I’m beginning to understand why the dairy group at the U.S. Food and Drug Administration usually declines to comment publicly about controversies over raw milk. Because on the few occasions when it has commented, it’s come up looking either totally repressive, totally ignorant or, most recently, totally delusional.
In the Humboldt County raw milk situation, the FDA submitted a 28-page document at the tail end of the consideration process, with the catchy title, “Raw Milk Misconceptions and the Danger of Raw Milk Consumption”. All I can say is that I’m worried about whether these people are playing with a full deck.
As Mark McAfee laments in a comment following my previous post, the document is notable for an almost religious fervor against raw milk. In that vein, it’s not dissimilar from the legal brief submitted last April seeking to refute the Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund suit against the agency. That was the brief in which the agency declared, we have “no absolute right to…any particular food.”
But most notably in the submission to the Humboldt County Board of Supervisors, the FDA makes a number of amazingly outrageous statements that suggest people out of touch with any semblance of their own version of scientific thinking or rational analysis. As a prime example, the FDA states that a number of dairy illnesses attributed by various scientific studies and by the Centers for Disease Control to pasteurized milk were, indeed, the fault of raw milk. Yes, you read that right. “In The Verbal Argument by Mark McAfee, the author cited various foodborne outbreaks where pasteurized milk was implicated. For these cited outbreaks, FDA was able to find scientific literature describing these outbreaks. In most cases, the implicated milk was contaminated post-pasteurization. Ironically, in many cases, the actual source of contamination was raw milk.”
As one example, a 1983 outbreak of illness from listeria monocytogenes in pasteurized milk in Massachusetts, the FDA explains, “The likely cause of this outbreak was the high levels of L. monocytogenes contamination in the starting raw milk. During the outbreak period, raw milk was sourced from farms that had dairy cows infected with listeriosis. In addition, multiple serotypes of L. monocytogenes were isolated from raw milk obtained from these farms after the outbreak.”
As another example, outbreaks of illness from salmonella in pasteurized milk in 1984 and 1985, “The 2% pasteurized milk was likely contaminated by raw milk post-pasteurization. Both the FDA lab and a private lab confirmed that the outbreak strain of Salmonella was heat sensitive and would not survive pasteurization. The implicated plant had an unusual setup of its processing line: pasteurization was an early step followed by separation and fat standardization. Investigation at the implicated plant revealed a potential cross-connection between tanks that contained raw milk and pasteurized skim milk.”
As a third example, of its logic, it points to a 2006 outbreak of illness from pasteurized milk that sickened 1,300 prison inmates in California. “During investigation, it was noted that pasteurized milk produced before the outbreak had high bacteria counts. In addition, about 100 different C. jejuni strains were isolated on the dairy farm with 3 isolates matching the human illness strain. These observations suggested that either the starting raw milk had very high levels of pathogen contamination from the dairy environment or the milk was contaminated post pasteurization.”
So you have that straight now? If you start with raw milk that’s dirty and contaminatyed because the farmers know it will be zapped in the pasteurization process, and the milk is so filthy it isn’t or can’t be completely zapped, or the processors don’t handle the milk correctly, the problem is raw milk…and therefore raw milk is mortally dangerous.
The filth of conventional raw milk is well known in the dairy industry, and I addressed it in my book, The Raw Milk Revolution, as follows: “A study published in a 2004 issue of the Journal of Dairy Science found that in milk samples taken from 861 bulk tanks in twenty-one states around the country, 2.6 percent contained salmonella and 6.5 percent tested positive for listeria monocytogenes…the reality is that the farmers whose milk contained the pathogens could rest assured that the milk wasn’t a public health hazard because it would be pasteurized.”
I think Mark McAfee hit the nail on the head: “It is a religion mindset….there is no data that will convince a person that believes something religiously.”
I worry about these people. Or else they’re beginning to worry about the fact that ever increasing numbers of people are rushing to consume raw dairy, and not only not getting sick, but in many cases improving their health in the process. Watch out for the fanatic who sees his version of reality crumbling around him.
You just framed the four corners of this massive disconnect between TheTwo Raw Milks in America. The FDA for whatever reasons. Including Food Inc NCIMS relationships and Deans Foods market protectionism.
