The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has suggested on several occasions over the last few years that there are safety issues associated with raw milk cheeses. It has further suggested it wants to lengthen, or do away entirely with the current 60-day aging requirement and just ban raw milk cheese altogether. That would put a big crimp in raw milk distribution and consumption, and presumably hurt producers of raw milk, which often sell significant amounts to artisanal cheese producers. All this, of course, would be in line with the FDA’s express goal of reducing or eliminating raw milk consumption.
The driving force behind the FDA’s offensive, which has taken the form of inspections of well over 100 cheese producers this year, including the shutdown of two that made no one sick, would be expected to be safety. The agency makes a big deal about raw milk consumption being the equivalent of “playing Russian roulette with your health.”
But the FDA has said little about the overall safety of raw milk cheese, and now we are perhaps learning why, and from an unlikely source. The Marler Blog, run by food poisoning lawyer Bill Marler, and frequently an apologist for government crackdowns on raw dairy, has come out with an exhaustive review of the scientific literature around raw milk, and lo and behold, it does more than one might expect to sing the praises of artisanal raw cheese and the small producers behind them.
While scientific in tone and approach, it is very thorough–each of the five parts has 30-40 footnotes–and is enlightening on such matters as the history of the 60-day aging rule for raw cheese, definitions of various types of cheese, the issue of whether pathogens survive in 60-day-aged cheese, and the rules regarding raw cheese in other parts of the world. A few nuggets, and for those who follow this subject, I’d highly recommend reviewing the entire series, which is in a single PDF file.
Soft cheese danger. The main cheese danger comes from soft cheeses, and it appears limited primarily to queso fresco made from conventional unpasteurized milk. “The problem with fresh, soft cheeses is ongoing,” the study says, but even so, deaths are uncommon. “Over the last decade, there have been only two deaths from cheese made with raw milk; both occurred in 2003, and were due to consumption of contaminated fresh (un-aged) queso fresco Mexican-style cheese.” These are the deaths the Centers for Disease Control in its media statements often attributes to raw milk.
Fallout from 60-day aging rule. The 60-day aging requirement was instituted in 1950, based on evidence that few pathogens survive more than that amount of time in cheese. But after listing various sources citing evidence that pathogens can survive more than 60 days, it concludes that “outbreaks and illnesses linked to 60-day aged cheese are relatively rare despite microbiological evidence of pathogen survival in these cheeses.”
European experience. People frequently point out that Europe has a long history with raw milk cheeses, and this series points out there are no aging requirements for cheese in the European Union. It suggests there’s not much of a problem, noting, “The European Union has no aging rule, but their requirements for hygiene during milking, storing, and collection of milk for cheesemaking are likely much stricter than in the US. Additionally, requirements for both animal health and worker/personnel health help ensure safe raw milk cheese production.”
Why so few outbreaks. It cites evidence “that the relative paucity of outbreaks and illnesses associated with 60-day aged cheese may be due to 1) a low contamination level in milk used for cheesemaking or 2) alterations in virulence of pathogens within the cheese matrix…”
Cheese makers get along with regulators. “Unlike fluid raw milk producers who have been the subject of intense conflict with regulators for many years, artisanal and specialty cheesemakers that use raw milk have maintained a relatively good relationship with state and FDA regulators in the US.”
Given all the positives here, kind of makes you wonder what excuse the FDA might offer to lengthen or get rid of the 60-day rule. They’re pretty creative when it comes to saying no, I’m sure they’ll think of something.
***
The timing couldn’t be more curious. On the eve of passage of the Food Safety Modernization Act, we learn from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control that cases of food-borne illness from the most common pathogens have declined 20% over the last ten years.
The legislation will almost certainly be passed and signed by the President because it’s been attached to an ongoing appropriations bill necessary to keep the government running.
Oh well, the people at the CDC and its sister enforcers at the FDA are likely saying, guess we blew that one. We’ll get ’em next time. But what the hell, we needed all the new power we’re getting over food producers anyway, crisis or no crisis.
Here’s what the CDC says in a new press release announcing an update to its original 1999 study–the one that’s been relied on for the last eleven years to scare Americans that there are 76 million cases of foodborne illness each year. “CDC’s FoodNet surveillance system data, which tracks trends among common foodborne pathogens, has documented a decrease of 20 percent in illnesses from key pathogens during the past ten years.” These include the four that most commonly cause problems–salmonella, campylobacter, listeria, and E.coli 0157:H7, the ones that create the cases the product liability lawyers sue over.
As for that estimate of 76 million cases of foodborne illnesses each year–one of the most frequently quoted stats out of the U.S. government–well, that’s been “amended” as well. Now they say there are 48 million, or 37% fewer.
This isn’t a decline, though, in CDC talk. “The difference is largely the result of improvements in the quality and quantity of the data used and new methods used to estimate foodborne-disease. For example, it is now known that most norovirus is not spread by the foodborne route, which has reduced the estimate of foodborne norovirus from 9.2 to approximately 5.5 million cases per year. Because of data and method improvements, the 1999 and current estimates cannot be compared to measure trends.” Well, maybe if the data showed an increase, but certainly not when they show a sharp decrease.
