I was reading the “Raw Milk News” on the just-launched realrawmilkfacts web site, and noticed some missing items. There’s a big proposal just in the last few days by Massachusetts to change its dairy regulations to ban raw milk buying clubs–this after four such clubs received cease-and-desist orders from the Massachusetts Department of Agricultural Resources. In fact, there’s going to be a hearing by the MDAR May 10 at 10:00 a.m. in Conference Room A on the second floor of 100 Cambridge Street, Boston.
As I understand it, if this regulation passes, Massachusetts will become the first state in the country with legalized raw milk to ban buying clubs, which essentially act as the personal agents of consumers to obtain their raw milk from licensed dairies.
Now, if this isn’t news in the world of raw milk, I don’t know what is. From the viewpoint of the originators of realrawmilkfacts.com, why not try to mobilize all the anti-raw-milk consumers to attend the hearing and show their opposition to allowing deliveries of raw milk to people who may not have cars or may be disabled and unable to travel to farms to pick up their milk?
Of course, we all know the reason: there aren’t enough real people out there who want to put other real people out of work for making real raw milk available to real consenting paying adults. If the realrawmilk.com people put such news on their site, they will only add to what is likely to be a flood of opponents to the new regulation, and they definitely don’t want to see that happen. They know that from what happened when Framingham, MA, held hearings late last year about whether to approve a local farm to sell raw milk. Only one opponent showed up, and he was a consultant for the Massachusetts Department of Public Health.
The discrepancy between what real people want and what the public health community wants is what’s at the heart of this site. It seems to be a skillfully conceived follow-on to the sledgehammer fear-mongering approach exemplified by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control. The more they fear mongered over the last few years, the more raw milk grew in popularity. It’s almost as if people would read a government warning and say to themselves, “Gee, if the government is saying this is bad for me, it must be great stuff. Just look around at all the people out there who get sick taking government-approved drugs. Let’s go get ourselves some raw milk.”
So now we have what seems to be a semi-official site that takes a much gentler and softer tone toward raw milk. There’s mention a couple times of large-scale European studies that show raw milk benefits children with allergies and asthma. There’s acknowledgment in the Q&A section that today’s cows are “virtually free” of the most serious diseases carried by milk during the late 1800s and early 1900s. “We also have better refrigeration and sanitation for storing and transporting milk.” And it acknowledges that people can get sick from pasteurized milk, and specifically mentions the three deaths in Massachusetts in 2007. It even includes in its Commentaries section, articles by Steve Bemis (11 Great Thoughts) and by me.
Okay, that’s progress. But then it says, “Even with careful sanitation, it is nearly impossible to keep all dirt and fecal matter from getting into the raw milk.” By that measure, the hundreds of thousands or millions of us regularly drinking raw milk should be falling ill from all that bad stuff. But, of course, we’re not. That’s because it is possible to keep dirt and fecal matter out of milk, and many dozens of dairy farmers are doing it every day.
And I love this answer to the question about whether raw milk tastes better than pasteurized milk: “Impartial researchers who conduct blind taste tests have not compared raw milk and pasteurized milk, in part because it would not be ethical to intentionally expose research participants to a high-risk product such as raw milk.” Sure. Our medical and public health communities are just so ethical that they couldn’t be part of a taste test of raw milk. I nearly had my raw milk coming back through my nose I was laughing so hard the first time I read that one. If nothing else, you have to give the people who did this site credit for having a sense of humor, or rather, black humor.
As several comments following my previous post point out, there’s lots more that’s striking to a raw milk advocate. For example, there’s not a single mention of the two most vocal parties in the debate over raw milk: The Weston A. Price Foundation and the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (except for a couple links). Not a single mention of this past weekend’s Second Annual Raw Milk Symposium, with its many research and position papers.
But then, this site isn’t addressed to us raw milk consumers. It’s targeted at potential newbies, and as such, it’s a skillful piece of propaganda, since it seems to at least give some credibility to “the other side,” by linking to certain foodie blogs that only very occasionally write about raw milk (like Ethicurean and La Vida Locavore), and leaving out, shall we say, other sites. It concludes that it’s nearly inevitable that raw milk contains dirt and manure. It tops that conclusion off with videos of individuals who became very sick, likely from raw milk. So in the end, it hopes the more subtle approach will be more effective than the previous sledgehammer approach.