Sounds like if the FDA was forced by court order to accept data from CA that showed clean raw milk that was inspected and tested and that data was compared with their dear CAFO PMO filth then the raw milk movement could make progress with the FDA. Until then they are irrelevant and an enemy of the health of the people.
Mark
You too can ignore every shred of evidence that goes against his financial empire and contribute, contribute, contribute! He has gallons and gallons of the stuff and it MUST BE SOLD!!!
$$$Freedom starts in his wallet! Invest now!$$$
Because the conventional dairy alternative – the shit/pus juice is peddled by benevolent philantrops?
No, freedom does NOT start with the wallet in this case, thank you very much FDA.
When a stinky bloated corpse ends up in the morgue and no one wants to identify or claim it…thats what the police call a John Doe…is that this person or what this ex person is???
Trolls!!
They both had badges and one had a gun and handcuffs. Both were very professional and did a great job inspecting our colostrum collection and bottling process. They both gave us great feedback and we have adopted their ideas and we are hard at work implimenting their suggestions. Both of these inspectors treated us with respect and listened very carefully to our every word. We listened to their advice as well. This is how it is supposed to be and how it is supposed to work.
These two inspectors are where my reality hits the road. They both knew the standards that we operate under and both of them recieved copies of our RAMP program. Which they appreciated and thought well of.
These guys operated in reality and with real data.
The FDA I saw operating in Humboldt was from a different planet. Planet "CAFO PMO". The FDA I saw operating in Humboldt were operating under a political excercise of defending their dogma at all expense. Even at the expense of ethics and science and data.
We have a schizophrenic food regulatory system in America. It speaks out of different sides of its same mouth depending on the goals of the immediate political objectives. They do not stand on moral or ethical ground. They blow with the winds of the political climate and their paychecks.
Our big win comes with time, happy healthy consumers and eroding faith in Praying to Planet CAFO PMO. Planet "CAFO PMO" is losing 2% of their fluid milk sales every year, regardless of their very sexed up Mooootopia Ads and Got Milk? Commercials.
Dollar voting will take them out….the dairy case is covered with probiotic products as their fluid products vanish at 2% per year.
Delicous, tested, safe OPDC raw milk thrives….the consumers know what the truth of their gut says. No lying to the gut….no need for a university study to tell you about your own very intimate gut test. No one will be convinced by FDA lies when they conflict with your Gut Test.
Mark
Mark
Is it Alice in Wonderland or Malice in Wonderland?
Mr. J. Ingvar Odegaard
It really is so stupid. Extra stupid when you think about how right our guts are. I always listen to my gut. My gut says keep typing. Here's a thank you list to my gut, for all the good decisions it helped me make:
Thank you, Gut. For making me think that at 4 years old I should pull on the handle of that pot on the stove.
Thank you, Gut. For making me get in that car with the stranger at the age of 8. After all, he had candy.
Thank you, Gut. For making me think at 12, I could beat up that older, bigger kid who took Karate.
Thank you, Gut. For helping me sleep with that fast girl in college, even though she had the clap.
Thank you, Gut. For telling me my wife wouldn't mind. She left me.
Thank you, Gut. For letting me know it was alright to drive after that last beer. And for letting me know that no one else, especially kids, would be out on the roads at this time of night.
Thank you, Gut. You never let me down. The third-degree burns, emotional scarring, bloody noses, burning urination, prolonged loneliness, and manslaughter charges have been great.
– From Prison, but Still With My Gut
John Doe.
I used to boast that our milk was the most expensive in America … at $18.50 Cdn per gallon, but if Organic Pastures has hit the $18.99 mark = "good on ya!" Part of my job is educating people about what real food, really costs
the price of silver moved from $4 per ounce, to $30 just since I got involved in the Campaign for REAL MILK. Why that matters is because the REAL dollar of the United States of America is predicated in silver. As O'Bama and his Bankster pals and the race traitors in high places shovel $ into the maw of their criminal enterprise, all that phoney 'money' has to be reflected down to the grassroots level hyper-inflation is inevitable..