Just one other curiousity. Some 38 million of the estimated 48 million illnesses each year “result from unspecified agents, which include known agents without enough data to make specific estimates, agents not yet recognized as causing foodborne illness, and agents not yet discovered.” Ya gotta love the way these people think, and how they foment fear.
***
Finally, on the subject of government food safety data, Mark McAfee scored a coup of sorts when he coaxed an admission from the CDC that its statements about the safety of pasteurized milk–portrayed as safe under any conditions–aren’t accurate. As the public health authorities know only too well, pasteurized milk can and does sicken people. Take a look at McAfee’s comment on the CDC exchange, with a text of his letter and CDC response, following my previous post.
The revelation of statistical smoke and mirrors, so ironic on the eve of the birth of that child of fear, the new Food Safety Modernization Act, suggests that the sophisticated machinery of case-by-case fear perfected by certain plaintiffs' attorneys, is in reality a telescope through which we all gaze, horror-stricken, seeming to see that the moon is made of green cheese (obviously 🙂 contaminated). This is not, of course, to belittle the illness of anyone struck by food poisoning any more than it is an excuse to put off improving farms and voluntary standards. Fixation on the individual rare case (whether that case is an illness or a sub-standard farm) is not the way to make public policy or law, however.
Glad to see the positives you point out with the cheese discussion. From the paper, it appears that the Europeans embrace regulation and standards, and operate quite differently than here (for example, how Hartmann produced his cheese). And, the link to the American Cheese Society is right on..are you warming up to HACCP and regulators…?
ACS encourages cheesemakers to:
take part in ongoing food safety education
follow a HACCP plan
regularly conduct their own product and environment testing
maintain accurate and up-to-date records
seek third party certification
build relationships with local regulators
It will be interesting to see the final report on the Bravo multi-state outbreak of E. coli O157:H7 from raw milk cheese. I wonder if there is something they could have done differently to prevent it.
One has to wonder if the antiraw milk folks are totally blind never get sick and wonder why or perhaps their ill founded zeal to save us from a cow germ is colored by their love of worthless debt based fiat paper money? THE USA IS NOW 49th ON THE WORLDS LIFE EXPECTANCY LIST!!! Something is very wrong and ITS NOT RAW DAIRY!!!
I don't have a problem with HACCPs, regulators, per se. My problem is when HACCPs misused to disadvantage small enterprises (like small slaughterhouses in 1990s) or regulators misuse their authority for political ends.
You're correct about the American Cheese Society–it has been a very safety minded organization–more than half its cheese producer members have HACCPs, which I wrote about in a recent Grist article. And perhaps that's part of the reason so few showed the presence of pathogens when the FDA over the past year inspected more than 100 of its members. The proof of the pudding will be if they are still allowed to produce raw milk cheese once the FDA is through with its mass inspections of cheesemakers.
http://www.grist.org/article/2010-12-07-has-the-fda-come-up-short-in-its-crackdown-on-small-cheesemakers
As for Bravo, it will be interesting to find out if it was using CAFO milk, or milk intended to be consumed raw (or if that is even addressed in any report). The Marler cheese report makes the point that much of the conventional milk supply is contaminated, suggesting that that's a danger in producing raw milk cheese, but doesn't acknowledge that most of the raw milk used by artisanal cheese producers is obtained from producers who specialize in producing milk intended to be consumed unpasteurized.
David
This is my first time commenting, though I have been a long time reader and often link to your articles over at my blog, fishinthewater.wordpress.com. I write regularly about my journey to eat more whole, local, nutrient rich foods, so of course raw milk is a frequent topic (especially as I live in MD, land of the back door raw milk deals). As my posts are typically a little more colorful, I appreciate having a more objective stance to link to, for readers who are looking for a little more substantial analysis than my own.
I was curious that Bill Marler actually commented on this post (http://fishinthewater.wordpress.com/2010/12/10/more-on-raw-milk/) on my blog the other day, after I linked to his website. There was some discussion among my friends of what this could mean, but it does seem that he strives to present, to the extent possible when you have made up your mind to be on one side or another, as much balanced information as he can. It's a tactic that could be better employed by the raw milk advocates, I sometimes think- I know I am not alone in sometimes getting a little rabid about my defense of raw milk. But if we're to counter the other side, we certainly wouldn't go wrong in using some of their weapons!
Thanks again for writing!
fish in the water
Good point about Bill Marler. Among the food police types, he is more open to discussing "the other side," and he also seems to rely on some capable scientific types to provide info; for example, in addition to this cheese study, he's done a couple of studies about raw milk, pros and cons. He has a highly disparaging side, which can be annoying (he is a lawyer, after all), but you are correct, we can learn from his willingness to at least entertain divergent opinions.
David
When my friends wheelchair-bound mother was alive she loved to shop in our local, small-town department store. The store is quite old, built long before the age of regulations requiring accessibility elements. Its steps and heavy entry doors might have been a barrier, but theyve never been. When my friend arrived pushing her mother along, a clerk or two, or a passer-by, or a shopper, would invariably jump over to hold the door, lift the chair, and generally help bustle them in.
