The campylobacter outbreak in Michigan and possibly other states affecting Family Farms Co-op just keeps getting worse and worse. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has put out an alert saying that 12 people have been confirmed ill from campylobacter “associated with raw milk.”
And today, the Family Farms Co-op announced that its supplier, Forest Grove Dairy of Indiana, is halting distribution. “Forest Grove Dairy has experienced increasing pressure from FDA over the past week, and notwithstanding the private nature of our herd lease and share arrangement, these pressures embody serious risks,” Family Farms Co-op said in an email to its members. The effect is to leave more than 250 families without their regular supply of raw milk.
My sense is that the FDA and state agencies may be correct in terms of illnesses associated with raw milk. In fact, there may well be many more illnesses to come out of this outbreak before all is said and done. Whether this justifies pressuring a dairy to discontinue raw milk production, even after testing has shown the milk to be free of pathogens, is another question. As the Family Farms Co-op stated in its email to members: “The authority which FDA asserts over raw milk and raw milk products between states is set forth at 21 Code of Federal Regulations 1240.61. This rule must be eliminated to remove the federal government from its interference in our food choices. Our new job is to support the removal of this regulation.”
Now, before all you folks in public health start jumping up and down with glee over your “victory” in your war on raw milk and food rights, you may want to hear from some of the victims of this outbreak.
I’ve had the opportunity to speak with members of two families sickened, and not yet reported in the statistics. They aren’t reported, largely because they’ve held back in fully cooperating with government officials in this situation. I learned about them from an official of the Weston A. Price Foundation, so understand that even though the sickened individuals are critical of the organization, it was that organization that agreed to help tell their story.
These individuals agreed to speak with me under strict conditions–that I not reveal their identities, or even where they live in the Midwest. That’s because they are afraid.
How to understand what’s happening with them? Imagine, you are sick, your children are sick, with diarrhea, vomiting, fever. You’re certain you got sick from raw milk because you’ve been speaking with half a dozen other families whose members are similarly sick, and the only commonality in all your illnesses is your consumption of raw milk. But beyond worrying about when everyone in the family is going to get better, you are afraid of other things.
— You are afraid to tell the professionals in your life–your doctor, the hospital emergency room personnel, your children’s teachers–too much because you worry those professionals will inform the government enforcers, who will not only go after the farmer who supplied you with the milk, but other raw dairy producers as well, with a vengeance.
— You are afraid of being viewed as an outcast among your friends at the Weston A. Price Foundation, since it so strongly suggests people don’t get sick from raw milk, and here you went and got sick.
— You are afraid to say anything to your non-raw-milk-drinking friends, since they’ll likely be judgmental, to the effect, “That’s what you get for drinking unpasteurized milk.”
— You are afraid your trust in the farmer who produced the milk was misplaced, yet you still worry the farmer will be forced out of business.
— You are afraid you won’t find a new trusted source for raw milk, and that all the health benefits you were seeing before the outbreak will be forever gone.
As one father of three children who have been sickened said to me last evening: “You’ve got the people who don’t believe in (raw milk). You’ve got those people who are so into it who are going to condemn you as well. It’s not that we wouldn’t believe in raw milk going forward. But you can’t be gullible. The reality is you can get sick if it’s not treated right. This can happen. it’s not foolproof.”
He, his wife, and the children first became ill Feb. 24, and shortly thereafter. He got better after five days (without being tested for pathogens), she after 14 days (and testing positive for campylobacter), but the children have been sick on and off for a month. They have missed enough school that the teachers have begun asking questions about what’s going on. The parents finally had the children tested a few days ago, and when the tests came back positive for campylobacter Saturday, the children went on antibiotics.
At first, neither husband nor wife could believe it was the milk, since they had been drinking it for three years without problems. Their confidence was also based on the contention from some in the Weston A. Price Foundation that it’s nearly impossible to get sick from the milk of pasture-fed cows. “I believed in that stuff,” the wife says. “It’s almost like a cult.”
Clearly, the parents are upset, and not knowing whom to blame. They wonder if Forest Grove Dairy was increasing its production beyond its capability for quality control, as ever more people joined cowshares and demanded milk. They wonder if the manager of their co-op was withholding important information on illnesses when the outbreaks started. And they wonder what they’ll do to replace their raw milk supply.
“The first couple of years, we got tons of benefits” from the milk–their three young children experienced fewer illnesses. “We’ve seen a lot of health benefits…but when you get sick for a month, it all changes.”