Jason Hommel is one of the world's experts on silver. He's predicting $500 per ounce.
we'll see REAL MILK at $50 per gallon …
Buckminster Fuller explained how the way citizens spend their money, is more powerful than the way they cast ballots in elections
More power to you, Mark … for showing people how to make REAL FOOD available to those who want it. That's what crypto red fascist John Doe is really against – freedom to make one's own choices
more likely it's a fiery dart lobbed by the enemy.
Mark – I am impressed you can say all you say on an Iphone! Don't let the goofs on here rattle you. I have the utmost respect for you and David Gumpert! Thanks for all you guys do!
FDA folks are not nutritionally conscious as are most human beings too! The ones seeking and drinking good raw milk (and various other products from raw milk like raw butter, raw cream, raw cheese) from healthy cows are the ones who are nutritionally conscious. We know who we are 🙂
nancy j
aka
"What Did We Know About Dioxin, and When Did We Know It?"
"What Did It Take to Forget What We Knew?"
"The CDC was brought in to add weight to the bogus analysis
of dioxin's effects. After 4 years and $63 million in federal funds,
CDC concluded that an Agent Orange study could not be done based on
military records, and furthermore concluded, without data, that
veterans were never exposed to harmful doses of Agent Orange!
When the CDC's protocols were examined, however, it was found that
three changes had been made to its study in 1985, in an apparent
attempt to dilute any negative effect that might be found. Congress
learned in 1986 that administration officials, not scientists, had
forestalled CDC research on the effects of dioxin.
In 1990, Senator Daschle disclosed additional political interference
in the Air Force's Ranch Hand study of Agent Orange effects. A 1984
draft report's conclusion was substantially altered, and the study was
described as "reassuring."
The Ranch Hand study is still ongoing, despite new allegations of
fraudulent methodologies coming to light every few years. It will cost
taxpayers over $100 million.
Monsanto, a manufacturer of Agent Orange, was happy to duplicate the
methods of federally funded studies. By omitting five deaths in the
exposed group and putting four exposed workers in the control group,
they were able to hide a 65% higher death rate in the workers exposed
at the Nitro plant. Another study of workers exposed in 1953 at a BASF
plant was also shown to be falsified, as all the data had been
supplied by the BASF company.
Thanks to the efforts of Admiral Zumwalt, who as the commanding Navy
Admiral in Vietnam was responsible for some of the spraying, and whose
son died from lymphoma, probably as a result of dioxin exposure, many
more illnesses were finally linked to Agent Orange, and have been made
service-connectable over the past decade."
"Reporting on the conference, Reuters pointed out, "Observers say
conclusive research could have far-reaching and expensive consequences
in terms of compensation claims for the US and Agent Orange makers,
Dow Chemical and Monsanto."
Here we have evidence that The CDC is not above falsifying documents, using fraud in studies and overruling it's own scientists when it didn't like the results they got.Why?Obviously to protect Monsanto and Dow Chemical from liability.
Now the war is on the American people.Monsanto is still producing and promoting the use of herbicides(Agent Orange was an herbicide ) and these herbicides still have the same consequences for those exposed to them as they did in Vietnam.Are we stupid enough to trust the CDC's testing and opinions when it comes to tracing "pathogens"?When illnesses are traced back to raw milk by Pulsenet(CDC's system),should we trust that they are being honest with us?Are they still protecting Monsanto from liability for the many food related illnesses that are really cause by pesticide residues in our food?
Bill Marler,
You always use CDC and their subsidiaries ,the state Health Departments,for your evidence that links an illness to a food.Why should we believe them now when they have a history of lying in order to protect corporations from liability?
http://www.verdant.net/monsanto.htm
"Monsanto has denied ever having given Bliss any waste containing
dioxin or PCBs. So far, officials of U.S. EPA are taking
Monsanto at its word and, instead of investigating the chemical
giant, are investigating and harassing the citizens who have
brought these documented facts to light."
Apparently the EPA is also working to protect Monsanto.And now we learn from Wikileaks that The State Department is also working to promote Monsanto's interests.Maybe when we deal with the federal government we are really dealing with Monsanto.Would you put your child's future in the hands of Monsanto?
I did not know that they let residents at the home for the criminally insane have internet privileges. How did you swing it?
