Roy Costa, food safety consultantThe Washington rally in support of Amish farmer Dan Allgyer has rekindled media interest in raw milk. There were well over a dozen media reports on the rally, and more articles and radio-television discussions about raw milk are in the offing.
But in addition, there has been an uptick in discussion among professional food safety types. These are the public health and agriculture department professionals who generally don’t like to have their discussions in any kind of public arena. But they absolutely took notice of what went on in Washington on Monday.
What really stuck in their craw was a statement by Sally Fallon, head of the Weston A. Price Foundation, in her rally speech that raw milk is a “magic food.” Food safety lawyer Bill Marler had fun with that: “‘Magic food,’ Really? Sally, you need to ‘lawyer-up.’ The next family who relies on your words, and the Foundation’s website, and their kid becomes ill after drinking raw milk, you will have a problem.”
Marler’s observation on Sally Fallon led to further discussion among several food safety professionals on a listserve known as Foodsafe, which came my way via Google Alert. The most intriguing observations came from Roy Costa, a food safety consultant and expert witness in court suits against food producers. He has the professional title of “Registered Sanitarian”, which is a public health designation for those specializing in environmental health.
He made the observation that “raw milk is the most complicated unresolved issue in public health today.” Lots of people would agree with him there.
But when you get into specifics, you discover just how wide the gulf really is. I don’t mean to single Costa out, since I sense his view isn’t that different from many of his colleagues–he just happened to be open about his rationale in a semi-public forum. Here are some of the reasons he identified for why raw milk safety is unresolved:
* There is “no validated method of producing clean raw milk…” Why is that? It wouldn’t be difficult to find a half dozen or more being used by dairy farmers around the country producing top quality safe milk, except the opponents haven’t wanted to explore the options, presumably for fear some might “work.”
* I almost hate to provide his idea about what could be “a validated method.” He says: “There needs to be a very stringent sanitary production method to keep feces out of raw milk. One would have to physically isolate the cow’s vital parts and create a sterile field during milking, and then 3-A standards need development for processing. No one is talking like this. It sounds funny, but this might be achievable with some experimentation and innovation.” Some kind of special cow diaper kit perhaps? Yes, this is a problem area.
* He suggested raw milk advocates are beyond reasonable discussion because they “believe (pathogens) are good for you–it makes us healthy…” Yes, some believe that, just as some in Costa’s line of work believe most food should be irradiated, but it’s far from a universal view.
* He argued that for raw milk advocates, “it’s all about politics and economics, not public health…” Once again, a blanket statement that doesn’t include everyone.
* Addressing the economic incentive matter, he pointed out the very real problem conventional dairies have: “I have been arguing for addressing the economic incentive that drives dairy farmers in this direction [producing raw milk]. The big CO-OP dairies have punished the small dairy. It now takes over 200 head to break even, 400 head to make a small income. Economies of scale have pushed the independent dairy farmer to the brink. We need a new economic model for sure, but raw milk is just not acceptable as a commodity sitting on the shelf at Publix or Wal-Mart.”
I’m not sure who’s arguing for putting raw milk on the shelf at Publix or Wal-Mart–in the Allyer case we’re talking about distributing it from private homes to dues-paying club members. And how long are dairy farmers supposed to wait for “a new economic model”? Each day, some number go out of business–nearly 90% have fallen by the wayside since 1970–so the clock has been ticking for a good while now.
It’s almost as if people like Costa are living on a different planet than those of us seeking out raw milk and other nutrient-dense food. I like to be optimistic in seeing an eventual accommodation on raw milk and other related food safety matters. Clearly, there’s a long road to walk toward any kind of accommodation on this matter, and the longer it is put off, the more difficult that road becomes.
Must not be reading the comments section. Those whose goal is to 'mainstream' raw milk, and those who advocate large multi hundred cow, factory raw milk farms, aren't the ones who believe that raw milk is better directly marketed…..Indeed…there are many on this blog who are sure who is advocating for this.
Those that enter the raw milk market purely for economic reasons are the biggest threat to said market.
Something tells me that things are going to have to get far uglier with the authorities…before things get better for raw milk.
How about the processed frozen phood "healthy choice" ? Can you pronounce and state what all the chemicals are? He should go after those companies that are targeting poor little children and unsuspecting public with the misleading/false advertizing. What a bunch of BS. If he and others of his ilk were so concerned, they'd go after all the entities who "harm" others with the "poison" foods.