The hubbub at the entry doors was the action of a neighborhood and a community–helpful of course to Mrs. F, but very notably, also helpful and even necessary for the community, to keep its inhabitants bonded together, and to reinforce the reality that we do not live as islands, but need and depend upon each other. Neighborly assistance thus is never an imposition, but enjoyable as giving a gift.
Now what would happen if government stepped in to force its own version of a good outcome at the department store entrance? What if ADA rules and building codes forced the store to remodel with ramps and electric eyes and automatic doors? Believe me, it would be no gift to our neighborhood, or to the Mrs. Fs who live here. All those rules would merely transfer dependence from friends and neighbors to a faceless, distant (and expensive!) bureaucracy. And afterward as the bureaucrats collect their paychecks and the politicians tax us and make hay about what theyve given us, we find ourselves suddenly, strangely, unexpectedly isolated from the people who live and work beside us.
Those of you who see regulation as savior ought to broaden your vision.
Ive been following your blog for sometime. Recently the desire to comment has welled up and I cant set on my hands any longer.
According to USDA stats between 2002 and 2007 there has been an increase of over 63,000 farms of less than 10 cows and under $1,000 in gross sales. This represents only those who chose to comply in filling out the Ag Census. In 2007 Judith McGeary was encouraging people to fill out their Ag Census so our USDUH could better serve the sheeple. How many people are there (like myself) that dont want to be registered and licensed? Now its almost 2011 and how many new small farms are there not complying?
This is really what food safety is all about. The long term Agenda is under severe threat (protectionism) when you have a burgeoning sector of the economy not having to go into debt and not needing a foreign market. As little as ten years ago I couldnt find a local market for my milk unless I was willing to let it go for less than grocery store price. So I pulled the cream off, made butter for myself, and raised milk fed premium priced pork. There is more than one way to cut a fat hog in the ass and eat well in the process! Today its common for fresh milk to sell for anywhere from $5-10 and over per gallon. The connection that health is a direct result of diet has been made and there will be no turning back. The antipathy between country and city exploited by those who add to the cost but nothing to the value is starting to break down much to our benefit.
We now enter into a new era, a definite turning point, of a husbandman being able to properly price his product, ie. Production x Price = Earned Income. The 5 year plan farm program (institutionalized debt) in the1930s regimenting agriculture has been breached. The national emergency declared by Roosevelt in 1933 using der schlecte Wilsons amended War Powers Act of 1917 has never been declared over. Only the president can declare it over. The collapse of farm prices 1929-1933, corn for example dropped from .90 cents to .10 cents/bu. created the chaos that lead to the run on banks. The crisis became so severe that every state governor/legislature asked Washington to act. Roosevelt listening to his bankster advisors was allowed to invoke the rule of necessity. Hence a suspension of the US Constitution to this day except certain lip service that benefits they who drool. Our court system is no longer constitutional but Uniform Commercial Code hence terms like principal and agent in commercial contracts. The rule of necessity allows me to kill when my life is in danger. Does stealing your food put your life in danger? Does forcing you to comply to rules and regulations, paying licensing fees and fines(entering into a signed contract) violate your inalienable rights?
As has been said WE ARE AT WAR. We have been enemy combatants since 1933 when OUR GOVERNMENT declared war against us. Green Beret boy should have/could have been pushed out the driveway by a group formation, nonviolent but organized, and claiming territory one step at a time with him being forced off the property.
In 2007 I alienated my property due to a TB eradication program that the State of Michigan was running that I no longer had any need to comply with. The state was in violation of the Animal Industry Act of 1989, but they got around that by turning it into a federal program. Thats when NAIS and Premises ID started being used and I got pissed. I held them off for about a year and a half and learned a lot about the game of bluff and fear mongering. Sometimes they were on the business end of my game with me calling the shots. My county Sheriff noted after I got done reaming out the assistant co. prosecutor in front of him, with a smile on his face said that the state people are afraid of you. The reason being that earlier I had escorted two state troopers and a pissy regulation agent off my property and then read them the riot act, literally, with the property line between us. Those two troopers were looking down at their shoes, shuffling them in the dirt, apologizing for having to do their job! They had come into my yard that day to try and bluff me into compliance without a warrant.
There is a lot more to this story of course. Ive got a 3:47 professionally edited dvd detailing the highlights of what happened. Especially interesting is when the state did roll in with their warrant in which the sheriff worked with me to turn it into media event. The big bonus was when the TB eradication program director showed up unexpected and got grilled on camera. It was priceless. In the end nothing happened to me. I had been threatened with cost incurred for non-compliance, fines and jail time if I violated quarantine and state regs which were constantly in flux. My cattle were tagged that day with me protesting on camera. I had been warned by Judith McGeary not to do any of this-to leave it to the lawyers and the courts. The fact is legislators came to my farm and were intrigued how I had drawn the issue to their attention. I found out that some of them dont like the corporate power brokering any more than we do.
All this was high profile and frankly I enjoyed it. I did it because I personally needed to learn how to deal with the state nose to nose, that they can be put on the defensive, will start to look for a way out, and will capitulate under the court of public opinion. There can be no compromise- no desire to earn a seat at the table.
Greg Niewendorp
It was absolutely amazing to have several hundred genius GOOGLERS lining up to Milk our OPDC Cow named Betty Sue. Yes….we brought one of our gorgeous organic cows and had GOOGLE emoployees take hand milking lessons for three hours. It was awesome!!!