When I finished my 30 minutes about all the good things that raw milk can bring your family and all of work we do to assure that it is safe and delicious….one of the men in the back of the room called out and said…if the FDA hates you…I already love you….
Another raised his hand and said…I have a story about your raw milk. He said….if my daughter drinks pasteurized milk she could die. It causes her to stop breathing and she needs care by paramedics and a shot of epinephrine to stop the anaphylaxsis. She drinks your milk all the time…it is awesome…our whole family drinks it!!
Then came the questions….lots of them for 20 minutes. Then came the sampling and the praise.
Visalia is in Tulare County and it is one of the biggest CAFO dairy counties in the USA. But what I have found is that even the dairymen know what is right and connect with me with mutual respect. It is the processors that they hate and that pay them like dirt…it is the FDA that loves the processors ( NCIMS ). It is the FDA that is the real enemy of the common American and their health. Not any one person at the FDA….no…it is the culture of the FDA and their CAFO and PMO protection and greed and dogma that makes the FDA culture so dangerous to our country and its people. When a culture of corrupt blindness becomes so powerfully in love with itself…it needs to be torn down and rethought. It no longer serves the purpose for which it was created. The FDA should not be anywhere near our food supply.
Mark
I called you on this a few weeks ago.
I despise the FDA. The FDA said that VIOXX was okay and my great aunt was one of the first causalites of this drug. She died.
The one drug that saved my son's life without stunting his growth (budesonide) was held up by the FDA and the government would not give the hospital and doctor that wanted to give this drug an exemption for my son when he was an infant. We were able to get it and he thrived without any severe stunting of his growth. But, I will not go into details how we did so. It is a moot point now because it has been approved for nearly 10 years now with no major side effects noted.
I also took Seldane for many years as an adolescent and young adult. Approved by the FDA as a great allergy drug. It was pulled because it can cause heart problems. So where am I if I develop heart problems in my 40's?
So anyway . . . . if the FDA says that raw milk is bad . . I don't believe them. The health of my family and 100,000's of thousands of other families out there that regularly consume raw milk without illness proves this point. We are closing on 1,000,000 families . . . . . keep those numbers growing everyone:)
The FDA is only interested in helping big Pharma, big Ag and the overseas Import market. It could care less about small local farms (why has the approval of the very safe wormer "Zolvix" been held up?) and the average taxpaying American.
Kind regards,
Violet
http://www.kilbyridgefarmmaine.blogspot.com
I see every day what these chemicals have done to these men and women. The burn pits from this current war, is the current plague along with the vaccinations they are forced to get.
Bill do you have any idea why the FDA has not listed raw milk on its top ten most risky foods list but consider raw milk to be highly dangerous ? So dangerous that no one should ever drink it for any reason and at any time. Yet each and every other risky food is pretty much available in most all stores in America.
If anyone should know, I think you would.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/MindMoodNews/risky-foods-ice-cream-tuna-cheese-potatoes-greens/story?id=8753705
Do you have any idea why this is?
Thanks for checking on this,
Mark
Just a hunch…but there are no numbers to support this change.
Mark
I would be catious about saying FDA is trying to help the overseas import market.
Why do they continue to ban soft-ripened French raw milk cheeses? Vacherin Mont D'or, Eppoise de Bourgogne, real Alsatian Munster, real Brie and Camembert, Valency, Crottin, Cabecou, etc…
Would I ever love it if FDA tried to help THAT import market!! I am salivating just thinking about it!
For what it's worth, Seldane caused cardiac arrhythmia, especially in combination with other drugs. Your heart should be fine.
http://www.wiscnews.com/baraboonewsrepublic/news/local/article_50fe433e-1dfd-11e0-9c4e-001cc4c002e0.html
BNR sues state agency
A lawsuit filed Monday by the Baraboo News Republic seeks the release of documents detailing a state agency's investigation of a Loganville raw milk distributor.
The state Department of Agriculture, Trade and Consumer Protection did not provide proper justification for denying the newspaper records related to the investigation of farmer Vernon Hershberger, a complaint filed by the newspaper states.
State officials have said releasing the documents could compromise their case against the farmer.
In early June, DATCP obtained a warrant to search Hershberger's organic dairy farm. The agency suspected Hershberger was selling dairy and retail food without proper licenses. Investigators took an inventory and sealed coolers with tape.