"* There is "no validated method of producing clean raw milk…" It appears there is no validated method of producing clean pasturized milk; if there was, then those who become ill and those who have died from the pasturized dairy would not have happened…..
"a validated method." Shouldn't his "method" apply to ALL dairies to include those huge confined dairies who produce more pathogens (in the animals,environment) than any small farmer?
"it's all about politics and economics, not public health…" How about freedom of choice? Or pandering to big ag?
I wouldn't think of buying raw milk (or any other foods) at Publix or walmart. (shuddering)
However.
Just because a cross section of manure has been looked at does not mean all manure will cause problems if ingested or happens to get into milk.
The logs if pathogenetic material it would take to overwelm a healthy product is massive.
I am in no way suggesting that we injest this material to inncoulate ourselves, as Mr. Costa suggests we "all' do.
However excessive moisture in manure is a problem directly related to an unbalanced diet which can lead to an unbalanced system in a dairy animal which we do know can lead to pathogenetic presence if cronic.
Yes we can do it on grass or high concentrates,the only difference is we get different bugs that can harm humans.
The food safety realm is very much a pinpoint process, while good health in soil, forage, food and humans is a holistic aspect.
There are scoring systems one can use to evalute dirty animals as they come in to get milked, usually used to adjust bedding practices. However no bedding our pasture loafing areas will overcome the mess created by a poorly balanced diet. And while we are learning what consitutes a balanced diet to the needs of the animals and not emotional content of the consumer, good and commonly used milking prep pre and post milking, must be implemented.
At some point in the future we will have the knowledge that Mr. Costa was so kind to point out does not exist and no one in the food safety realm wants to look at.
There is not much money in prevention for our food safety experts.
It is however key to the understanding of our charges and economic viability on the farm.
Tim Wightman
Is it possible to test milk for the level of cow nutrition and mineral balance? Could these soil tests that Midwestern Bio-Ag does be adjusted for testing milk?
We talk about Standard Plate Counts and all that stuff, which are important. But I am also interested in laboratory methods that would provide a more holistic evaluation.
Even among those who feel raw milk can be commercialized on the order of what Organic Pastures and a few others have done, it's difficult to imagine raw milk on the shelves of mass retailers like Public or WalMart. Heck, Whole Foods refuses to carry it. Perhaps if raw milk continues to grow in popularity by leaps and bounds, we'll see so many consumers demanding it that the huge retailers decide to provide it, but I suspect we are many years away from that.
David
#1) The purpose of the mainstream media is to:
A) Keep you informed.
B) Feed you misinformation while keeping you distracted from the real issues our world is facing.
#2) Social Security is:
A) A financial safety net that makes sure people have a retirement income.
B) A government-run Ponzi scheme that requires more and more people to keep paying in just to stay afloat and will ultimately collapse into total bankruptcy.
#3) The fluoride dripped into municipal water supplies is:
A) A naturally-occurring mineral.
B) An industrial chemical waste byproduct.
#4) When you donate money to find the cure for cancer, that money goes:
A) To fund research programs that assess actual cancer cures for the purpose of freely sharing them with the public.
B) To fund mammogram campaigns that actually irradiate women's breasts, causing the very cancers that earn huge profits for the cancer treatment industry.
#5) The national debt is:
A) Under control and will be paid off in a few years.
B) Out of control and will spiral into a runaway debt collapse.
#6) GMOs will:
A) Feed the world and prevent starvation.
B) Threaten the future of life on our planet through genetic contamination and widespread crop failures.
#7) The FDA protects:
A) The people from dangerous medicines.
B) The financial interests of the drug companies.
#8) The EPA's real agenda is to:
A) Protect the environment.
B) Protect the financial interests of the chemical companies whose toxic products destroy the environment.
#9) The Federal Reserve functions to:
A) Stabilize the economy and keep America strong.
B) Loot the economy and control America's economy for the interests of the few.
#10) The purpose of TSA checkpoints at airports is to:
A) Keep air passengers safe and secure.
B) Indoctrinate Americans into surrendering to police state invasions of their privacy.
#11) The practical function of the U.S. Supreme Court is to:
A) Protect the constitutional rights of the citizens.
B) Legitimize federal tyranny over the People by ignoring the Constitution and its Bill of Rights.
#12) Vaccines are based on:
A) Gold standard science that conclusively proves their safety and effectiveness.
