One question underlies the recent debate about outbreaks of illness over the last year that seem to be from raw milk: What is the long-term practical importance of these illnesses?
It might be said that the people who have become sick over the last year, likely from milk in Wisconsin, Colorado, and Indiana, will all recover after mild illnesses. As a result, there likely won’t be any court suits seeking financial damages. The real issue, say some, has to do with people’s depressed immune systems or the government’s desire to use the illnesses to exert greater control over our food choices.
I think there is a highly practical element in all this, and it goes beyond the tremendous teaching that has gone on here following my previous post, with important sharing of information and guidance from highly knowledgeable farmers and dairy experts—from Tim Wightman, Michael Schmidt, Mark McAfee, Greg Niewendorp, Deborah Stockton, Milk Farmer, Ken Conrad, Gary Cox, Someone’s Farmer, and Amanda Rose, among others.
One issue I worry about is this: How are state and federal judges likely to view recent illnesses likely attributable to raw milk? Especially given that there is likely to be more court action concerning raw milk in upcoming months and years.
I worry because I’ve had a chance to review a transcript of a hearing held last month before a federal judge in California over the effort by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to impose severe restrictions on the operations of Organic Pastures Dairy Co. The FDA is seeking to subject the nation’s largest raw dairy to frequent and random inspections, which it would have to pay for, and to all kinds of bureaucratic approvals before it can ship milk in California—all supposedly to ensure it doesn’t sell milk in states outside California. The proposed penalties stem from a civil suit filed by the FDA in December 2008, together with a criminal case that has since been resolved with owner Mark McAfee pleading guilty and committing to refrain from interstate milk shipments.
The hearing provides important insights into how a federal judge who has looked closely at the FDA’s arguments against OPDC views both the agency’s vendetta against raw milk and the matter of illnesses that could stem from contaminated milk.
The judge, Oliver Wanger, hasn’t yet ruled on the FDA’s move to impose severe restrictions on OPDC, but he made clear in no uncertain terms that he sees the agency as serious overreaching in its efforts to supposedly prevent the dairy from shipping out of state.
As one example, the FDA is seeking to require that all purchasers of OPDC milk sign a statement to the effect that the milk can’t be taken across state lines, or re-sold to someone who might take it across state lines. The judge questioned the Justice Department lawyer representing the FDA very closely on this.
“The Court has the concern that this paragraph does not say ‘interstate.’ Conceivably, one way to read this paragraph is that every carton of milk that’s sold or any raw milk product that is sold is going to require the consumer and the retailer and/or the wholesaler to sign this statement. And that would, I think, have such a chilling effect on the conduct of business that it would put the defendant out of business.”
To which the Justice Department lawyer, Roger Gural, stammered: “Well, Your Honor, short of including this provision, there would be no — no way for the United States to enjoin the defendants from selling their entire stock of raw milk to someone down the street in California and then watch them ship it out of state without this provision. You know, I think that, you know, hypothetically we could – we could draw scenarios about a mother buying a — like a half gallon at the grocery store, reselling it to someone across state lines. But the thrust of this is to prevent the middle man straw purchaser and, in effect, it’s almost a protection for the defendants.”
Nice to know the FDA our government is so worried as to want to protect us from a mom re-selling milk across state lines. The judge was similarly unimpressed. “It seems to me completely unworkable because of the various channels of distribution that these kinds of consumers products are sold through. My sense of it is — I’ve heard what you said. It seems at best unprecedented and it seems unduly burdensome.”
Things got even worse for the government lawyer once the judge got to the FDA’s idea for conducting unlimited inspections of OPDC, and, get this, forcing OPDC to pay for the inspections. Twice Judge Wenger referred to this provision as a “death penalty” on OPDC. “This is a death penalty. Where you can basically shut the business down without any notice, without any opportunity to be heard.”