But Hershberger said he was not required to have the licenses because his store was a members-only club in which people leased farm animals and were provided dairy products from those animals. He openly disobeyed DATCP's order to discontinue sales.
The raid on Hershberger's farm made headlines statewide, and rekindled a debate over the sale of raw milk just weeks after then-Gov. Jim Doyle vetoed legislation that would have allowed limited raw milk sales.
On Sept. 13, DATCP forwarded reports and evidence from its investigation to the state Department of Justice and the Sauk County District Attorney's Office for possible prosecution.
But those agencies have not filed charges against Hershberger. The DOJ and Sauk County District Attorney Patricia Barrett have declined to comment on the status of the case.
Last month the News Republic requested DATCP's investigative reports. Bureau of Food Safety and Inspection Director C. Thomas Leitzke denied the request in a Dec. 22 letter that stated release of an investigative report would interfere with "the ongoing investigation and prosecutorial review."
Leitzke's letter said after prosecutors examine reports and evidence, they may ask DATCP to conduct additional investigation and interviews, and that process would be compromised by the release of investigative reports.
But the lawsuit filed by the News Republic states DATCP's reasons for denying the request were not specific to the report in question. "Rather, those reasons would apply generally to foreclose public access to any investigation reports DATCP submits for evaluation and possible prosecution," the lawsuit states. "Only the Legislature can provide such a broad, categorical exemption to the Open Records Law's presumption of complete public access."
DATCP spokeswoman Donna Gilson said she could not comment on the lawsuit.
News Republic Publisher George Althoff said the public deserves to know the status of the Hershberger case, because it has been more than seven months since the initial raid.
The outcome of the case may have implications for a legal precedent established in 2008 when a state appeals court ruled in favor of one of the News Republic's sister papers, the Portage Daily Register, in a similar dispute.
In that case, the Columbia County Sheriff's Department denied the Daily Register access to an investigative report on the grounds that it had been forwarded to the District Attorney's Office and was part of an ongoing investigation.
After a circuit court judge ruled in favor of the Sheriff's Department, the newspaper appealed.
A state appeals court later ruled in the newspaper's favor, saying public agencies must provide case-specific policy reasons for denying access to records.
"Previous cases have established that a records request cannot be denied solely because that record has been turned over to a prosecutor for review," said Bill Lueders, president of the Wisconsin Freedom of Information Council. "And it's difficult to see how the state's interests could be harmed by the release of this record. If a prosecution does ensue, the state is going to have to put all of its cards on the table, in open court. This report should be on the table now."
DATCP has 45 days from the time it received the newspaper's complaint to respond.
Bill Marler, Lykke, et al: Those who don't or can't have a family cow of their own shouldn't be allowed to buy raw milk to pasteurize at home? They should be forced to buy only pasteurized commercial dairy swill???
Nobody WANTS pasteurized commercial milk, once they've had real milk.
But of course, since "real milk" is a superhero that can do no wrong, I must be crazy. Obviously you people are all right and the rest of the world is wrong. Duh! A dairy owner making big money off of you, and a cranky old man selling books based on a war he manifests in his mind, and anyone who ever got sick from FDA approved drugs are probably all completely right. All the time. Especially if they don't have science or evidence backing them up. Next time I get sick, I'll just eat dirt. And if the FDA approves dirt, I'll stop! I can see the connection so clearly now!
I can feel the heat and pressure building in this movement.
So, whoever-you-are-without-even-a-pseudonym, you usually write lies while posting here??
I'd rather Mark make money than the Pasteurized Mega-Dairies that produce milk so filthy that even pasteurization won't always kill it, according to FDA's testimony.
Many of us received David's book gratis; I did; he sure made no money off me anyway. Besides, I'm pretty sure it's not a mega-seller on par with Steven King so he's most probably not making millions from it….
You must be quite young if you consider David (and myself) old.
Researchers are finding that the placebo is incredibly effective. Weirdly effective. It beats prescription drugs in tests. Sometimes it works even when they TELL a patient "you are getting a placebo".
Sometimes there are things science just can't grasp. Quantum physics gives us lots of fun examples of that – particles that show up where ever you happen to look, for instance.