Part of their confusion extends to dealing with public health authorities, who have begun making inquiries, following up on a call the wife made to report her campylobacter diagnosis. She’s backed off, refusing to supply information, such as the name of her and her children’s doctor. “They began pushing too hard,” she says.
A second cowshare member, a mother of two, who says her five-year-old daughter has been sick, but that she and her young son have not, has held off on having the girl tested. “A lot of people don’t want the government knowing,” she says. “I’m the same way–the less they know, the better.”
She has become nearly as cynical about the Weston A. Price Foundation, of which she is a member. “Unfortunately, they are not going to believe” that she and others got sick from raw milk. One official already “told me it’s probably from another source.” And outsiders would never understand, she said.She’d like to see the organization offering advice to sickened individuals on how to handle the illnesses in a natural way.
“Now we’re the freaks. We’re in the middle of these groups.”
She adds, “I would like to go back to drinking raw milk. For me, it seems like we don’t get sick like we used to.” Until now, of course.
This whole situation obviously hasn’t fully played out. But right now, it looks like a sad story–sad because of the illnesses, and sad because of the well placed mistrust ordinary people have about the motives of the medical and public health communities, as well as of the Weston A. Price Foundation. Not to mention that a viable raw dairy may be put out of business.
We should all be sad that ordinary citizens are so suspicious and alienated that they don’t feel comfortable trusting America’s accomplished public health community with information to potentially protect the public health…because they fear that the public health professionals have become something more akin to police agents. Raw milk, as we know, is a proxy issue for other issues, and mistrust of government involvement in our lives is spreading rapidly.
Imagine if the medical/public health communities could actually cooperate with raw milk supporters, with the idea of figuring out what might have gone wrong at the Indiana dairy, and making it right…and providing lessons to other raw dairies. It seems like the Family Farms Co-op has tried to be open and honest about the situation, but that openness isn’t being reciprocated by either the FDA or local public health authorities.
I fear that there are too many parties with too many agendas to turn this situation into a positive learning experience, rather than just another case of told-you-sos and recriminations. Maybe, just maybe, this time can be different.
David your statement above about cooperation to a better understanding of what really happened is welcomed, but FDA has bigger fish to fry with this situation and food bourne illness just got them into the door.
I have never proposed that grass cures all ills as it relates to our raw milk dairy herds, and even mentioned that fact in the Raw Milk Handbook.
It does go a long way to teaching producers the needs of a cow and the needs of the biology that supports her.
However, the Dairy Industry in which all raw milk cows are judged against, has reams of studies placing campylobactor within the cows/dairy processors Universities and Veternairians have used to study and understand milk cows better.
None have asked how it got there.
Just like Johnes and Luekosis, just another thing to manage, not understand the detrimental effects of its presence and possble operating proceedures that allowed it to happen.
It just is..no money in finding out why, just add the kill step.
However there is value in understanding what happend with Dee Creek, The Alexanders, The Zinnikers, and now Forrest Grove Dairy.
Raw milk producers have the ability and the responsibility, to learn from these situations and create the paper trail as to why these things happen and how to avoid them and share that information not only with the co-producers of our raw milk herds but the dairy industry as a whole.
We are now just learning the proper way to feed grass to cows and its ability to meet the needs of the animal, not compromise the cow in order to meet the emotional needs of the consumer.
So we as a community need to pull together to understand this limiting factor and pitch in monitarily to do so.
The farmers cannot do it on thier own, and will need our help.
Does this mean a cost increase in your milk? maybe….does this mean you have to come to a better understanding of what it really takes to produce your milk and the riskes every raw milk producer has taking in your name….yes it does.
To demand the opinion without the support of credible evidence that grass fed raw milk is inherently safe…is no better than demanding the opinion that all raw milk is inherently dangerous.
So here we are again at polar opposites.
Another raw milk dairy is out of business.
Many families have no idea where this weeks milk is coming from…the rest of us are wondering how long our supply is going to last.
How long will we wait to begin the process to understand that our convictions need to be supported by our actions.
We can learn from this if everyone begins to work together and drop all pretenses, and understand nothing is 100%.
But we can go along way to understanding how we are to create this product and make it as safe as possible, that will only happen if the effort of all of us is brought to this issue.
We have ideas of how this is happening, we have history, they are being challanged right now…which may not be a bad thing.
Tim Wightman.