The judge seemed to get himself even more worked up as he went on lecturing the government lawyer: “I simply am not convinced that this draconian, if you will, remedial construct is in any way necessary. I don’t think the public is going to be jeopardized in any way by not having this, what I call the death penalty provision in here. This is taking Organic Pastures out without going to a magistrate and stringing them up and throwing a noose around its neck and hanging it until dead.”
Yeah, I’d say the judge wasn’t exactly blown away by the FDA’s legal construct for keeping OPDC under its thumb.
It would be nice if we could stop there and sit back, awaiting Judge Wenger’s likely rejection of the most onerous parts of the FDA’s proposed civil penalties on OPDC. But the judge had a few observations that relate directly to the discussion we’ve been having on this blog about the importance of illnesses from raw milk. Essentially, the judge referred several times to the fact that there are no allegations of illnesses from OPDC’s milk driving the government’s effort to, as the judge said, “hanging (OPDC) until dead.”
But what if there were illnesses? In that case, things might be different, the judge suggested in his tongue-lashing of the Justice Department lawyer, when he said there is “no showing that what they’re doing is jeopardizing the public. In other words, we don’t have coliform, we don’t have salmonella, we don’t have other kinds of deadly bacteria or organisms. And so whereas if you had somebody who’d been selling bad cheese or somebody who’d been selling bad beef or bad fish, up in the Northwest, then this kind of a condition might be justified. But here, where what we’re concerned about is mislabeling, misbranding and interstate shipment, let’s confine the remedies to what you’re trying to stop…”
Later in his assessment, the judge states, “You’re taking language from orders where you have had contamination, where you’ve had adulteration, where you’ve had other kinds of risks rather than — this is simply, if you will, mislabeling…”
I hear the judge saying two things: First, that the FDA has acted like a total bully in trying to restrict OPDC from selling across state lines; and second, that if there had been any illnesses associated with OPDC selling in other states—say, someone in another state had become sick from contaminated OPDC milk—he’d have an entirely different view of the situation.
It’s important to keep in mind that judges are people, they represent the population at large. I think this judge definitely does. Like many Americans, he’s highly suspicious of bureaucratic bullying of the sort FDA specializes in. To the extent that the FDA couldn’t point to any illnesses that resulted from OPDC selling in other states, the agency didn’t have a lot of leverage—in fact, it seems to have irritated the judge. If it had been able to point to illnesses, well, the judge could well have had an entirely different view. That’s what worries me about the illnesses in the Midwest.
Michael Schmidt convinced a Canadian judge of the legality of his cowshare arrangement in part because his dairy had never been associated with any illnesses. Had there been illnesses, the outcome in that case might well have been different.
In the event there are illnesses, a possible mitigating factor could be a concerted effort by those involved to identify the causes, and reduce the chances of anything happening again. (Though that’s admittedly a long shot in our increasingly germophobic culture.) While I agree that the public health officials have a knee-jerk tendency to blame raw milk, judges aren’t likely to go in for conspiracy theories. The best defense, though, is as few illnesses as possible, and the way to achieve that seems to be via an overarching commitment, through a variety of techniques, to improving animal health and safety.
One final note: Once the new food safety legislation passes (S 510) and is signed by the President, the FDA will be free to do many of the things it had to come before a judge to ask permission for in the OPDC case–arbitrary searches, arbitrary conditions to certify HACCP plans, arbitrary rules covering “Good Agricultural Practices”, and so on and so forth. If the agency behaves this way knowing it has to face a judge, imagine its manners once there is no oversight.
We need to have fair and equitable approaches to dealing with illness liability.
I just get tired of the constant seeming leniency shown to Big Corporate Food and the constant beat down given to Small Local Food, when it should be the other way around.
That has been the experience here in WI. It proves once again that, despite what Lykke, CP, and Marler say, this does NOT have anything to do with food safety, but rather with food fascism — total corporate control of our food supply, via corporate control of the government and legal system.
I have seen this scenario a few times….farmer gets in what is thought by the State to be trouble, government gets before the courts and applies their logic..the rest of ask..WHAT??
