cannot change government alone. As you said we need all the mothers with their determination to be heard.
Our actions will either attract or turn people away. Once government realizes that there is the critical mass, they have to act or react.
In response to trusting them ,NO why should one trust ,when we know how much money is spent by the corporation to lobby their agenda.
So we need to find that moral strength of non violent resistance, civil disobedience and preparedness to engage anytime in a discussion with the other side.
Another toast of raw milk to all our friends battling the issue UNTIL THE COWS COME FINALLY HOME
I think it would be really great that at retail establishments someone, or more than one employee, even if they choose not to drink raw milk, at least be educated/trained to answer basic consumer questions or refer them elsewhere (like realmilk.com, and others), or even at the most basic, provide educational pamphlets or something that gives the consumer all the information they need to know before purchasing. I think it’s wise. I’m sure that there have been many raw milk drinkers that saw it in Whole Foods or other legal retail establishments that may have purchased prior to doing their homework. I know I’ve done it. I did that at my health food store regarding agave nectar, before I (recently) found out that it’s not as great as claimed to be, and in fact is processed like HFCS. I threw the rest of what I had in the trash when I found out. I’m sure the owners of my local health food store aren’t aware of that either. Education/training in the retail establishment is just plain good business, and smart retail owners are going to have smart customers.
The AMA/medical industry has been making sh** up in the form of illnesses for at least 20 years. People have been drinking raw milk for powers of ten that time.
Get over yourself, Lykke. We do not need you to keep us safe. We are safe already, and we don’t need your kind telling us how "diseased" we are. The human condition has been with us since we have existed. We’re fine, thank you. Go make up things elsewhere.
Like I said….I take my good cop lessons from you. I am always graced by what you say and how you act. You are an inspiration to non violence and humanity every where.
It is forever hard for me to allow great crimes to effect humanity and not tell it like it is. But….I am learning that the greater good comes from education and even more so education of the opposition.
Your words are always insightful and wonderful.
Mark
Licenses to practice medicine, licenses to practice law, sell real estate, put in electricity and plumbing, and..to even cut hair and give manicures!
Devon, why is it only "legal" to sell milk with a license?
To keep people safe, of course! But that, too, is an illusion. A piece of paper, a permission, does not keep you safe, you do. The license you propose I have to sell milk exists in this synthetic free system. I do not exist in the synthetic free system. I reject this synthetic free system that benefits the few at the expense of the many. I do not need their permission. How do I live in a free country if I have to ask their permission?
It is rumored that Rod Nilsteuen of DATCP fame does not have an oath of office and bond on file. This makes every decision of his invalid, and he is liable to return his salary to the state of Wisconsin, based on this fraud. You want to beat DATCP? Then play. Stop this pussyfooting around and calling it victories. And stop asking for the government to protect you when it’s your responsibility to protect you. Be careful what you wish for.
I think the proposed panel in Wisconsin looks great, especially because the members represent a wide variety of stakeholders, and none are "big names" from either side of the debate.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=121884
Pete I agree. There is however a "loophole" in both the Senate and House UNFUNDABLE and UNCONSTITUTIONAL health care bill the loophole "allows" the Amish and Mennonite to opt out for religious reasons. I guess I will start growing a beard and find out where these friends that feed me buy their clothes. I am not looking forward to giving up my SUV and driving a horse and buggy 50 miles one way to buy our food.
There are now 38 million Americans on food stamps but is food stamps a big business with money to be gained. Was a "business licensed" issued to the folks that are refered to in the linked video.
http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=9434
Its unbelievable someone say it AIN’T so!!!
Lola It sounds like Andrew Carnegie was advocating more than one of Karl Marx’s ten commandments. American’s could learn a great deal if they would only listen to the voices from the past because many of these voices have told us the road we are on and what the final destination is!
Is the final destination food safety and the elimination of poverty or have we made a very bad wrong turn?
http://www.alternet.org/food/145079/is_the_fermented_tea_kombucha_really_the_healing_wonder_drink_it%27s_cracked_up_to_be?page=entire
The system is inside our heads.There are no dairy licensing requirements.The buyer is the only one in position to require a license of a seller.I challenge you or anyone else to find the law that cleary requires a license to operate a dairy.If there is no law that authorizes the state to require a license,that means that we are already free to make our own agreements with others.If no one can show us the law,we are free to act as if there is no law requiring a license.
What about the doctor scenario? How do handle the supposed illegality of practicing medicine without a license?
"Dan Russell’s new book on the Drug Wars is so wonderful it is hard to describe. One of the reasons it gave me so much energy was it really reconnected me emotionally with the critical importance of criminalization of essential hungers (drugs, sex, money) to increase profit margins and create franchise control for those who control the enforcement mechanisms within a society. It is a way to turn over control to the most evil; the most violent." Catherine Austin Fitts
How do you change the system? First and foremost, don’t worry about the sheeple. Instead, take Terrance McKenna’s words to heart – "find the others". Find the others who are doing it, challenging it, and winning. Follow their lead. As they succeed, and you succeed, others will follow.
I recently had the privilege of meeting and befriending a very talented pro se. He has been instrumental and inspirational in seeing the system for what it is. He’s challenging it, and schooling me on what the legal system really is. Find the others. If we succeed, I guarantee that others will want to know what it is we’re doing. That’s how you change minds, and free us from the matrix.