B) Quackery and fraud combined with a persistent medical mythology that utterly lacks a factual basis.
#13) Herbs and superfoods:
A) Are medically useless and cannot treat, prevent or cure any disease.
B) Contain powerful plant-based medicines that can help reverse and prevent disease.
#14) In Libya, Afghanistan and Iraq, America:
A) Led a humanitarian effort to save innocent people from tyranny.
B) Waged an illegal imperialist war to occupy foreign nations and control their oil.
#15) The U.S. Bill of Rights:
A) Grants you rights and freedoms.
B) Merely acknowledges the rights and freedoms you already possess.
To score your Sheeple Quiz, simply count the number of times you answered "A" to the questions above.
If you answered "A" 10 times or more…
You are a total news-watching, gullible fairytale swallowing Sheeple! Be sure to keep taking those medications and watching more network news. Don't bother thinking for yourself because you seem to be incapable of accomplishing that.
If you answered "A" fewer than 10 times…
You are sadly Sheeple-minded but there is hope for your rescue. Learn more about the world around you and train yourself to think critically so you can depart from the herd mentality.
If you answered "A" fewer than 5 times…
You are an unusually intelligent free-minded thinker who questions the world around you and doesn't buy into the usual propaganda. You still got suckered on a few items, so there's more yet to learn. But you're on the right track!
If you answered "A" exactly zero times…
You are the complete opposite of a Sheeple. You're independent minded, well informed and probably a regular reader of NaturalNews.com. Stay on track and question events in the world around you. Eat more superfoods to maintain your healthy immune system and cognitive function. Avoid the toxic chemicals in foods, medicines and lawn care products. Keep reading the alternative press and voice your intelligent views to others willing to listen. (But don't waste your time on those who aren't.)
The consultant you write about is from Mars….raw milk for humans is from Venus. His paycheck depends on never visiting OPDC and reading Dr. Ron Hulls/ McAfee/ Dr.Beals/ Dr. Berge- RAMP program and making inquiries. That would create such a problem for him that he may not ever get hired again. Kind of like our friend Dr. Mike Payne at WIFFSS at UC Davis. He does and says all the things that big dairy and the FDA want to say all in the name of science,….they are the mouth pieces for the FDA and FOOD INC.
The fact of the matter is this.
Manure from cows on open sun drenched pasture fed conditions and given no antibiotics is entirely different than PMO CAFO FDA approved NCIMS systems. The resulting raw milk produced under these two different systems are worlds ( planets ) apart. especially when food safety programs are utilized. No diapers are needed….sorry Mr. HACCP Sterile Butt.
Trying to reconcile the differences between Mars and Venus is not possible with out a different mind set and intent.
Let the conflict continue. Let the Planet Venus based Moms continue to share their experiences of raw milk….let the Martian idiots continue to scratch their cone shaped heads and wonder why they can not sell dead milk. Let the Martians continue to wonder why it is that no body wants to drink Martian Milk….when their markets are dead and gone….they will maybe realize that the science at the NIH and the Human Biome project and all the work done by Bonnie Bassler PhD and others really does matter….They will then realize that this solid science is really science and it is not possible to just spend money on milk mustaches to make lactose intolerance or milk allergies go away. We are feeding real people with food here…This is not a contest of who can lie better to a consumer. Consumers do their own research. It is called "attempts at eating". They dollar vote to show the results.
Ever wonder why GOT MILK? and or PMO CAFO consultants always look horrible. They are nearly always fat and pudgy and look like the products they defend. Kind of telling isn't it?
As far as Sally Fallon and Magic Food….give her a break. She was talking to kids and moms. She was describing the wonders of how raw milk works magic on immune systems. She was describing what we all know to be true in our experiences of Raw Milk….
We all know that when the immune system works it seems like magic and in todays world of medical toxicity…it is regarded as magic when a food so wonderful can keep asthma, IBS, lactose intolerance etc…from occuring and this all happens with out side effects or going to a doctor that nearly always pushes an antibiotic bomb on the family….
This is a fight….expect the enemy to be cruel, mean spirited and disinterested in learning. Their very paychecks depend on it….
My advice. Serve the moms with clean safe raw milk. Embrace our own safety programs and build market. When we are very big and strong and our kids and consumers are big and strong….
The war will be won. Ignorring the PMO CAFO NCIMS FDA asses ( and their consultants ) as they nay-say along the way. Well…that takes descipline….
Stick with the Venetians….Martians are pretty much unteachable.