Those who have ascended to oversite postions like most government/corporate officials have thier own sheltered perception of how things work…the rest of us have to balance out perceptions against reality, principals of biology and process.
This is what the 60 comments were about in the last post by David.
We talk about 2 milks when we really should add 2 perceptions to the mix.
Sustained growth and ever increasing profits, through controled markets, coupled with 100% guaranties(sound familair)
Opposite of that is everyday exsistance and the reality of balance.
Tim Wightman
People’s immune systems are compromised, possibly due to diets, environmental exposures and pharmaceuticals ingested.
Gastric secretions supposedly decrease as we age, yet the millions who have developed GERD over the last 20-30 years are put on PPIs/H2RAs that decrease the gastric secretions which further interferes with the immune system.
Instead of searching out why there has been a mass diagnoses of GERD and correcting that, they are given pill(s) to band-aid the symptoms. The pills do not cure the GERD and they further cause added symptoms and the GERD continues to erode the gut.
Indeed, "Sustained growth and ever increasing profits, through controled markets, coupled with 100% guaranties(sound familair)" Sounds very familiar.
Very nice post…..I can not wait for the judges decision and opinion. If his comments are any indication I would guess that we have winner.
There are Two Raw Milks in America…one for people and one for the pasteurizer.
There are also Two Death Certificates in America..
…..one is politically correct and endorsed by the FDA, the medical comminunty….it does not make the news yet it is the third leading cause of death in America killing hundreds of thousands per year.
…the other politically improper Death Certificate is being associated with raw milk. Anything negative makes front line news but never kills anyone. How can something that does not kill people be such a huge killer machine news piece???
This is the sure sign of a huge smoke screen and a distraction from truth.
The FDA is so fake and so sick….they drink their own policy bath water.
Farmers….connect to your consumers, keep the raw milk clean, develope safety plans, keep your products delicious. Ignore the back ground noise. Victory is yours.
The fake and sick will die off from their own self absorbed disfunctional illness. Lies can only be told for so long before the public just will not buy them anymore. Dollar voting eats liers alive in time. The truth will always prevail.
Nurture the truth.
Mark
http://www.etruth.com/Know/News/Story.aspx?id=509640
Mark,
Only by the grace of God Chris didnt die; and what about Mari Tardiff? She basically got a death sentence, but is still alive. In the summer when Im not working, Im going to research all the raw dairy outbreaks since 2005 and count the number of children and adults that contracted an E.coli 0157:H7 infection that developed into HUS after drinking raw milk. This will be a count for you as to how many people have been on the verge of death due to drinking raw milk. If it was 20 years ago, all would have died. The advances in modern medicine kept them alive. Do you not comprehend this?
http://www.about-hus.com/
You ask, How can something that does not kill people be such a huge killer machine new piece? Here are some reminders as to why the negatives of raw milk are a news piece.
This is the face of HUS. Maybe this has something to do with why public health authorities make a big deal when theres a raw milk outbreak.
Christopher Martin, drank Organic Pastures Raw Skim Milk over Labor Day Weekend. His symptoms started with a headache and fever on September 5th, and diarrhea, bloody stool, and vomiting began on September 7th. Christopher was admitted to the emergency room on the evening of September 7th and admitted to the hospital in the morning of September 8th. He was diagnosed with Hemolytic Uremic Syndrome on September 11, 2006. He endured the use of a ventilator, kidney dialysis, chest drainage tubes, blood transfusions, plasma transfusions platelet transfusions, intravenous nutrition, narcotics, antibiotics, and surgeries. He recovered from renal failure, congestive heart failure, a collapsed lung, acute pancreatitis, high blood pressure and seizures. When he was in critical condition, he was in the care of a nephrologist, cardiologist, neurologist, gastroenterologist and multiple attending PICU physicians. Christopher was released from the hospital on November 2, 2006.