What’s missing are the videos of the individuals it alludes to who say raw milk improved their health, or were part of the research studies showing benefits from raw milk. And that’s where this site is treading on dangerous territory, from the viewpoint of the anti-raw-milk crowd. By acknowledging that people may well experience improved health from raw milk, they are suggesting a more difficult choice for consumers. As the site says in its Q&A: “Before trying raw milk in a child with allergies or other conditions, parents should proceed with caution and talk to their pediatrician or health care provider about the possible risks of serious bacterial infection such as E. coli O157:H7.” “Proceed with caution” is a lot different than “playing Russian roulette with your health.” I mean, you should proceed with caution before putting your child on asthma or allergy medications. Once you acknowledge that raw milk has benefits, it’s a slippery slope. Better watch out, realrawmilkfacts guys (and gals)!
I only wish that everyone could know about the personal medical stories about raw milk you have each told me….they are so compelling.
Now is the time to develop and impliment your food safety programs and start educating consumers. I look forward to joining you in few weeks to help you all get started on this great task.
As far as Marler is concerned….treat him just like any FDA agent…..ignore him. He has all the money in the world and he will spread his dogma far and wide….what he will not do is change the massive amount of death that befalls Americans from depressed immune systems and FDA drug dealing. His words make this even worse.
America has an official policy of inflicting a depressed immune system on its people. Raw milk dairymen and consumers refuse to join the ranks of the lab rats with depressed immunity. Sorry Bill….your realrawmilkfacts stink of an FDA sterile food agenda.
All the news ( USA Today feature story ) and the apparent "spring time offensive against raw milk" tells us one thing…we are winning and the anti-raw milk sterile food lovers are scared to death and loosing their grip.
To quote Joel Salatin….just what is it that makes the FDA hate freedom so much???
Well I say….Just what is it that makes Bill Marler hate freedom so much. Raw milk allows personal responsiblity and the earning of a strong immune system. That in itself is a threat to the doctors and FDA drug pushers….we simply do not need them anymore. They are the origin of the 3rd highest cause of death in America….some healers they are!!
It is all about the money and market dollar voting….guaranteed. The truth is becoming to readily available and the truth is eroding and threatening the the dirty CAFO dead milk paradigm.
Mark
Does it get any clearer than that?
Is the writing on the wall here in Wisconsin?
LEGAL RAW MILK IN WISCONSIN
I believe in WIsconsin’s Dairy Farmers – our long proud tradition. Not our CAFO milk-thousands-of-cows new tradition – not our Dean Foods crushes family farmers tradition, but the Pride of all of Wisconsin: Our Family Dairymen and women.
The work is only just beginning – to do this safely – to educate – not every farm has the right situation to produce raw milk safely, and not every farm that would has everything in place they need to – yet.
With this new law – we hope will get voted on in the Assembly next week and then signed by the governor – there is new opportunity. A fresh look, a new start.
What are we going to do with that opportunity?
I know what I want to do: I want an 800 number hotline for those that would be interested in producing raw milk. I want boot camps for anyone – all – yes every last one of us – need to reconsider everything – and safety – and we need to get together and talk to each other, too.
We need a new bond between farmers: because if we do it wrong, if people get sick: We all lose. Imagine if farmers stuck together what we could do. It has happened – it will happen again – but what terrible thing has to happen to get us angry enough to do it. Can we try this without having to lose thousands of our farms, first?
And then – when we’re talking – when we see how we need each other – let’s form this Raw Milk Safety and Quality Association – and build our own brand – such that if there are those that don’t do it right, they are apart from how we do it. That we reach out and educate every potential raw milk consumer (that is, EVERYONE!) – on what to look for in a farm – remember – RE-THINK EVERYTHING
The real work is just starting, and I for one am excited at the opportunity of showing all of the world – all of it – the Pride of Wisconsin Dairymen – as we enter into The New Golden Age of Dairy – it starts here – now.
Despite the very best efforts of the State of Wisconsin, I am STILL A PROUD WISCONSIN DAIRYMAN! – Scott Trautman
http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0508/521743_video.html?ref=newsstory
And it not just USDA CERTIFIED ORGANIC frozen veggies at WFs but other super markets are also vending the same psuedo STUFF.
Can we trust anyone or anything these days I think not!!!
The question as to whether every man has the right to determine his own risk was settled in America over two hundred years ago. We all, by natural law and by constitutional doctrine, have that right, and supposedly a government to protect it. The only question really is what now to do about the armies of do-gooders and bureaucrats and power mongers that stand between our sacred founding principles and all those real people.