In a couple of days, video and pictures of the event will be posted at our website. Facebook has gone nuts with people posting pictures of GOOGLE employees milking Betty Sue, taste testing of Raw Milk etc….
There was not one person in the hundreds that either milked the cow or tasted the milk that said that they feared raw milk. This was a young crowd….but they were way cool. These people were open to whole foods and raw milk in general.
Many brought their cameras to catch the event and many also brought a cup to drink raw milk that they had milked themselves!!
I will say one thing…Betty Sue ( she was so very patient and did not go on strike even after being touched by hundreds of strange cold hands ) had never been cleaner as I watched every little thing that happened….like a hawk ( sorry Bill….no new customers ). Our herdsman Teo was there to watch the extremely tolerant Betty Sue, along with our entire marketing and most of our office staff.
Teach teach teach!!! In this case….Google Google Google!!! Squirt Squirt Squirt!!
Mark
This is for Eagle Scout, Dr. Mike Payne DVM at WIFS at UC Davis….
The Girls Scouts OPDC badge earning event was a blast and a joy!
Mark
Click on picture to advance slide show…enjoy:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150107877381181&set=a.434060491180.227149.171911861180&pid=8097042&id=171911861180
Please take a second to see where the future of raw milk is goooooing. The OPDC Google event was an off the charts opportunity to teach and share information. If Goooogle is leading the way and the happiness shown on the faces of these young Gooooglers is any indication…we are in goooood hands.
There are a bunch of wonderful pictures showing the OPDC team, Betty Sue being milked and a really good healthy time being had by all at the GOOGLE campus yesterday.
Merry Christmas everyone. We must bring joy to all in raw milk. The negative part of this ugly fight must be overshadowed by the joy of the reason for the season and little rays of hope for a safe clean raw milk future for all Americans.
Mark
Your enthusiasm for what you do really shines.
All those people and not a parka in sight! Gotta love that, too! 🙂
http://cheeseunderground.blogspot.com/2010/12/big-plans-for-babcock-hall.html
Of course what this article doesn't mention is that Babcock Hall currently uses milk which is produced using rBGH. They distribute their milk, ice cream, and cheese to the students at the University, without ever telling them that the milk is laced with Monsanto GMO hormones.
Also not mentioned in the article is that the Wisconsin Cheesemaker's Association lobbied heavily against the raw milk legislation earlier this year.
The Chair of the Department of Food Science at UW (Scott Rankin) spoke against raw milk during the debate last spring, and is now sitting on the DATCP working group which is finalizing their regulatory recommendation tomorrow (Friday). Also at the UW Dept. of Food Science is Steve Ingham, the former cheif of DATCP food safety who ordered the crackdown on raw milk over a year ago now.
but nowhere can I find the name of the bill.
Is this the bill that had S510 tacked on?
Can I breathe again? Have we really dodged another bullet?
The cloture vote failed in the Senate (so they cannot bring it to a vote yet). It appears the Democrats are going to abandon trying to pass this and concentrate on "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" and the DREAM ACT.
The voting record is here:
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=111&session=1&vote=00096#position
You can see who voted for and against it.
Yes, this is the bill that S 510 was tacked on to and now it appears to be dead for awhile. What a monstrosity this bill/process was (with over 6000 earmarks for Democrats AND Republicans) and over 1900 pages, and a blatant disregard for duty by our Congress to wait until 2 days before the appropriation runs out to bring this up for a vote. It worked last year and I guess they thought they'd sneak it through during the Lame Duck session. Thank GOODNESS they were wrong. The 111th Congress has yet to pass a budget. Good riddance.
Here's another article on the failed omnibus monster:
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/134155-11-trillion-spending-bill-collapses-as-gop-senators-pull-support-at-the-last-minute
Alice
But, the 1900 page bill is the one with the Food Safety and Modernization Act. I'm still looking for the voting record on THIS YEAR'S Omnibus bill. Stay tuned.
Alice
To everything there is a season, and we've still got to see this through. Let's stay with this.
Debbie
http://appropriations.senate.gov/news.cfm?method=news.view&id=9ac3518e-7e19-4328-bf52-16a6c2a1d333
The "Food Safety and Modernization Act" is on page 1685 of the legislation.
Everyone needs to take notes on this example.
Greg took advantage of the relationship with the local sherrif and then created a media spectacle to expose "the untold rest of the story". This is brilliant, ballsy and gutsy. Good work Greg!!
I have been involved with some of this arm twisting public media fulcrum stuff myself. It really does expose the weaknesses of the regulators and creates a new public opinion dynamic that can be used to set the tone for political change ( get laws changed ).
I got a call from Minnesota this morning from a person that did not want to leave his name. I learned alot about things going on there and have this to say about it all.
In Minnesota, during this time of productive protest, a good cop vs. bad cop media content effort could be used very effectively to push progress forward for raw milk.
While the activist protesting moms are risking arrest and gaining public support for the cause….there needs to be a moderate, focused, leadership cadre that meets with the legislature and points to the protest saying….is this what we want…or do we want fairly tested and fairly regulated raw milk just like many other states have??? That is when progress can be made….progress takes the "heat of battle" to create urgency and then….it needs rational intellectual leadership to capitalize on the desparation of the demonstrated peoples unjustice to force the pressures into good change. Heat of battle is almost always a pre-requisite for change….or else why would there be any need for change.