Mark
I do not perceive the meaning of the following passages: The logs if pathogenic material Yes we can do it on grass pinpoint process/holistic aspect. no bedding our pasture loafing areas the needs of the animals and not emotional content of the consumer,
Thanks,
Mr. J. Ingvar Odegaard
I just got suckered into a presentation ( I am over generous I think ) and wow did I visit a Jamie Oliver reality ADHD immune depression and asthmatic hell hole. I definitely learned much more than those that I attempted to teach. I will now do a much better job of vetting my presentations.
A Girls Scouts Mom was so impressed with our brochures and information that she invited me to attend and speak with her class. I thought that would be great. Seems like a great idea…at least I thought.
But…..what really happened was far from great. The mom and teacher was ADHD and the class was all drinking Coca Cola and eating Cheetos yellow number 4 and 6 nitrate puffed GMO diabetes makers. It was some form of mayhem….
I could not teach them anything. There was not one mind present to listen. It was a disaster….I could not find the words to their language. They were addicted, asthmatic, obese, missing teeth, thoughtless…robots of US FOOD INC creation. This was not a special ED class and they rode on normal busses not the short ones. This was a normal after school class that was there to care for kids.
I guess in the Karmal count world….this was selfless work and this work was a lesson for me not them. I now know how Jamie Oliver feels.
Brothers and sisters we are in a serious world of hurt….our next generations are in very very deep trouble. The norm is now swung to the far far extreme and can not be recognized. Crime….it will go nuts because their minds are absent reality and morals are who knows what???. When the gut is gone the mind is gone.
God Bless….Magic Milk and WAP and Sally Fallon.
Bill Marler….is there a way to sue for treason against nutrition and the health of our children?
This is tragic. There is no solution to this. Big Money has these kids in an economic, addicted choke hold. Wow….I am speechless.
I did get the entire room to drink a cup of raw milk and take home some fliers. This was for me not them….
What a mess…..FOOD INC serves Nasdaq….not people. When greed drives culture….we are done.
Mark
My mind was so deep in Coca Cola Cheetos disbelief. The teacher had requested me to feed them and teach them raw milk and I did. What difference would it make? Our products are consumed by 50,000 people each week. CP you are from Mars. You do not understand this movement. You can not concieve of clean raw milk or a RAMP program that gives a high level of confidence of safety. This is not part of your language or lexicon.
I do not serve you or your agenda. I serve humanity.
If you were such a concerned person you would join me in outrage of the care feeding of the next generation. Instead you probably helped send Jamie Oliver home to EU.
Were is your moral center. What drives you….?
Mark
Mark
I do think that mass-produced "raw" milk will be sold at retailers like Wal-Mart, just as "organic" milk is today. This is where the Koch Brother's micro-filtration membrane technology comes into play — pasteurizing milk without heating it, so that they can call it "raw." Its not the same thing, of course, but they will try to market it as such:
http://www.kochmembrane.com/sep_mf.html
That is why I think it is very important that we work hard now to establish standards for the production of raw milk, so that we can ensure that only sustainable pasture-based farms are producing real certified raw milk.
California Code of Regulations, Title 17, S 17:11380. Required Health Warning on Labels of Raw Milk and Raw Milk Products.
(a) Raw Milk and raw milk products shall bear the following warning on the principal display panel or panels of the label:
WARNING
Raw (unpasteurized) milk and raw milk dairy products may contain disease-causing micro-organisms. Persons at highest risk of disease from these organisms include newborns and infants; the elderly; pregnant women; those taking corticosteroids, antibiotics or antacids; and those having chronic illnesses or other conditions that weaken their immunity.
MW
Most importantly. Where are the warnings on Cheetos with GMO, MSG and more than 80 ingredients that can not be pronounced? I had the kids try to read the ingredient list…no one could not even the teacher.
Where are the warnings on Coca Cola ??? Guaranteed to dissolve your teeth, dissolve your gut, kill off intestinal villi and reek havock on the brain via gut mediation.
Riddle me that CP. Where is the moral and ethical center in America? Ok to kill our kids with Coca Cola and Cheetos? CP what say you?
Mark
Would you not allow kids in an after school program to make and drink fresh squeezed orange juice?..
Why do you select raw milk over other raw produce or raw juice?
Better call Marler and sue me. Just as a precaution. Kind of like the FDA raid on Dan Allygers. He made no one sick but got sued by the FDA.