Our vast Administrative State has acted with arrogant impunity against natural law and the constitution in so many areas it makes the head spin to think about it. Markets and even social structure are routinely, grotesquely, manipulated, usually with hardly a peep from Joe Average. But change is in the wind—governments blind brashness seems to have awakened a sleeping giant. The line was crossed, I think, in no small part by going after food. More people than ever are rising up and standing their ground on this issue, emboldened by a new, sharper vision of todays ugly political realities, astonishment over being suddenly saddled with an Everest of federal debt, and a blooming recognition that our political and bureaucratic classes are confused, overly powerful, and even at times amoral.
Governments sledgehammer may very well be the catalyst for a long overdue paradigmatic change. Thin ice indeed!
Paralyzed man to sue creamery that produced tainted raw milk (Pennsylvania)
http://eatdrinkandbe.org/article/litigation.0415_law_rawmilk
http://video.kcts9.org:80/video/1469897687/
cp
http://www.marlerblog.com/2010/04/articles/lawyer-oped/nsf-announces-2010-food-safety-leadership-award-winners/
cp
Getting an award from them for food safety is like getting an award from the Ku Klux Klan for racial acceptance and tolerance.
get a grip. this pseudo "real" website is a "real" farce.
LOL… true dat.
Sorry, not impressed. And CP is still making excuses for the failure of pastuerization to destroy shiga toxins from E. Coli and entero toxins from Staph Aureus. CP reveals his/her real agenda NOT as being pro-food-safety, but rather as being anti-raw-milk.
http://www.thefacesofrawmilk.com
The design part still needs to be done, but the first couple submissions, including my own, are here:
http://www.thefacesofrawmilk.com/raw
Thank you!!!!!!
You are smart. Describe how Staph aureus enterotoxin vs. shiga toxin works if the toxin (not the bacteria) is ingested in food. Then compare the risks if the bacteria is ingested and the toxin is formed in the gut.
It seems obvious why raw milk advocates continue to rely on "their stories."
"It seems obvious why raw milk advocates continue to rely on "their stories." YEA AND IT IS BECAUSE THEY ARE TRUE AND HAVE NO MONEY TRAIL OR NO POWER TRAIL ORDERING THE WAY. WE FEEL THE MIRACLE CHANGES IN OUR BODIES EVERY DAY!!!
You know my story here is a little more.
There is a near record pollen count this year. I have ALWAYS in the past many decades suffered SERVELY VERY SEVERLY from spring fever. Over the last five years it has slowly improved as I began consuming LOTS RAW DAIRY and rejected the SAD. This spring I have done extensive mowing and triming of the grass planting flowers and a back yarrd veggie garden. BUT SO FAR THIS SPRING NO BAD REACTION AT ALL I WAKE UP IN THE BEING ABLE TO BREATHE THRU BOTH SIDES OF MY NOSE WITH MY MOUTH SHUT NO RED SORE EYES NO WATER POURING OUT OF MY NOSE AND SNEEZING AND SNEEZING AND SNEEZING.
But I of course NO MD to verify this story no charts no graphs no long study no peer review I am just a granola eater and a fool tea partier type as some would say so just reject my fairy tale. So just enjoy your boiled milk and your approved CHEMICAL SAD [LOL}.
In WI, at our "tea party rally" on April 15th, the master mind of NAIS, former governor of WI, and former Health and Human Services Secretary of the Bush Administration (before he left to work on the board of directors of the firm responsible for implementing NAIS) Tommy Thompson, gave the key note speech.
The tea party movement is NOT a popular or democratically controlled grassroots movement, but rather a top-down movement controlled by the more conservative segments of the corporate elites for their own benefit. It is a white nationalist movement, which celebrates military might and American-style corporate capitalism.
Why would we align ourselves with such a thoroughly corporatist and statist agenda, Don?
Shiga toxin producing E. coli have been implicated in food borne, waterborne and airborne outbreaks in studies all over the world. It is believed that the shiga toxin requires highly specific receptors on the cells’ surface in order to attach and enter the cell; species such as cattle, swine, and deer which do not carry these receptors may harbor toxigenic bacteria without any ill effect, shedding them in their feces, from where they may be spread to humans.
What prompts the release of shiga toxin from these so called toxigenic bacteria (E coli 0157 H7, Citrobacter, Enterobacter and Acinetobacter) and more importantly why do a select few individuals succumb to or, if you will have the receptors needed for the toxin to gain entrance into cells while leaving the majority of those who consume the organism and/or exposed to these toxins unharmed?