No one in the legislature wants a continued rogue blackmarket and pissed off citizens especially when the citizens are a bunch of moms risking arrest for food.
One more thing….the Hartmans need to embrace looking organized, clean and sanitary. This is important for many reasons. It is hard to support a raw milk producer that does not look clean and sanitary outside as well as inside. New paint, some pots of fresh plants, some fresh concrete poured here and there, some nice new signs posted that talk about positive messages of consumers health and good safe healing food….get rid of all the cobwebs, polish the stainless steel and scrub it all clean. Clean those cows udders and assure that the conditions are good and comfortable for the cows. That is the image that can be supported.
Internally, start doing some testing and be proud of being clean, delicious and safe.
Please do not take any of what I have said here as a judgement about the Hartman operations or the Hartmans level of integrity or true raw milk quality….I have no idea what it truly is. I just know that the elements that create positive or negative opinion are visual on top of true sanitation performance and if Hartman wants to feed people with delicious safe raw milk….it is essential to look hard at yourself first. The rewards are wonderful and fruitful.
Do not go into battle with your house out of order. When the media comes to call, you want to be an example not a spectacle.
Just a thought or two.
Mark
http://www.marlerblog.com/case-news/sally-jackson-raw-milk-cheese-distribution-list-for-e-coli-recall/
cp
There are too many factory farms breeding this virulent pathogen.
Pathogenic E. Coli does not proliferate on a sustainable pasture-based farm the way it does in a CAFO factory farm. But if the sustainable raw dairy is located next to a CAFO, it is next to impossible to keep it off the sustainable farm.
Pathogenic E. Coli is nature's way of telling us we need to stop crowding thousands of cows in a few acres, fed GMO corn and soy grown with tons of chemical inputs and, with massive manure pits and digesters, etc…
In a perfect world there are no CAFO's breeding E. Coli O157:H7 to contaminate their neighbors and pollute the water supplies. But we don't live in a perfect world. CAFOs are everywhere and are destroying our watershed and enviroment, as well as our health and our sustainable family farms.
What better way to combat these monstrosities than to support your local family dairy farmer? Protest the local CAFO's so they don't keep contaminating everything around them!
Mark,I am with you, but I think we are testing for the wrong thing when we test for "pathogens".It is agricultural chemicals, pesticides,and sanitizers that are responsible for illness attributed to food poisoning.We might be very surprised at the levels of these things in our food if we would only have the courage to test for these.The bacteria that manage to gain resistance to these contaminants are the only part of our gut bacteria to survive so they have to take the blame for the illness.The damage done is from the toxins that contaminate our food because of our chemical agriculture.
http://gmwatch.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=11696:cherry-picking-new-report-on-gm-and-pesticides
" GM crops reduced overall pesticide use in the first three years of commercial introduction (1996-1998) by 1.2%, 2.3%, and 2.3% per year, but increased pesticide use by 20% in 2007 and by 27% in 2008.
Two major factors are driving the trend toward an increase in the pounds of herbicides used to control weeds on an acre planted to HT seeds, in comparison to conventional seeds:
*The emergence and rapid spread of weeds resistant to glyphosate, and
*Reductions in the application of herbicides applied on non-GM crop acres."
"There are Eight E. coli O157:H7 illnesses with indistinguishable PFGE patterns in four states"
It is progress to see the word" indistinguishable" used rather than the word "matching".I guess they are telling us that they didn't take the time and trouble to do enough tests that they have any confidence in the results.Like I said above, these tests have told us that something all of these people were exposed to has inhibited many of the normal community of gut bacteria leaving those that are resistant to this toxin to grow in relative numbers.If the public health departments would set standards for the level of chemicals allowed in food and test for the presence of these chemicals,we might learn something about how we can avoid these illnesses in the future.
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/how-can-we-have-a-healthy-economy-if-virtually-everything-we-eat-and-drink-is-constantly-making-us-all-sick
The only problem is that many wont know what cleanliness is on a farm.
Im struck, for example, by the apparent comfort people receive from pictures of cows grazing in two-inch tall grass without a manure plop in sight. That ought to suggest a farm not utilizing its pastures properly, i.e. one of those unbalanced-bacteria breeding grounds Bill Anderson is talking about. Reality here, however, is altered by indoctrination into the lie that healthful food comes from a disinfected environment.
Inspectors and customers need to know this: There is a world of difference between clean and sanitized. Clean suggests health and vitality; sanitized suggests potential illness and weakness. Look for soap and water over bacteriocides, compost and maunure over herbicides, and biodiversity over monoculture. And like Mom (and Mark) would tell you, look for tidiness and organization, which suggests care, concern, and energy.
Author unknown, but worth remembering and teaching!
Clean & Green means RAMP living and alive "smells good clean"… not dead or dying sterile HACCP CAFO "Kill Step" quats sanitary.
Inspectors know this when they can not find listeria in your plant when they find listeria continuously at the PMO NCIMS plant all day long.