In states where the regulators fail to establish good standards and constantly attempt to create failure…then failure is what you will get more often than not.
This is clearly showing quite graphically…. the disconnect that real Americans have with biodoversity. Our American immune systems really suck!!!
This immune failure is now being celebrated and paraded arround as an "I told you so" example by the consortium that wants raw milk gone.
Bottom line guys….we need to set some very tough volentary standards for raw milk in the USA if the states refuse to do it. We must do it…Colorado did it…
If we do not set these standards and follow them…raw milk will continue to be the butt end of the FDA "I told you so" Russian Roulette anti-raw milk battle plan.
The PMO standards are for pasteurized milk….if dairymen continue to think that raw milk is just raw milk….we will continue to have this challenge.
If a raw milk dairyman wants to do raw milk…they must take it seriously.
What the cows eat, where they sleep, the sunshine….keeping them dry etc….how they are milked. I am obsolutely sure that all raw milk dairymen want to do well….but I do not think that it is seriously intrenched into a new psychology.
I recently visited an organic dairy in CA and found that although they were seasonally grass fed….the cows in reality were kept in tight confinement all winter long and it was dark, manure filled and wet. It was not pretty and the cows were very dirty. The grass outside was beautifull…..but no cows could access one blade of it.
These are the conditions and feeds that create stress and Campylobacter.
Mankind may think that they can fool the organic inspector….but you can not fool biology or mother nature or cow cleaniless or cow comfort.
If mankind intends to produce raw milk….mankind must make a pact with mother nature and stop trying to trick and cheat her….trying to fake it does not work and the not so funny joke ends up being told on Mankind.
Clean and green….clean udders and green pastures with the right kind of bacteria on the teats….
You can not use PMO standards to product raw milk for People!!!!!
This sorting out will continue…..standards, serious testing and inspections will be part of the future. A free-for-all does not work. Human nature has shown this to be oh so true.
These words are not intended as put downs….they are intended to be a wake up call. Pay attention and change your relationship with mother nature or get your butt kicked.
Raw milk is pure Darwinism at all points in the food chain. The PMO excuses responsibilty and respect for mother nature…..basically everything in the foodchain and for this, the farmer goes bankrupt and the consumer is malnourished and immune depressed.
Raw milk production requires a keen understanding and appreciation for mother nature. You must work with her….The old PMO rules allow the farmer to break every rule in natures book.
Mark
Mark, the irony of your statement; youre now the king of raw milk safety standards? Give it a break. I actually agree with many things you wrote, but coming from you makes me laugh. I wonder if you will ever admit that your outsourcing practices almost killed two children.
Note # 4 & 5 of Bill Marlers raw milk safety practices. Im sure these were aimed at you. In fact, as I read through them, they all apply to you.
1. Raw milk should be sold only on farms that are certified by the state and inspected and tested regularly. Make ambiguous black market milk/cheese sales and "pet food sales" meant for human consumption clearly illegal;
2. Raw milk should not be sold in grocery stores or across state lines–the risks of mass production and transportation are too great; the risk of a casual purchase by someone misunderstanding the risks is too great, as well;
3. Farms should be required to have insurance coverage sufficient to cover reasonable damages to their customers;
4. Practices such as outsourcing (buying raw milk from farms not licensed for raw milk production) should be illegal;
5. Colostrum should be regulated as a dairy product, not a nutritional supplement;
6. Warning signs on the bottles and at point-of-purchase should be mandatory. An example: "WARNING: This product has not been pasteurized and may contain harmful bacteria (not limited to E. coli O157:H7, Campylobacter, Listeria and Salmonella). Pregnant women, infants, children, the elderly and persons with lowered resistance to disease (immune compromised) have the highest risk of harm, which includes Diarrhea, Vomiting, Fever, Dehydration, Hemolytic Uremic Syndrome, Guillain-Barre Syndrome, Reactive Arthritis, Irritable Bowel Syndrome, Miscarriage, or Death, from use of this product."
My biggest concern for both of your comments is cow health does not start when the cow hits grass and then we have control….
The old phrase…kiss one person kiss a thousand!!! same holds true for cows.
To produce safe raw milk the history of the herd our raw milk cows come from must be assesed and its relation to the conventional dairy herd must be adressed to understand the carry over of these nasty things our great dairy industry has left us.
We do not know the generational time frame before pathogens no longer exsist in a herd that has been cared for properly…we in most cases do not know how to treat cows properly which means all the more reason to make sure one starts out clean.