If there was liability it was on the teacher. She invited me.
Mark
Someday there may be warning labels and bans on the products you express concern about (indeed, some cities have enacted bans against sodas and toys in kid fast food meals). But, that doesn't excuse the fact that you did not inform the parents about the warning label on your product before giving it to their children.
MW
These kids (and others) are most likely bombarded more so with these daily toxins then they are raw milk. How do they expect to have credibility when they do not speak out for all the toxins? They only single out raw milk. The coke and cheetos are far more toxic than Mark's raw milk. Why doesn't the processed/chemically laden foods carry a "warning label? Kids and adults consume far more toxic through that than raw milk in America…..
Depending on the reservation, the kids probably have been drinking raw milk since they were babies. Diabetes is rampant in the Native American population, (along with ETOH,drug abuse and other forms of abuse.)
http://diabetesinformationhub.com/WhatCausesDiabetes.php
causes of diabetes:
Inherited Traits:
Age : Increased age-this was true yrs ago, now increased kids with DM
**Poor Diet (Malnutrition Related Diabetes) : Improper nutrition, low protein and fiber intake, high intake of refined products are the expected reasons for developing diabetes.
**Obesity and Fat Distribution : Being overweight means increased insulin resistance, that is if body fat is more than 30%, BMI 25+,
**Sedentary Lifestyle : People with sedentary lifestyle are more prone to diabetes, when compared to those who exercise thrice a week, are at low risk of falling prey to diabetes.
**Stress : Either physical injury or emotional disturbance is frequently blamed as the initial cause of the disease. Any disturbance in Cortiosteroid or ACTH therapy may lead to clinical signs of the disease.
**Drug Induced: Clozapine (Clozaril), olanzapine (Zyprexa), risperidone (Risperdal), quetiapine (Seroquel) and ziprasidone (Geodon) are known to induce this lethal disease.
**Infection : Some of the strephylococci is suppose to be responsible factor for infection in pancreas.
**Hypertension : It had been reported in many studies that there is direct relation between high systolic pressure and diabetes.(kids today have HTN)
**Serum lipids and lipoproteins : High triglyceride and cholesterol level in the blood is related to high blood sugars, in some cases it has been studied that risk is involved even with low HDL levels in circulating blood. (diet induced)
Sylvia….where is the LIKE button on these comments! Loved yours too. BUT when you mentioned those other "foods" you need to call them PHOODS (phony food) because they are not FOOD!
Milky Way said "Raw (unpasteurized) milk and raw milk dairy products may contain disease-causing micro-organisms. Persons at highest risk of disease from these organisms include newborns and infants; the elderly; pregnant women; those taking corticosteroids, antibiotics or antacids; and those having chronic illnesses or other conditions that weaken their immunity."
I could say the same thing about all the PHOODS on the market (and what the kids in the class were eating…Cheetos and drinking soda)! They cause health problems and contain disease causing toxins and chemicals. Persons at highest risk of disease from these PHOODS include ALL humans and cause the chronic illnesses and other conditions and weaken their immune systems!
Grass fed and organic Raw Milk (like OPDC and many others) is FOOD – REAL FOOD!
Hey lawyers – how about all the pharmaceuticals out there that can "cause death" – oh just a side affect. Lawyers and "phood safety" people are just ponzies in the hands of big ag, big corporate greed and the FDA!
You are loved!
nancy
I awoke in a learning mode. Please show me the law that says I must advise a parent that raw milk will be provided to them?
I do not disagree that perhaps your idea is good policy. But it is not illegal. There is no law. If a kid got sick from my raw milk, then providing raw milk would increase the liability umbrella to the institution. Not OPDC. The liability always rests on OPDC for true illness. No escaping that. Notification of a parent does not avoid liability.
CP this is a brave new world and it is a battle over the education of our next generation. Not the intentional exploitation of it. Coca Cola should be regulated just like alcohol. Adults only. Kids are dying from it. Diabetes is a killer. Kids should only eat whole foods. If a parent wants to feed a highly processed food….ok. It is a free country. But the foundation of our culture must be changed to good before bad and not vice versa.
Last night on American Idol the true American Idol in bright red Coca Cola red sat on the judges table and stood larger than life on the huge screen at each extra moment.