Why is it we can accept there are mysteries related to placebo,
there are mysteries of quantum physics, but they believe they know all there is to know about milk and no mysteries remain undiscovered?
BTW, John Doe, if raw milk is my placebo, how does that hurt you exactly? You wrote: Obviously you people are all right and the rest of the world is wrong. Duh!
The folks here don't care if you want to pasteurize your milk. They just want you to keep your paws, and your opinions, in your own kitchen and out of theirs.
Have there been other areas in your life where the people around you have whispered the term "control freak"?
FDA Memo Threatens Agency's Farmer Employees
Just months short of his January retirement from the Food and Drug Administration, Lonnie Luther received word that his employer deemed his part-time farming operation a conflict of interest. He had, the memo said, 60 days to either sell his farm or quit his job.
Luther wasnt alone. In fact, every FDA employee with any interest in farming received the same memo. And while FDA officials have put a hold on the order while the ethics rule on which it is based makes its way up the bureaucratic ladder for top-level reconsideration, employees fear the worst.
I feared they might strip me of my retirement annuity for refusing to sell or quit, and for going public with the memo, Luther said. I still have anxieties and fears about what they might come up with.
An FDA official, who would not speak to Lancaster Farming specifically about Luthers case and could offer only background information on the policy, said the agencys ethics rules are no different from those of any other government entity, although clearly they have never been enforced.
At issue is a new interpretation of the 10-year-old Supplemental Standards for Ethical Conduct for Employees of the Department of Health and Human Services. Should an FDA regulated product apply to farm crops and food animals?
Vincent Tolino, the ethics and integrity director who wrote the sell-or-quit memo, decided it did, although he told the Maryland Gazette newspapers that there was really no exact point when an interpretation changed.
But change it did and, in his memo to Luther, Tolino stated that because the … operations you are involved in are significantly regulated by FDA, you are prohibited from retaining this financial interest.
Luther, a special assistant to the director of the FDAs Office of New Animal Drug Evaluation, has been with the agency since 1974 and the owner of a Damascus, Md., farm for almost as long. He said that every year he has filed papers declaring his interest in the farm, where he and wife, Mina, raise corn, soybeans, hay, beef cattle and show chickens.
Where, he asked FDA officials, is the conflict of interest? It was a question to which he said he received no satisfactory answer.
He has never, he insists, attempted to parlay his position with FDA into an unfair marketing advantage for his small farming operation. He owns the farm because this is how I want to live. I grew up on a farm and wanted to continue that lifestyle.
Katherine Weld, a colleague of Luthers who is nowhere near retirement, raises meat goats on her 26-acre farm just outside Frederick, Md. She admits to being off the deep end over the memo and is planning to leave the agency if it ultimately becomes necessary.
Im not going to give up this lifestyle, she said of the farm. I like the hard work and satisfaction of raising an animal, and I have started to look for jobs.
Like Luther, she sees no conflict of interest in her farming operation and job.
Im not saying the meat is FDA-approved, and I dont tell anyone I work for the FDA, she said. Using that information for marketing would be a problem, and it would be wrong.
However, she said the ethics rule has been bent so far that you cant sell a tomato out of your backyard garden, and she also believes it would bar children from participating in 4-H activities.
This isnt Enron, she said of the alleged ethics violations.
Although Weld doesnt personally know of any employee who has sold a farm, that doesnt mean it hasnt happened since the memo was sent to FDA employees nationwide.
While they wait for the bureaucracy to work its will on the ethics rule interpretation, they all live in fear the ax is going to fall, she said.
Since so many of the agencys most valued professionals may choose to quit, she thinks the agency is making a big mistake in beefing up its ethics rule interpretation.
If theyre afraid of losing their institutional knowledge, pushing people out the door is not the way to keep them, she said.
Luther is far less diplomatic in his assessment of the situation, calling the agencys ethics staff a bunch of idiots who have decided to exercise their intelligence. Its just nonsense, unbelievable stuff.
Yes I know this. Unfortunately most of those drugs were antibiotics. I was on both Seldane and antibiotics at the same time while as a college student. Many, many many times . . .those combinations are what cause the heart problems.