Once again Mark, I ask you not to make light of the serious illnesses that have occurred from drinking raw milk. I often wonder what Mari Tardiff thinks when she reads the bullshit you write. Do you ever think about this Mark? The woman has been damaged for life and you continue with your ridiculous innuendoes about the safety of raw milk no one has died so what is the big deal. A pathogen in raw milk is a big fu***** deal! This mother lion will continue to remind you of this fact.
http://www.marlerblog.com/2010/01/articles/legal-cases/2006-e-coli-o157h7-outbreak-linked-to-organic-pastures-raw-milk-one-victims-story/
http://www.foodpoisonjournal.com/2009/12/articles/food-poisoning-information/before-you-consider-drinking-raw-milk-please-read-this-and-watch-these-videos/
David writes:
"One final note: Once the new food safety legislation passes (S 510) and is signed by the President, the FDA will be free to do many of the things it had to come before a judge to ask permission for in the OPDC case–arbitrary searches, arbitrary conditions to certify HACCP plans, arbitrary rules covering "Good Agricultural Practices", and so on and so forth. If the agency behaves this way knowing it has to face a judge, imagine its manners once there is no oversight."
Ugh. What a chilling thought.
-Blair
Again raw milk is singled out.
What about all the illnesses from consuming the SAD? What about the illnesses from consuming processed foods? Consuming foods laden with pesticides/herbicides? Where is the national out cry? These "foods" do far more damage than raw dairy.
Heres what the doctor stated, Ashleys diarrhea tested positive for Shiga toxin. The nephrologist stated Ashley likely had an E. coli infection that produced the Shiga toxin that in turn caused the HUS. This is exactly what we were told.
So the spin you do in an attempt to minimize Chris case needs to stop. Kids develop HUS despite the fact they arent given antibiotics and not all cultures are able to isolate the E.coli bacteria. Finding the Shiga toxin is as good as finding the bacteria.
Kim Hartke, if youre reading this I ask you to remove the lies you wrote as the publicist for WAPF about the facts of our sons case. He did not eat Dole packaged spinach and he was not wearing a wristband that stated not to give him antibiotics. Im so tired of this organization and their inability to tell the truth. If you want to drink raw milk, go for it. But dont tell lies to your followers to make them believe raw milk is safer than it is.
I encourage everyone to read this story. Your minds might be more open to the damage done by E.coli 0157:H7 if youre reading about someone who did not become ill from raw milk. It doesnt matter the food source that is contaminated, the damage on the human body is the same. E.coli 0157:H7 does not discriminate.
Mary
The bottom line is this…..organic, grass fed raw milk practices did not ever produce ecoli 0157H7….CAFO Antibiotic abusing systems did. Mary, you need to start beating up the true origins of these terrible bacteria.
Go pick on them. They are the origins of the bad bugs.
More than 65,000 people per week drink OPDC raw milk and we have not yet found a pathogen in our raw milk…never.
If raw milk was so dangerous OPDC products would routinely cause illness. They instead bring health…lots of it.
The last death from milk was from pasteurized milk not raw milk. The FDA absolutely loves you Mary….you keep the smoke screen alive. You are the best thing that ever happened to the CAFO systems and pasteurized milk.
Why do you not ever discuss or give any value to the immune system strength that raw milk brings to so many healthy children every week in CA. All is not doom and gloom.
Would you criticize and condemn all aircraft when air-ambulances that save many lives sometimes crash injuring or killing all on board??
You fail to give credit to the great immune system strength that consumption of raw milk brings.
Your passionate condemnation of raw milk is entirely blind to the overwhelming benefits.
Mark
Why would you ever think I would promote the benefits of raw milk? There is no amount of benefits that could ever outweigh the risks. There are many other options for building up ones immune system that does not have the risk factor of raw milk.
I wonder what the WAPF members in Michigan who came down with campylobacter think about pathogen risk in raw milk, especially the families where children became ill? They got a little scare, but thank goodness there were no serious illnesses. Will they continue to give raw milk to their children? Will they take that risk again? Its different now. It will be much harder to watch them drink it again. What if there is another pathogen? Maybe next time they will hit the jackpot with E.coli 0157:H7.