Dr. Robert Lustig, of "Sugar: The Bitter Truth" has said the same thing, and I could not be more strongly opposed. Metabolic syndrome is healthier than fascism, and everyone gets to go to hell in their own go-cart. You can control what you put in your own mouth — and your childrens' mouths, until they emancipate or reach the age of majority in your jurisdiction — and you can attempt to educate others on what they shouldn't put in their mouths, at least until they stop inviting you to their parties. But when no crime has been committed, and you still reach for the gun of the law, then you are the criminal.
Prohibition is not utilitarian — it only "works" if your goal is to kidnap and steal from peaceful, honest people, and to create employment for sociopaths. And prohibition is not moral — it is wrong. A moral goal would be to eliminate all food subsidies: Equal rights for all, special privileges for none.
And please think twice before you respond, "I don't want to prohibit, just regulate!" Because the state is a ratchet that only tightens one way.
Bill
In answer to your question no the soil tests cannot be modified for milk.
Milk does have it own tests related to mineral content and total enzyme and I beleive lipid profile, but no one lab does them all, and some tests have to be performed in the U.K.
I think Mark McAffee has mentioned Labs that have the ability to test for certian label required profiles but that does not really get us close to quality.
If one were to do it properly, we would have to test many farms for a base line on quality and then do tests for specific practices to determine which is a more effecient practice to create the best milk possible against the current base line determination.
However, we do have secondary results than can give us a glimps into the quality of milk given herd profiles, manure scores, body scores, pahtogen testing of manure and milk,bull calf to heifer calf ratios, days in milk, mortality rates in calves and cows, times bred to conception, cull rates and what for, feed to milk ratios, acres needed to per animal for feed intake, in addition to the simple milk tests of SCC, mastitis types and presence, udder health and those sorts of things. Along with cheese yeild, total solids ect ect..
Mr Odegaard.
"Logs" is short for number of pathogenetic organisims in a ML or other like amount
the grass reference is that you can have an unbalanced ration(total feed intake) to a milk animal on grass or concentrated feed.
Pinpoint refers to out comes not causes when looking at a food borne illness outbreak.
If a producers of raw milk gets someone sick from a raw product, the last thing I will look at is simply the milking practices or sterility in the milking area. I would use a whole farm holisitic view point and evaluate everything that farm does rather than just the end process.
The bedding issue, you can bed on the hour or keep your dairy animals outside at all times but it does not make up for the mess one has when dairy animals are on a unbalanced diet too high in incomplete proteins which come from unbalanced soil creating unbalanced forage, which increases the chance of creating pathogenetic organisims, as well as a higher incidence of manure getting where we do not want it.
Meeting the need of the animals verses the emotional needs of the consumer.
This is where pressure from the consumer in their mistaken or lack of understanding of dairy animal health creates a situation that may increase and or cause a producer to create an unsafe environment for the production of raw milk and raw milk products.
Our society as a whole has lost touch with the needs of the soil and animals in our care and our place in the holistic view of our environment. This unfortuneate fact is prevelent in a majority of our producers who we depend on for our nutrition in the local food movement.
There exists an understanding that grass or other green forage is the only traditional food dairy animals need. We see extreme pressrue from consumers demading a grtass based product form soil that is no longer in balance, plants that are no longer native to the original balance, nor genetics in the dairy animals that are forced in many instances to starve and die off to a percoived natural balance to the pethetic soil we currently have or feel is a resemblence to the natural environment.
This in most cases cannot be further from the truth. Products from these stressed situations coupled with a lack of understanding the increased risk from decades of inbalance and increase in pahtogenetic organisims hold in our environment and in our food production system and we have a significant chance something will go wrong.
Just because the very books that consumers are reading are the very one that producers refeence to meet a demand does not make it correct assumption.
We must begin to chart our actual production quality levels and not depend on emotion to gauge our comfort level which to this point is stuck on stupid and total fixated on process not on the principals of soil and animal health.
No amount of money or pressure on a producer will allow human health to regenerate if we are ingorant of what it take to feed and sustain that which feed us.
It is a inconvenent truth that these markers and principals do take time to express themselves as they are understood.
They are present we just have to look and learn the early signs of degredation. To add a few zeros to the price or ignore the farmers plea to feed his animals a balanced diet is only kicking a can down the road on which the bridge has been out for a few decades.
Mr Costa is correct in his pinpoint assesment. He is reacting to our consumer inability to pony up to responsibility, and its his job to keep you alive.
Its my job to give you another option, and give you the markers to understand everyones role in the bigger scheme of things as we all become involved in the post consumer society.