You see . . . . I have very, very severe allergies. Which case drainage that affect my ears. I used to be forced to take predesone shots annually years ago before drinking raw milk. My last ear infection as an adult was five years ago.
Since drinking raw milk . . my ear infections are no more.
Raw milk has not only solved my severe allgeries . . . . but my ears have been fine.
The FDA want to now get rid of something (raw milk) that has solved my problems.
Well I say . . . . go pound sand!!!!
Kind regards,
Violet
http://www.kilbyridgefarmmaine.blogspot.com
"War is the health of the state."
http://flag.blackened.net/revolt/hist_texts/warhealthstate1918.html
"But there is no deeply rooted historical tradition of unfettered access to food of all kinds. See Glucksberg, 521 U.S. at 721. To the contrary, societys long history of food regulation stretches back to the dietary laws of biblical times. See Peter Barton Hutt & Peter Barton Hutt II, A History of Govt Regulation of Adulteration & Misbranding of Food, 39 Food, Drug & Cosmetic Law J. 2, 3 (1984) (citing Leviticus 11, 17 and 19, and Deuteronomy 14)." (FDA response at page 28, see http://www.ftcldf.org – sorry, I cannot get tiny url to work – click on the FDA response box on the home page).
So, it's not surprising that FDA is religiously zealous in this matter! Separation of church and state be damned….
David
#10. The shit/pus juice is peddled by benevolent philantrops?
#9. He has gallons and gallons of the stuff and it MUST BE SOLD!!!
*8. Who the hell is John Doe????
*7. I did not know that they let residents at the home for the criminally insane have internet privileges.
*6. Am salivating just thinking about it!
*5. Don't let the goofs on here rattle you.
*4. Nobody WANTS pasteurized commercial milk, once they've had real milk.
*3. Researchers are finding that the placebo is incredibly effective.
*2. Matthew 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
#1: I must object to your characterization, a cranky old man
It is interesting that the FDA is actually right about this, as I pointed out before. The laws of Kosher are a prime example of an ancient food regulation code. Yet, somehow I don't think that the authors of the laws of Kosher would approve of the FDA's stances and tactics towards raw milk today.
I know this doesn't make me popular to say around here, but this idealogy of total rugged individualism is really a very uniquely American thing, and could prove to be the downfall of the raw milk movement. It may serve a valid purpose in some cases, but it is easy to get carried away with the individualism as we so often see in the debates on this forum.
Let's be honest with ourselves — There is immense value in the often unspoken social codes surrounding food. It is just that American's social codes largely revolve around corporate commercial food culture. It is very much a product of our highly individualistic culture.
But let's not forget that pasteurization is a very modern invention. Cooking milk and cheese may have had a place in ancient food traditions (a Swiss fondue comes to mind), but pasteurization is without doubt a very "new" thing.
In this sense, it is the FDA that has everything wrong, because they are the ones defying all of the ancient traditions surrounding milk and cheese. You'd be hard pressed to find more than a dozen cheese maker's in the US making Swiss-style cheese in a copper kettle (the way they actually make almost all aged cheeses in Switzerland) because the FDA considers copper to be "unsanitary."
a jaw dropper – partly based on the content of what was said, and partly by finding out
how severely warped our judicial system truly is.
It was interesting to see FDA mention that it's charged with ensuring that our food is "safe and wholesome". Immediately my mind was flooded with the "wholesome" foods they endorse:
Twinkies,
MSG, artificial colors and flavors, artificial sweeteners
Red Bull
White bread
Trans fats
Not to mention the beloved 'acceptable PPM' (parts per million) of mercury and innumerable other contaminates.
Yet they contend t that the public is somehow unreasonable when we don't believe them to be competent to make food decisions for us. They don't even define the words safe or wholesome using the same dictionary that we use!
That entire document is a beautiful study in the irrationality of group think.
That right there should be all anyone needs to know to understand why farmers reject being regulated by the FDA.
America's individualistic culture is a by-product of three things: a foundational legal emphasis on fundamental rights and sovereignty of the person, that we settled by a bunch of folks fleeing persecution for the sake of their individual religious beliefs, and that the continent was conquered by necessarily individualistic frontiersmen and homesteaders. What little sense of community and tradition we had was wiped out by industrialism, corporatism, and consumerism.