An article I read a while back stated that you are exposed to shiga from animals or people who harbor the bacteria that make it, to use the words of the CDC, "when you get tiny amounts of human or animal feces in your mouth." That’s it in a nutshell.
If that is indeed the case in a nutshell then in theory I including my children should have by now succumbed to the ravages of e coli and shiga since in the last 50 years we have consumed cow shit on many occasions.
Ken
My position is freedom of choise for everyone to choose raw milk or boiled milk freely.
INDIVIDUAL NATURAL RIGHTS is of the greatest importance but most of our fellow citizens probably have no idea what they are via living in a NANNY STATE for the last 100 years or so.
"Anyone seen this?
Paralyzed man to sue creamery that produced tainted raw milk (Pennsylvania)
http://eatdrinkandbe.org/article/litigation.0415_law_rawmilk
The article says a man was paralyzed with Guillian-Barre from a campylobacter illness after drinking raw milk produced and distributed by Pasture Maid, LLC, a creamery in New Castle, PA.
…
"In February 2009 the PA Dept of Health & Agriculture advised consumers who purchased raw milk from Dean Farms DBA Pasture Maid Creamery, LLC to immediately discard raw milk purchased there."
Hmm, I wonder what kind of conditions those Dean Farms cows were living under. The entire raw milk community will be tarred by what happened on a creamery owned by a mega-corporation. I think this helps make Scott Trauman’s point, that those who do raw milk right need to distinguish themselves (through association standards, branding and marketing) from those who don’t. Presumably Dean Foods dba Pasture Maid Creamery LLC doesn’t do raw milk right.
Don’t let Bill Marler define who we are. As far as I can tell, the current "tea party" movement has always been nationalist, corporatist, and statist. I for one do not identify with the ultra-nationalist, racist and anti-immigrant, pro-military, pro-imperialist, pro-corporate-capitalism, upper-middle-class tea party movement. Also, I do not identify with the the more "liberal" wing of the corporate military industrial imperialist state (Obama and the Democrats). I see very little difference between the two wings of the system. One screws us over with a smile (the Democrats) and the other with a sneer (the Republicans).
Are you Melissa Herzog?
You sure sound like her.
Your comment is refreshing. Instead of a knee-jerk denial, you ask questions about what might have gone wrong at the implicated dairy (and presumably that might mean you also ask how can the risks be reduced so this doesn’t happen to another raw milk consumer).
You forget about the anti-globalization movement of the late 90’s and early 00’s, which was nipped in the bud by 9-11. Recall Seattle in 1999. If anything, the tea partiers are the anti-thesis to what that anti-globalization movement represented.
I do not believe that we can have freedom without social justice. I also think that nationalism is a very poor reason to oppose globalization.
Let’s NOT allow ourselves to be identified with the tea partiers. I think it is a very bad idea to allow Bill Marler to define us as such.
You see, this bill in it’s current form gives DATCP the authority to license you and create rules regarding that license.
Possibly more inspections, stricter bacterial counts, recordkeeping, storing milk, more out of pocket expenses, and don’t forget what your farm insurance company will say when they find out you have a raw milk permit. Don’t think your liability will skyrocket? What if they told you that in order to produce raw milk you’ll need another new milkhouse? Or a bottling plant?
Mark McAfee will tell you that raw milk is legal in CA (much like it would be under this bill in WI), but it’s not, really. It’s legal for him, because he has the financing/money/brand name/employees/debt to produce it. A five cow dairy is SOL in CA. Here in WI, raw milk will only be "legal" for those who want to play ball with DATCP, and who are willing to put up with their flip-flopping and animosity.
This bill will give DATCP a list of the farms that sell raw milk, and all milk has to be tested by a state lab. It’s always the state labs that find "problems" in the milk when independents don’t. Hmmm….
DATCP will have a list of your farms and they control the labs that do the milk testing. Problem-Reaction-Solution. I bet that in the year and a half before this bill sunsets that they WILL find a problem in one of those farms’ milk, and that’ll be the excuse they need to shut the whole thing down and say, see, we told you so!
CP told us a few years ago that she could find a "problem" in your milk if that’s what TPTB want, do any of you remember this? I sure do.
This is one Grade A dairy farmer who won’t, no, not ever, not in a million years, get a raw milk permit if this bill passes.
http://rawmilkparty.com/
Link above is to a web site dedicated to Max Kane I have not had time to watch the video or read all that is there but it seems as if the state is pushing the judge to place Max Kane in jail for a year.