Mark
Yes indeed. And what is tptb doing to correct this?
"organically certified food means that it is free of these chemicals,I would like to point out that it is fine to fertilize organically certified fields with conventional CAFO manure."
I thought that "organic" meant no non organic substance used at all? For milk to be organic, the cows must consume organic grasses from organic soils, no chemicals injected to the cows…same for crops, only organic poop from animals fed organic natural foods for them on organic soils..etc. Are you saying this is a fallacy?
What about the 70% of chickens reared at CAFO farms that contain salmonella. These farms are never, ever shut down and TPTB just tell everyone to just "Cook Poultry To a High Internal Temperature and don't ever stuff your roasters". When my husband was 18 he got sick from salmonella and was hospitalized for several days due to CAFO chicken served in his college cafeteria.
I think your energies (and our tax dollars seeing you are probably state/federal regulators) would be better spent going after cleaning up and or shutting down CAFO's and Feedlots.
Kind regards,
Violet
http://www.kilbyridgefarmmaine.blogspot.com
Someone asked for "before and after" photos of the Hartmann dairy. All molecular biology, PFGE, GMO, rBGH aside, are there photos of the changes they made since the investigation? Clearly, no one who went to that farm would buy from them, per know your farmer,unless they made changes in their practices.
It is USDA organic legal to spread CAFO poop on organic soils. Certifiers require an affidavit to attest to no rBST hormones being used at CAFO. But it is legal.
Mark
What makes you think they are the problem? The problem is much deeper, not so simple (wish is was so simple).
CSAs routinely use CAFO dairy manure on their vegetables. It is allowed for organics. The "pathogen people" might be horrified by their disregard about pathogens in dairy manure; at the same time, the hard core organic people might think using such dairy material is wrong. But, generally good meaning CSAs are doing it…using CAFO dairy manure to fertilize.
Then it is NOT organic. It is contaminated with cafo poop and God only knows what else. If that is the law, the term "organic" is certainly "misleading" or should I just call it what it is..a lie. So now I have to ask the "organic" farmer where he gets his poop from and if there are any more disclosures that I need to know for my definition of organic. I am becoming more and more disgusted with the "system'.
While searching for a place to retire, I have been utilizing google earth, it allows me to see where a lot of these cafo's are so that I can avoid them. My daughter was driving south from NJ to Norfolk on Tuesday, even with the temps below freezing, the stench from the chicken houses for tysons and perdue was overwhelming on route 13 south through Maryland and the eastern shore of Va. How do people live around them? That stench along with the polluted ground/ground water must cause illness.
It is known that if you pack people in tight spaces for extended lengths of time and feed them poorly (man-made crap) they become ill, increased viruses/bacteria, poor hygene,etc (flu's, TB etc) It doesn't take a scientist to figure out that cafo's are unhealthy breeding grounds for contamination and the spread of disease.
Someone asked for "before and after" photos of the Hartmann dairy. All molecular biology, PFGE, GMO, rBGH aside, are there photos of the changes they made since putting a child in the hospital?
*******************
That question in itself says a lot…
The largest dealer of organic fertilizers today is a company that has been in the rendering business since the 40's…and now they have an even more lucrative outlet for their renderings…. guaranteed that these animals are CAFO scraps.
Had the pleasure of seeing a talk with an 'organic' cattleman a few years back….he had a certified farm…but what he would do is go to the sale barn and purchase pregnant cows and mark them with the date they were bought…bring them back to his farm and graze them till they calved. If they calved before 90 days the offspring were classified as 'not organic'..if they calved over 90 days they were sold for a premium. The rule states that the last trimester is the only requisite for organic cattle (even though it's the first trimester where organization really occurs..the last trimester is essentially growth) Those pregnant cows could've been in the worst chemical ag farm, being shot with who knows what…but their calves after 90 days are supposedly premium beef…. it's a scam…one withe a certifiers blessing.
Educating consumers about this is key….but it's scary to think that the stuff many have grown to rely on is now bastardized for the sake of corporate profits.
Getting to know your farmers attitude about their agriculture is best…. developing a relationship with a small local producer is really the only way to 'guarantee' a food supply.
Sylvia,
There is no place to hide from the problems CAFOs bring.There is no way to have a separate food supply that is safe from this contamination.I have read that farmers are spraying something like 300 million lbs of Roundup every year on our soil and food plants.This is just one of many toxic chemicals that are sprayed on crops and the soil.
We were talking to one of our neighbors about this problem.We mentioned that a friend had been to a doctor and that tests had shown she had Roundup residues in her body tissues.His response was :"It is no surprise,everyone is spraying Roundup on everything all of the time."The real problem is that as the weedkiller becomes less effective,farmers are applying it at greater strength and more often.Monsanto has also strengthened it's formula by adding other toxins to it.
We must not let the food police blame raw milk for problems caused by Monsanto and huge industrial factory farms which breed these organisms. This isn't to say we should be irresponsible in keeping our milk clean, but the root of the problem has nothing to do with raw milk.