I have felt, and now am becoming to realize that the chain of the closed herd was broken in all of these cases and residual contaminantes were intoduced to what was once a clean farm, or what was once thought to be a clean farm.
All animals must have this scrutiny before brought onto the raw milk farm…chickens, geese, ect ect, given we have the known exsistance in the general flocks and herds..organic/biodynamic or not.
If a raw milk farm must diversify to create positive economic viability then the cost of the milk or boarding fee to cover the production cost is not enough and here is the price we are really paying instead of the higher cost of obtaining milk…..sound familair?
A lot of mainstream consumer ideology has been brought to the farm which is putting pressure against a system that was born to counter the ill effects of that consumer system.
Raw milk producers must also know their source and not just trust that once home everything will be fine…meeting the demand of an impatient cheap minded consumer is the other half of this equation.
Truth be known and as a raw milk producer I can tell you that most people in this country are only paying half of what they should be for raw milk to allow the raw milk producer the ability to remineralize the soil, maintain the health of their herds, and maintain a decent living.
In most cases decisions are made to fit the current price structure which is wholey inadequite for the reason listed above.
It is not easy to find these closed herds…..but it is essential we do so to keep the clean chain going…and monitor the cross species contamination the "new diverse farm" has in our current animal environment….of which we still depend on because it is the most cost effective.
I realize my words may be a bit harsh to the concerned faithful consumer…but guess what…this is what State side has been saying for years now.
Welcome to the reality of how broken our food system really is, so broken it is affecting those determined to change it.
So if we want to change the raw milk system it is within our power to do so…applying the cheap food paradigm will not and has not worked.
Looking for the best deal has its hidden costs..for the farmer and the consumer, and the very web we depend on.
Tim Wightman
Thanks, Tim, for bringing some clarity back into the game.
"Cheap is the most expensive you can buy."
Think about it.
BH
http://www.JuicyMaters.com
So what will prevail in the end, our natural rights or the Overton Window of Political Possibilities? I agree with Eleanor Roosevelt, "a right is not something that somebody gives you; it is something that nobody can take away".
I am thankful and consider myself fortunate to have been able lived on the farm for the last 59 years with an ample supply of fresh, unregulated, uninspected raw milk. I and my family and friends are a living contradiction to the germ theory and those who would have us believe that raw unpasteurized milk is unsafe.
Ken Conrad
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304370304575151663770115120.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsFifth
I was given some Guernsey raw milk last month, it was like ice cream that was melting, pure heaven. Much different than Op or Claravale milk.
Campylobacter is found in the intestines of wild/domestic animals. The bacteria is passed in their feces, which can infect people via contaminated food: meats (especially chicken), water taken from contaminated sources (streams or rivers near where animals graze). It can also be transmitted person to person when people don’t wash their hands after toileting/diaper changing.
cp
Where in the heck did you get the idea that 2006 illnesses had anything to do with outsourced raw milk.
Let me say this again….never ever has any raw milk from any other dairy ever been bottled and sold from OPDC. All purchased raw milk was made into raw butter or cheese.
This is not illegal and if you can remember….the kids were supposedly made sick by OPDC raw milk during the height of the spinach crisis. Both kids medical records and histories show consumption of spinach. We find out now that it was skim milk not whole raw milk.
I continue to make the argument that not one shred of evidence connects OPDC’s products to any illnesses. All products were tested and none showed a pathogen. The kids did not even have the same pathogens in their fecal samples. No cows showed the same genetic finger print either….just because the state of CA wrote a letter suggesting a raw milk link does not make it so….The State of CA hates raw milk and so does every author that signed the letter from the state of CA investigation. The letter from the state of CA did not meet the legal standard for use in a court of law. The letter "did not create causation"….it was epidemiologic evidence only and could not be used in court to prove anything.
CP, can you not leave this alone…it is a very old and very dead and very settled issue.
What really is rediculous is the FDA statement in the Wall Street Journal article claiming that raw butter is somehow dangerous….in CA raw butter is so un-dangerous that the state does not even test it for pathogens.The state says openenly that raw butter does not grow pathogens because of its water concentration and ph…not to mention other fatty acids that effectively kill and inhibit pathogens. Pathogens need sugar and raw butter has literally none.
The FDA is a bunch of liers…..flat out paid liers….liers every one. They even flat out deny and lie about the science. Hey Sheehan… you must call Dr. Beam at CDFA and get a short course on pathogens and raw butter because you are starting to embarrass yourself and your agency.