Yes it has its own cost, but the rewards are far greater than we have yet to imagine.
Tim Wightman
One of the biggest themes at the rally we held Monday was "food and farm FREEDOM", and I would say that means freedom of choice in how you obtain your milk, as well. I personally would prefer to obtain my milk directly, because a direct relationship with my farmer is so important to me, but for others this doesn't matter so much. If they would like to obtain their milk through "commercial" avenues, good for them.
I doubt we'd ever see fresh milk on Wal-Mart shelves because of distribution issues. Most large scale retailers require food to be delivered to a central warehouse before it is sent out to individual stores, and of course the whole point of fresh milk is to drink it while it is fresh, not to wait three weeks while it's transported all over the damn country. This is changing somewhat with the greater demand for local food, but I'd still think fresh milk will always do better in small, independently owned retailers that buy locally!
Thank you so very much.
Ingvar
What we have now is a definition of milk and strict standards enforced by the state or federal government.That is why you don't have access to your milk.What I would rather see is for the state and federal government to stay out of private arrangements like your food buying club and let everyone find the food they want that fits there own standards.That is the danger that a National certification program presents.Once a National standard is accepted by enough farms,the farms that can't live by those standards will be marginalized and made illegal.Some of us see the movement towards standards as the move that divides those who want to consume and produce raw milk.Standards might actually restrict access to the raw milk that I prefer,because they will undoubtedly favor the bigger farms(costly, meaningless testing will drive out small farmers that are just beginning).My experience is that many small farms will give us both widespread availability and high quality.
Personally, my biggest contention with Coke is that they KILL trade unionists in Colombia:
http://killercoke.org/
Coca-Cola corporation should be completely abolished. Period. End of story. It is guilty of murder — its corporate charter should be revoked. No prohibition is neccessary.
So how well did that turn out for the organic folks? Not so well huh? Any time you have a centralization of power or money there is corruption. Your effort is doomed to failure.
And besides, whats to stop non-sustainable farms from making their own 'certified' raw milk? After all, we keep being told this is about safety right? Nothing to stop them, unless you're going to cut a deal with government to one way or another to legalize just YOUR certification.
Certifications and labels are only useful when you are part of a commodity chain and the consumer has no relationship with the farmer, and even then they are of questionable utility.
But the last thing we want is commoditization of raw milk. The future of sustainable farming and sustainable food systems rests in farmers and consumers who have a direct connection to one another and whose dollars aren't sucked out of the economy by the middlemen. Anything such as certification that enables commoditization is in the long term worst interest of both consumers and farmers. We've already been down this road and we don't want to go there.
Of course 3rd party certification does another thing. It puts the consumers trust in the certification brand and not the farm itself. In other words, it gets in the way of the consumer-farmer relationship, distancing it, and the certifying agency starts to become the owner of the consumer and comes into position to amass wealth and power as gatekeeper, enforcer, fee collector, and spokesperson. Again, we've already been down this road and we don't want to go there.
One minor complication with your theory there.
Wisconsin would not be the dairy state if it wasn't for the "middlemen" you lament — the cheese makers. 90% of Wisconsin milk goes into cheese or butter, and for good reason. Cheese is a more flavorful and more durable way to deliver the nutrients in milk.
Wisconsin also has more small dairy farms than any other state in the U.S. Southwestern Wisconsin, in particular is a hotbed for organic agriculture, including organic dairy. Vernon County has more organic farms than any other county in the U.S.
Try and be a fulltime dairy farmer and a fulltime cheese maker — it doesn't work. Both are 70+ hour a week jobs.
I'm not trying to justify all the corruption and swindling that goes on in the dairy processing industry. I'm just saying that the "middle men" do have a role to play here. Cheese making is a entire art and science in itself, that one could spend a lifetime mastering.
Thank you for explaining the holistic approach to food safety and conditions. It is something missing in the dialogue. Miguel touches on this subject often.
The operative word is "CONDITIONS". All of the conditions. Not just the milking and cleaning of the udders. We need to be considering all of the conditions from Grass to Glass.
This is a huge thing and needs a serious discussion. Safe food comes from m conditions that are in harmony.
Testing only confirms that harmony and biologically healthy and diverse competitive conditions do exist.
RAWMI and RAMP are all about this….that is what we do at OPDC and it fits the paradigm of current University thought and also is in alignment with natural systems.