Maybe you can convince them Mark. You can tell them about your super cows and how eating grass prevents pathogens. They love you Mark. You are their hero. Go ahead, convince them of the immune building properties of raw milk. How it was only campylobacter and now their immune system is stronger. You can convince them how lucky they were to get sick. Youre the master of spin. Save the movement.
If you’d believe parents of those sickened, or the Big Milk fellating folks at the FDA you’d think that this stuff was poison…
If Mary and others that are promoting the ‘hazardous substance’ line of reasoning are right, why aren’t there more ‘incidences’. Why aren’t more people getting sick or dying from raw milk?…It’s just not happening. Reality is that thousands of gallons a day are consumed without a problem…
That’ there is no amount of benefit that out weighs the risk’ is flatulence….numbers show, all across the country, that most raw milk being provided is safe..and that most raw milk drinkers are seeing a marked improvement in their health. No one is holding a gun to someones head to drink it raw…. Risk is an individual decision, and every person should have the right to make it for themselves.
No positive pathogen test from OPDC is quite telling….and if there were really a problem, and 157 was so much of a big deal, then the frequency of positive tests would be higher….no matter the frequency of testing. Those with an axe to grind shouldn’t be the ones to decide whether the tree should be felled…. Ignoring the benefit, while concentrating on the worst case scenario, which as far as I can tell is less than a thousand of a percentile, is foolish.
Mark, it is amazing that youve been able to grow your business with the same number of cows or less than a few years ago. How does that mathematically work?
cp
Do you know how many get sick from cold cuts, hamburger, pasteurized milk etc.?
Raw milk is villified and held to a different standard than other foods….and this is wrong…especially when you consider the tremendous benefits that it precipitates in the health of those that consume it.
It is astonishing to view the effort expended to remove limit or restrick our right to choose to PURCHASE a glass of FRESH MILK when compared to the REAL problems we as a nation are daily confronted with. And by the way over 35000000 thats 35 million Americans are receiving food stamps. Where do our priorities lie? DAMN THE FRESH MILK FARMER what are we thinking??? Or at least what are the antireal milk folks thinking???
If food safety were really the concern, then these regulators would be busy at work understanding how to produce safe raw milk, and establishing production standards to this effect.
Instead, they are busy at work waging a vicious war against all raw milk producers, regardless of whether they have made anyone sick or not.
Witness Wisconsin, where every raw milk farm in the state is shut down because one farm made people sick, provoking a massive outcry from consumers and producers alike.
Is this what your profession exists to do Lykke, and CP? Enforce corporate dictates unto an unwilling population?
All the evidence seems to suggests so. Its a good thing there are some judges that agree.
The prevention of immune depression and death from illness on a grand scale far out weighs the extremely rare non-fatal illness caused by raw milk.
This is reality and this is the truth. Mary…your passion is a very strong and effective tool and I respect it deeply.
The CA raw milk market relies upon moms just as ferocious as you in the defense of the right to acccess raw milk when you use it to attack. There are thousands of moms in CA that are just as passionate as you are but they use their passion to defend their right to drink raw milk and in turn grow families that do not have asthma, IBS, Crohns, Excema, etc…… these diseases kill many each year….asthma kills over 5000 per year and that does not inlcude the tens of thousands that have weakened teeth and bones from steroids.
I will not convince you of these benefits….that is the way of passion.
By the way…I never promise perfection in food safety….I only promise improved immune strength and immunity and that in this world is a gift that is huge and rare.
I am so very glad to know that Chris is doing well and continue to send him the best of blessings for his future.
Mark
Mark
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/06/AR2010040600311.html
Mid-size dairies win consumers with less-processed milk.
It would seem that progress [?] moves ever so slowly. Even this guy that is wedded to the system states " THE BIG LIE IS THAT ALL MILK IS THE SAME"
for the record, mark mcafee did not plead guilty to the criminal charge brought by the us atty’s office in california. mark pled not guilty.