Mark
Tim W. and others – go forward. You have silent supporters in this crazy world of regulators, but we will find a way to connect and do a better job for raw milk farmers and consumers alike.
Bye for now.
Tim how long should a new cow be quarantined before you can let her join the herd? Or maybe a better question is how long does it take to build anitbodies to campylobacter? I know some of our producers cull cows that aren’t up to snuff, and it’s hard to find replacement cows from an organic herd. I wonder if they test to see if she’s shedding pathogens in manure before they start distributing milk.
As Tim says, keep a closed herd or know your source of cows – you can’t just turn them out to pasture and start milking if they’ve been raised in a CAFO. Some of them don’t even know how to graze….
I can’t understand the "WAPF intimidation" expressed by the people who got sick. I’ve always understood WAPF’s mantra as "Know Your Source". They certainly taught me to ask a lot of questions. I’ve been in the WAPF network a long time, and I never got the idea they were cavalier about finding a good source – about ANY food.
A responsible herdshare owner should ask about the feed and care of the herd. Agisters should send out newsletters that include test results – including herd health information – on a regular basis. The root cause of 96% of all problems is communication.
I’ve advised farmers to question potential buyers – if they sound like a germophobe, my instinct would be to tell them I’m plumb out of milk right now. There are some really leaky guts out there….and they tend to be trigger-happy about lawsuits. Squeamish gut, squeamish mind.
Small comfort to those who got sick, but there is some evidence that suggests you’ll only get Campy once – a healthy immune system builds antibodies to fight it. Ironically, drinking raw milk can also establish immunity to Campy. But this apparently depends on a healthy immune system, and regular consumption.
I’d go on about how kefir kills campy, as does raw garlic, but I’m too tired to look up references.
-Blair
My first concern is the idea of managing Campylobactor…..like we have no choice than to manage it.
This possibility has not yet been proven, neither has the absolute absence in any cow.
One raw milk producer I know had 14 out of 28 test positive for campy in the manure.
No presence found in the milk so we still have a ways to go in understanding it.
It is my greatest fear that we have somehow for 12 years had a with hold time by shear luck, and that the raw milk had time to clear itself of campy before consumption.
As we increased producers and stressed production capabilities the time frame reported by Ron Hull was removed and we see those results taking hold.
Coupled with a lack of meeting the needs of the cow and introducing a form of stress, campy may lay dorment untill that stress appears, and we see the result.
Constant insult from other species does not help.
Probiotics would go along way in changing the environment of the rumen/gut to the good guys, but no amount of probiotics will replace a cronicly stressed system, or provide the crutches most have come to depend on.
I have read studies on feed intake verses utilization as it relates to probiotic use.
It actually helps animals utilize more feed…..but we know that we drink probiotics everyday.
A side bar of the study was human pathogens in animal digestion systems and its affect on feed utilization.
Unrelated to the study but very good information just the same was as probiotic use was increased to make more money by greater feed effeciency( to a point one cannot extend the effeciency indefinitaly just with probiotics) the incidence of human pathogens such as salmonella, campylobactor, E-coli-157H7 was dropped or eliminated beyond measurable levels.
However a balanced diet was also key in this equation forcing too much of anything in the ration and probitoics will be swamped and die off, enter crutch theory.
As for knowing your source. We have a situation here that I would guess, and I do not know for sure, most if not all co-producers of the Family Farm Co-op never met the cows who were feeding them.
This is not a ideal situation and is a carry over of the consumer system to meet the demands of a consumer by mutiple entities which removes that consumer from meeting the producer, and vice versa.
I am not saying that corners were cut on purpose with Family Farms Co-op, but when volumes increase and food becomes work and trade, commonality and repetition can replace responsibility.
Seeing the actual faces who’s lives you are holding in your hands does sober one up and will come to mind when facing decisions.
Most farmers do not want that contact and prefer the gap between thier practices and the final consumer.
Raw milk producers have closed that gap and have taken on that responsibility and now need the information to allow them to continue their chosen place in our society……..not force them into uncomfortable choices based on demand and ignorance.
The truth is out there, and it will take some time to understand it.
Meanwhile we have principals to follow, and follow to the T as to reduce our chance of this happening again.
Meet the need of the cows not the emotional needs of the consumers.
Know where you cows come from and how many years they have been away completely from the common organic OR conventional herds, yes organic in most cases just as bad for infection as conventional..sorry but true.