We must put the blame squarely where it belongs — corporate industrial GMO CAFO agri-business.
http://gshackworth.posterous.com/agent-orange-torpedoing-the-blue-water-navy-b
"Vietnam War veterans are a fine lot: they suffered through the War; they suffered the abuse of an ungrateful nation upon their return; they continue to suffer the indignity of an incompetent and antagonistic Department of Veterans Affairs (DVA); and they are the fastest dying group of veterans of any war we've fought. By the end of 2009, only about 30% of all Vietnam War veterans were still alive. At that rate, the last of the Vietnam War veterans will be buried by the surviving soldiers of WWII."
http://www.globalcrisisnews.com/asia/agent-orange-continues-to-devastate-viet-nam/id=1590/
Okay, Lykke . . . . while I do agree with you about the cleanliness of the Hartmann farm pre-inspection . . . . it is hardly in the realm of the FILTH and CROWDING you would see in a typical CAFO environment.
Pigs: http://preview.tinyurl.com/37mh5vz
Chickens: http://foodmuseum.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/chickenfarmingmodern1.jpg
Feedlot Cows: http://preview.tinyurl.com/37gqear
Dairy Cattle: http://preview.tinyurl.com/362ph5d
Yep . . . this is where I want to get my meat and dairy from.
So why are you picking so much on this farm. CAFO's have caused 1000X more illnesses but I think you want to pick on the Hartmann's because they are small potatoes and you can make an example out of them. Let us see how they have cleaned up thier operation?
To all . . . . Organic has been taken over by corporate ag . . . which is one reason I will never pay an organic auditor over 1000 dollars to come on the farm and "DECLARE" our practices organic. I also have the right to give my prized ewes a shot of pennicillin if they develop mastitis which although rare does happen ~ otherwise my ewe dies. Pennicillin is organic IMHO (comes naturally from mold).
Kind regards,
Violet
http://www.kilbyridgefarmmaine.blogspot.com
The term organic is misleading. The regulatory framework in place does not adequately protect organic farm products from chemical and or GMO contamination. Nor does it protect the non GMO farmer from being sued by the company claiming ownership of the technology. It seems to me that the farmer who chooses not to use the above technologies is a slave to those that do.
My status as an organic farmer is compromised by neighboring farmers who chose to use the above technologies with the official blessing of the various government regulatory agencies such as the FDA and department of agricultures etc. How can we in all good conscience trust the integrity of these opportunistic, exploitive carpetbaggers that are put in charge of the health and wellbeing of our nations!!!???
Government officials are merely concerned about the extent to which they can control the industry and any hazardous effects that may result with the use of the above products merely provides them with an opportunity to exercise even greater control. Hence the situation we find ourselves in today.
Ken Conrad
What can be learned from war generations of the past. These lessons sadly are lost and the need of current greed buries those blood paid for lessons
The human condition continues when people fail to remember the lessons of the past and instead follow patriotic and idiotic directions from those that do not send there sons.
War is a profitable sickness. I separate the warrior from the war. I also praise the warrior that refuses to play the pawn in the profit game of the greed based war perpetuators
Mar
Mark
Corporate greed is pervasive. But many Americans are so impervious to it. Right now I'm lamenting the corporatization of UW Madison's Babcock Hall (named after Steven Babcock who developed the Babcock test to determine the butterfat of milk about a century ago).
I suppose you could attribue this "blindness" to the fact that America is a young nation. As a cheese-geek, I recognize that our cheese traditions do not have the depth that European cheese traditions have. ("Fresh cheddar cheese curds" just aren't the same as a fromage blanc, or better yet a simple brie or camembert.)
That being said, it is very unfortunate the way that this continent was colonized by Europeans — by virtually wiping out the natives. I am sure there is much traditional knowledge Native Americans carried, which has been totally lost to history, because of this unfortunate legacy of colonialism and imperialism.
p.s. speaking of Dow Chemical, Madison, WI was a hotbed of protest against Dow Chemical during the 60's and 70's, which had a chemical factory in Madison.
One of the most interesting documents to come out of DATCP's raw milk working group shows how Wisconsin is truly the last shining beacon of the widespread family dairy farm. Second only to CA in total milk production, but first in the number of farms (with an average herd size of only 74). However, the state of commodity dairy markets, and looming threat of CAFO expansions today threatens the future of the family dairy farm in a very real way.
Perhaps Madison, WI can become a hotbed of protest against industrial corporate agriculture in today's age. Madison is certainly a "foodie" city which takes its local food very seriously.
morals and ethics are what's lacking and gread has rushed into the void and has destroyed the world.
can't be fixed either… gotta collapse and burn. hard times foster morals and ethics and stiffle gread. no way to go back. gotta start over.
how one cleans up a farm after "putting a child in the hospital".
It's deeply, deeply revealing to me because it says something indirectly that she most likely would never come out say – she apparently believes, on some level, that there IS no cleaning up after an incident.
It's highlighting another aspect, (along with greed and power run amok) in which I think our society/culture is going wonky.
Do you all remember the Toyota recall for uncontrollable acceleration? During that time, I rread a news story about a man who was serving a jail sentence because his Toyota had accelerated and caused a tragic accident. Only it happened before the recall, and people could not believe the "car out of control" story. Luckily the recall vindicated him before he had to serve his whole sentence.