The FDA's approach is reflection of their European fascist approach which knowingly or unknowingly sees people as little more than resources to be managed for a profit.
But the local food movement with its emphasis on knowing your farmer, self-regulation, rediscovering traditions, and consumer-farmer partnerships is changing all this. The FDA's problem is there isn't any room or need for them in the new paradigm.
If one accepts the authenticity of the Old and New Testaments then it appears that there are two covenants that we have to grapple with and chose between, hence the scenario we often find ourselves in of trying to mix new wine into old wine skins. Christ told us in more ways then one that this was a mistake and that everything he was offering us would be spoiled if we attempted to follow both covenants.
The punitive regulations we are confronted with are merely another form of works that man partakes of in order to achieve some false sense of justice or security, failing to realize that true justice and real security can only be achieved through understanding, forgiveness and respect.
Lykke
You state in the previous post, but in my family I was lucky to have the influence of generations of moms and grandmas and great-grandmas and aunts….they all made us kids wash-up after playing with the farm animals.
My mother and grandmothers did so as well, however that didnt stop us kids from pulling a carrot out of the ground, wiping it on our pants and eating it. Nor did it stop us from picking an apple off the ground and eating it, or going for a dip in the pond where the horses and cattle drank. Do you really believe that washing a carrot with water protects you? Or do you dip it in chlorine after and then peal it?
Ken Conrad
I've heard the raw milk bill is close to being submitted to the Wisconsin legislature, just wondering if we could read it on this blog first, so producers, consumers and advocates alike can see what they are getting for their financial support? Instead of being shocked and dismayed later!
If you are working for us it shouldn't matter, but if you are working for the establishment, it might be a big problem
Like I had mentioned on a previous post, Wisconsin is the template for raw milk and NAIS.
I'm sure other people are curious, too.
the food laws given to that nation are part of a strategy for separating them from the other families on the planet, so as to produce a specific outcome : a perfect Lamb. That nation immediately broke that marriage Covenant. But the bigger picture sees the same God returning with a different name, and, when the divorcee = the Bride of Christ = is thoroughly chastened from her adulterous ways, cleansed, He marries her anew, perfecting the Covenant.
With very rare exception, the Campaign for REAL MILK is made up of white Christians, motivated by the sense that we are entitled to milk and honey. As we re-awaken to our national heritage the food laws for Israel – whom we are – is one of the ways America differentiates itself from the anti-Christ world government. For which the people running that effort, hate us. Thus, what seems to so simple and banal … just getting the food you prefer …is a battlefront in the most ancient religious war
In answer to your question. I have already been visited by the DHHS ie FDA and there was mutual respect and no problems. The problem is with the national DC culture and political agendas. There appears to be few if any issues when the FDA actually visits. There is a world of difference between local inspectors and national political voices at the FDA. One has an agenda and the FDA worker bees work in CA reality and know that OPDC operates legally and safely. I speak long and hard about the FDA here and elsewhere. But my goal is eventually to open up bridges of new understanding. This takes time and proving that RAMP works and markets have grown to the tipping point
Thats the plan , I have respect and appreciation for the local DHHS or CDFA or FDA inspectors doing their jobs. As long as they are doing their jobs and not hurting raw milk. If they are helping raw milk and OPDC. More power them. I am always open to things that make me better and safer.
Mark
Mark
Rather than a "religious war" I find it simpler and more compelling to see it as a corporate war — corporate "food" producers have bought the government regulators and are using them to prevent small producers from raising the real, actual, nutrient-dense food that they see as a threat to their total market dominance.
See also, "Cornell Scientists Print The Future Of Food "
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2010/122710-cornell-scientists-print-the-future.html
It is a philosophy diametrically opposed to Christianity. God has granted governments with very limited authority over the lives of humans, reserving much of it for Himself or granting it to the Church or to us personally. But the present governments of this world do not recognize God nor fear Him and abuse their authority, conspiring to take control over human lives away from others. For this reason the Christian must be careful about when they bend the knee to governments.
Nor is it wise from an earthly point of view to give control of the food system over to totalitarians. For they are often responsible for the murder of those they control, often by way of famine.