Ask questions of the origins of the cows in question and test regularly for pathogens and milk components.
Do bulk tank cultures.
And realize our introduction to information will alter the learning curve, and we are surrounded by slow processes, it is only we humans that want to speed it up.
Tim Wightman
I’d like to add that managing Campylobacter is also an issue with small ruminant producers. Campylobacter is known to cause abortions in sheep and goats. Recently there was a discussion among the American Association of Small Ruminant Practitioners who used a Campylobacter vaccine (Colorado Serum Campylobacter vaccine-USDA licensed) that was effective in stopping Campylobacter induced abortions. (Another vaccine is produced by Hygeia-but I am not certain it is licensed).
I realize that vaccination type strategies do not address hygiene or environmental issues, and there is opposition among some producers and consumers to use; but if one has animals that are carriers or reservoirs perhaps this is an additional management tool. To draw an analogy, despite my quarantining new arrivals for weeks before we closed our dairy goat herd- coupled with initial aggressive worming and rotational grazing,-I still have a few animals that tolerate and carry a burden of Haemonchus and Ostertagia worms. I can control the worm burden by selective management of these animals-since we need a low worm burden to promote immunity. Can the same be true of cattle in regard to some pathogens?
Thus could management encompass all of what Tim has emphasized and possibly some medical intervention to further knock down infectivity?
And, I have visited Forest Grove Dairy met the people (delightful and responsible) and met the cows. It is a very clean and well managed operation.
Ron
His proposal however for maintaining a closed herd to so called harmful organisms is impractical and would inevitably usher in unwelcome, disruptive and narrow minded regulatory protocol. Their is a dozen or more deer as well as moose, ducks, geese, sand hill cranes, sea gulls, crows, ravens, coyotes, foxes, raccoons, skunks, etc. that regularly visit, feed and defecate on surrounding pastures of various farms on an ongoing basis. No herd can be considered a closed herd nor should it be. Regular exposure as well as the adoption of organic practices is imperative in order to maintain a healthy herd that is not vulnerable to illness.
Establishing a generational time frame would be of value in order to understand the organisms genealogical progression. This would indeed help us better understand its resilient nature.
Optimum food safety IMO can only be achieved via moderation, diversity and respect for what is natural. Our current system is exactly the opposite for it is excessive, extremely specialized and demonstrates an antagonistic disrespect as well as an intent desire to rule over what is natural.
Ken Conrad
A high worm count is a reflection of a compromised immune system.
As a cattle producer with personal experience going from conventional to organic practices the best way to encourage a low worm count is to promote immunity first. I was able to accomplish this by eliminating all toxic interventions such as vaccines, systemic as well as injectable organophosphate pesticides and antibiotics. I also believe that eliminating prepared molasses/corn syrup based ration and reducing their high grain intake helped immensely in this regard as well.
I have used none of the above for the last 28 years and the cattle are healthy with no sign of worms.
Ken
I do not know about your outsourcing, but I do know that OP was the source of the 2006 E. coli outbreak. I know that the outsourcing, and other issues have been around for awhile:
http://www.marlerblog.com/2008/04/articles/legal-cases/organic-pastures-where-there-is-smoke-there-is-fire/
However, our constant denials of what happened in 2006 made me re-write a bit of Shakespeare:
The (raw milk farmer) doth protest too much, methinks.
Hamlet Act 3, scene 2, 222230
Mark, I know you read this, but read it again:
http://www.marlerblog.com/2009/03/articles/lawyer-oped/organic-pastures-dairy-e-coli-o157h7-raw-milk-product-outbreak-2006/
Download and read the document – how many experts lay the 2006 outbreak on your doorstep? It is time to admit what happened, learn from it and move on. To lay blame on the State of Californias (it does allow you to mass produce raw milk) investigation is silly. Stop making excuses.
Bill
Not to hammer home the point to hard:
FDA CDFA press release pertaining to 2007 recall of cream with listeria
http://www.fda.gov/Safety/Recalls/ArchiveRecalls/2007/ucm112271.htm
http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/egov/Press_Releases/Press_Release.asp?PRnum=07-068
Organic Pastures press release pertaining to 2007 recall of cream with listeria.