The part that upset me most when I heard his story was when I learned he had been convicted of HOMICIDE for that accident. I had never heard of such a ridiculous notion. This man was not drinking, there was no reason to believe he
knew or had a problem with the occupants of the other car. He even had his own family in the car with him. Believing or not believing the sticking gas pedal explanation aside, there wasn't evidence to show this was anything but an
accident. So what ever happened to manslaughter? Homicide charges for an accident are, to me, really trumped up.
Certainly the families of those who were killed were devastated, and we empathize with them. But to what point?
Why are we jailing the person who is "at fault" for an honest accident?
Unfortunately, hearing his story got me paying attention. More and more, I'm hearing about this happening – people are being charged with homicide for car accidents where none of the usual negligence is involved – like driving under the influence or with without a license.
So how does this relate to Lykke's comment and raw milk?
In the comments of another blog, I read Mary Martin's story for the first time, and one of her quotes stood out as very telling, also. She wrote about farmer's POISONING their customers. I understand that pathogens in food is called food poisoning and in one sense her sentence was correct. But it was not the common way we discuss this issue. When we say it that way, that a person poisoned someone, some intent to harm is implied.
Like the difference between manslaughter and homicide, food producers are quickly facing a situation where there is no allowance for the accidental appearance of pathogens in food. You can do everything right, be clean, no negligence indicated, and still our legal system will come after you as you committed a willful act to harm others.
The families of someone killed in a car wreck, the families of those who are sickened by pathogens in food, all of these folks are becoming more and more vindictive. It's certainly lucrative to do so, thanks to the Marler's of the world. But why is the rest of our society going along with this? Why are we not demanding proof of negligence in the case of an accident?
Knowing this, how much would you trust the research from SDSU?
And my guess is that it is not unusual as ag colleges go.
The fellow's name is Chiccoine, you can check it out. Don't know how to provide a link.
Oh, and the fellow from their Dairy Dept? He offered a workshop called 'creative compensation' for dairy workers. Hmmmm.
Joelie
There is a term for this (that escapes my mind at this time), it happens often in human nature. People just don't believe atrocities/bad things can happen until it actually does, and even then for many it is hard to mentally accept.
"Why are we not demanding proof of negligence in the case of an accident? "
So much for innocent until proven guilty.
In BC all raw milk is deemed by law to be always and only teeming with pathogens, in the first instance. No evidence necessary
In one generation, I 've seen our justice system go from the British understanding, predicated in the Protestant ethic of the Bible, to the Napoleonic system, predicated in Roman Catholicism : one is presumed guilty until he can disprove an allegation. More and more we are seeing obvious bribes to undo a false allegation.
So far we've spent $10,000 in legal fees ; now looking at a quarter of a million $ on the way to the Supreme Court of Canada, challenging a law which is patently absurd on its face
"Why are we not demanding proof of negligence in the case of an accident?"
You seem to be suggesting that foodborne illnesses are random occurrences that can't be prevented. I disagree and think most are preventable. The raw dairy illnesses have a common denominator: poor sanitation.
I feel badly for the family wrapped up in the new E. coli O157:H7 outbreak linked to their raw milk cheese, but cruise through the health inspection reports posted on the Marler Blog – clearly there was negligence?
http://www.marlerblog.com/case-news/sally-jackson-raw-milk-cheese-distribution-list-for-e-coli-recall/
And, not to leave you hanging…I do think a farm can be "cleaned-up." There are best practices that can be used to minimize the risk of contamination.
"You seem to be suggesting that foodborne illnesses are random occurrences that can't be prevented. I disagree and think most are preventable."
I understand that you disagree. But the science regarding food borne pathogens shows that we rarely nail down the precise vectors so your contention that "most" are preventable is speculation.
What I am saying is despite our best efforts at sanitation, these pathogens can and will still show up.
We should just presume that all assholes are contaminated with e coli. . Therefore, every farm or food facility that has humans with assholes, should also be presumed to have e coli. Human factors, such a rushed hand washing, will never be completely eliminated. No matter how clean a facility is, the potential for an accident is always present.
I read recently that the current rate of FDA inspections of various facilities is something like once every 10 years. If that's the case, we can't possibly know how many of those places have listeria in the drains on any given day. . E coli could be on the counter one moment, and cleaned away the next. But as long as we are all carrying around e. coli with us, it is pretty much insane to scapegoat one individual as culpable when reasonable precautions are taken.
I wonder how many of the photos taken of the Hartmann farm really show potential vectors for e coli. Was it really in the dust in the rafters? If the answer is no, then one has to wonder why the dusty rafters were photographed as a problem. If the answer is yes, then we have to ask how much dust does it take to bring e coli? If it can be found in 3 inches of dust, can it be found in .1 micron of dust? What facilities out there have the ability to completely eliminate dust? If e coi can come in dust, then we certainly have to consider that some of the occurences of it would appear to be random.
"The GI tract of most warm-blooded animals is colonized by E. coli within hours or a few days after birth. The bacterium is ingested in foods or water or obtained directly from other individuals handling the infant. The human bowel is usually colonized within 40 hours of birth. E. coli can adhere to the mucus overlying the large intestine. Once established, an E. coli strain may persist for months or years. " 2008 Kenneth Todar, PhD
http://www.textbookofbacteriology.net/e.coli.html