Notably in this press release Mr. McAfee blames the outbreak on his outsourcing practices.
http://www.organicpastures.com/pdfs/cream_recall_info.pdf
CDFA press release pertaining to 2008 recall of cream with Campylobacter
http://www.cdfa.ca.gov/egov/Press_Releases/Press_Release.asp?PRnum=08-061
Marler Blog on 2008 recall of cream with Campylobacter
http://www.marlerblog.com/2008/09/articles/case-news/organic-pastures-raw-cream-recall-announced-by-cdfa/
Like I said – "where there is smoke there is fire."
Shakespeare quotes? That was one of Senator McCarthys famous word tactic games that was featured in the movie: Good night and Good Luck…the story of how Edward R. Murrow took that fanatical (communist behind every bush) down. I might ask, like Cassius asked, Upon what meat doth this our Caesar (Marler), feed, that he has grown so great? But then I am reminded of what Mr. Murrow quoted from this same play just a few lines downThe fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves, that we are underlings. (I, ii, 140-141) I dont know for sure one way or the other the authentic facts regarding the 2006 issues, but I do know that CAFO lagoon water run-off near spinach fields would be more of a red flag for pathogenic contamination than green, sun-drenched dry pastures where dairy cows are allowed to live. Thats my point, and thats where I put my healths investment.
And where there is man-made "law" there is ambiquity. Alyssa Pellicano
"The first thing we do, let’s kill all the lawyers."
Henry The Sixth, Part 2 Act 4, scene 2, 7178
BH
http://www/JuicyMaters.com
Here in south central Pa we have receive a good deal of nice spring rains. Yesterday I had the misfortune to drive by 2 small dairy [?] CAFOs with my vehicle window down the stench was nearly painful that is the one downside of my many health improvement the return of my sense of smell. The dairy cows were all drenched in black filth and standing in inches of that stuff. One farm [?] had 3 larger plastic dog houses that one calf was standing in and the little fenced area allowing the poor pathic animal to walk in was barely large enough for it to turn around.
I would venture to say that if a 5th grade class were to tour these farms many of the students would refuse to eat an ice cream cone made from the APPROVED STUFF these animals manufacture.
RAW MILK from clean grass farms or dead boiled milk from APPROVED CAFOs your choise but I would suggest you might go smell them first and make your own informed selection IF you have the FREEDOM to do so.
When the APPROVERS begin to adress the FILTH ect. of the CAFOs I might begin to listen to what the may say but until then I reject their party line.
Its all Approved and Ful of Law and Legal. BUT IS IT RIGHT???
Thanks, I am not in disagreement with your points.
I’ll be off anhelmintics (again) in two seasons after we move to our new farm with more land for rotational grazing. I will also be culling specific burdened-carrier- does. Worm burden is a result of multiple factors ranging from genetics to nutrition. Understanding the life cycles of parasites (whether in my animals or apiary), and enhancing the condition of beeves or bees (couldn’t resist that) is the critical factor.
I am involved now with many farmers and producers wanting to break out from chemical dependence. That is not a simple task.
My only point is that in undergoing a transition to a healthly herd may require some intervention to protect animals and consumers during a transition. In our bee keepers group we decided to start breeding for robust Michigan/local queens and adjusting our husbandry practices accordingly. Nature is a harsh mistress and to arrive at appropriately selected genetics we have been accepting 85%+ losses to come up with survival stock. We are getting there and are using reference materials published in the late 1800’s and early 1900’s before biology became subject to chemical and industrial management.
Transitions are tough. I recommend the Canadian Organic Growers booklet, "Living with Worms" as a good start.
Anyway my point was simply that we need to address some very specific issues as Tim has noted, and that may mean sucking it up and possibly using things like vaccines for Campylobacter as a management tool to achieve ultimate goals. I’m in agreement with Tim that we need to manage these sorts of issues-and there are some pathogens/parasites that will require more involved selective management. We need to be smart and judicious and keep our eye on our goals as consumers and producers.
My wife came back through rural Amish country yesterday after meeting with clients. Fields are being plowed-the air smelled of fresh dark earth. Our local fields where Pinoeer and Monsanto grow seed corn no longer smell of the earth and are now a washed out grey. "We need to go back to find our future."
And Alyssa……well said….
Ron
I am not out to viliify grass……. it is what everything is made of.
Grass is not the issue here and most are missing the point I am trying to make.
Grass will not cure the ills of the cows from the dairy industry of which the raw milk producer is related to wether we like it or not, by the lack of years our raw milk cows were removed from the general population.
Any other feed than straight concetrates(corn wheat soy beet pulp urea ect ect ect) in the feed lot for the last 30 days of a steers life will reduce Ecoli in the STEERS rumen.
Steers are not dairy cows, and we cannot take that info and infer it to a grass based dairy operation.
A cow lives longer than steers do and can become assimulated to a pathogen AND pass it on in many vectors.
So can our fowl we love to see runiing around on the farm WHICH come from conventional hatcheries….which carry with it an 79% chance each chick will have salmonella and or campylobactor…chickens are immune to these human pathogens and spread it at will.
To narrow it down we must be sure the cows we use for raw milk production never got exposed to the general US milking herd….Organic is in that same vien,
Deer and ect exposure can be managed with a sound nutrition program and vaccinations against the problems we see from that exposure…no need for a barrier fence.
The dairy industry has left raw milk producers very little to work with and the light that is being shown on the raw milk producers should be turned right back to the dairy industry where it belongs.
We do not want to use a kill step…..to bad it shows everyone the reality of our food system.
So this is where we are and making uneducated claims that grass fixes all ills will garnish us no favors from those who would help us.
Grass is a part of a management system but not a system on to its own.
To push that notion we will have a few cows that have survived on grass, the rest ended up on the grill.
I say survive, not rebreed, milk well or provide the benefits we all are assuming are in a grass based product, and further more can carry human pathogens right along the degraded path to total failure.
I am sorry to report I work with several farm on this path…trying to meet the emotional needs of the raw consumer with hands tied and cows degraded to the point of no return.
Sounds like consumerism to me…..not a change from what we drive by and rail against.
I feel it is grossly unfair to do this to the farm, its manager and family and the cows we are supposed to love so much.
And complain about the price right along the way.
This is the true cost of our opinions being played out in Indiana and across the country.
If we contiune to ignore it as those on the otherside of the fence, well, no need to go further.
Tim Wightman
Regarding your comment to Tim a few days ago-
Actually there are quite a number of us WAPF-affiliated raw milk proponents who do accept the fact that raw milk *can* be contaminated even from grassfed cows. This may seem contradictory to you, but I (and probably a number of others) hold these opinions:
1) raw milk is a wonderful health food
2) raw milk, LIKE ANY OTHER FOOD, can carry pathogens
3) we have a right to choose what we consume and what we feed our families, even if there are risks
4) Despite my acceptance of the fact that raw milk can in some circumstances be a disease vector, there are quite a number of instances where govt. agencies do persecute raw milk farmers when it is not justified.
Clearly, none of this has to do with food safety. If anything, DATCP wants people to get sick so they can say "I told you so", and then go shut everyone down even the ones who do it right and don’t get people sick.
100% grass-fed dairy can be done and is being done successfully by quite a number of people, some of them for over a decade.
I think Tim’s point is that there is more to healthy cows and healthy raw milk than just being grassfed.
No one except CP and Lykke would argue with the assertion that pastured animals are overall healthier than their confined peers. But grassfed in itself is not a guarentee of safe milk. We need to take other steps.
Campylobacter seems to be the biggest issue in fluid raw milk. Cheese is a different story… Campylobacter can’t survive the cheesemaking process, but other organisms like Staph Aureus become a problem there.
Mark McAfee is right in that campylobacter is usually a rather minor bug, and many of us who consume raw milk and eat whole foods, probably will not get sick even if exposed to it in our food. However, since we live in a society with a large number of immuno-comprimised individuals (thanks to our bacteria-phobic food production system) we need to take measures to keep campylobacter out of raw milk.
I like Tim’s ideas. I really think he is onto something here. We have to look at the entire history of the animals producing the milk.
http://www.thecompletepatient.com/journal/2007/3/26/where-have-all-the-unpasteurized-almonds-gone-the-fear-factors-unfortunate-consequences.html#comment742931
Please read the above letter that I posted on March 26, 2007.
Antibiotics and various other toxic chemicals are used in the production of vaccines with limited success in an attempt to neutralize viral and bacterial contaminants. These substances disrupt the immune system leaving your animals vulnerable to infection. Using them in an attempt to control bacteria such as campylobacter and e coli is unwise.
The use of insecticides (neurological toxins) which are fed, sprayed, injected or pored over the animals spine makes the blood toxic to such an extent that parasites can no longer survive. They aught naught be used on pregnant animals since they are known to cause spontaneous abortions or result neurologically, mentally and physically challenged calves. These toxins dont belong in an animals body and should not be included in an organic farms management protocol.
Ken Conrad