Let me state this one more time. The proposed RAWMI organization will provide tools for farmers to better feed the nation. If that is hand miling three cows or machine milking 200, both need a size and risk appropriate risk management program. All of us need a plan.
RAWMI provides a place to show the world that plan and its successes. Your consumers need to see it and you should be very proud of it. You need the very best resources to develop that RAMP plan. RMAC does much of this already.
RAWMI also allows a place for all the farmers to send their testimonials from their consumers. Currently, farmers can not post medical claim based testimonials on their websites. RAWMI can do this for them.
If you are against any sort of common safety plan development and making raw milk a serious national food for all of us…then RAWMI is not for you and you are not for RAWMI.
If you think that feeding your neighbors with raw milk is the largest sized distribution that raw milk can have. RAWMI is not for you.
RAWMI is for everyone. That means 1 cow or 500 cows. RAWMI is for serious managers and the farmer who literally loves his consumer. RAWMI is not a segway to FDA control. RAWMI is a pathway to self control and freedome from an FDA raid with a Marler lawsuit.
Freedom in the raw milk markets does not come from ultra liberatarian ideologies. All of that goes out the window when you make someone sick.
Freedom in the raw milk markets comes from delicious safe raw milk, healthy happy babies with out snotty noses or ear infections. Freedom in the raw milk market comes from the strength of many doing raw milk very well and kicking the FDA's CAFO PMO Butt when the truth of pasteurization comes through. Freedom comes from farmers being paid well for their efforts. Raw Milk will not become a commodity market, because of the individual farmers requirements and efforts. Raw Milk can not sit on a Walmart or Costco warehouse shelf….fear not. Raw Milk is deeply American and the original Organic. Not taking it away from the hard working farmer and his consumer.
That is freedom.
More to come…..
Mark
School Gardening Movement Takes off in Madison
http://www.thedailypage.com/isthmus/article.php?article=33526&sid=668a1e3e352342ca346cfb0ce13a2747
When you say that Indian kids on a reservation drink raw milk from a young age….???
That is a foreign concept to me. Was this a typo???
In my experience American Indian children with a few exceptions are some of the most poorly fed and nourished children in our country. They drink pepsi and Coke like water and eat white mans foods that are highly processed. As they age alcohol is the next disaster.
Please confirm your error or explain this new piece of data
Mark
Never mind that the U.S. Federal government has broken every single treaty it has ever signed with a sovereign native American nation. Never mind that the European colonialization of the Americas was the largest genocide in human history — claiming more lives than the Holocaust and Stalin's gulags put together.
It is their own fault that they are sick from the overprocessed foods… right folks? (Can you detect the saracasm?)
No but seriously. Mark, it is great that are you bringing them good nutrient-dense food. Ultimately, though, we must re-learn the traditional native wisdom that has been lost, and re-apply this wisdom to our own modern paradigm.
Here is an interesting project from Northern Wisconsin, that promotes food soveriegnty of Native Americans. Definetly worth supporting. This is the best wild rice you've ever had!
Real Wild Rice Grown Naturally Harvested By Canoe In WI and MN:
http://www.indianwildrice.com/?gclid=CN6a2_Cy-KgCFcW5KgodoyewUA
http://biggovernment.com/bmccarty/2011/05/20/family-facing-4-million-in-fines-for-selling-bunnies/
"Depending on the reservation, the kids probably have been drinking raw milk since they were babies."
Their diets do tend to be very poor, as I said, depending of the reservation, they may have access to raw milk goat/sheep/cow milk….
http://buffalopost.net/?p=14152 "Many tribal members were raised on raw milk"
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:-e4ZUx1qycoJ:www.ird.org/who/PDFs/Companion%2520-%2520Indian%2520Health%2520Report.pdf+raw+dairy+consumption+on+indian+reservations&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiwFnE9eBsSHLm0l2fZbogYWMtAyRHgSfv3BupRT4EKf-uII_JsBs07q7tAT5Ky1BaxfuCfjJWendqZ4dCx3od0lb6eb0fBa3xYGZqdkd-P6DOLwICRqhzyWxpPTY5fT8O8bT4N&sig=AHIEtbSodHmCVUHp0I9hs7bVKlZnsOwJnw
What the govt feeds the natives and contributes to the extermination……
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1448162/ "regular raw milk consumption has been shown to cause an elevated antiC jejuni antibody titer that protects against symptomatic infection."
I remember standing in the commodities line with my grandma in Okla, she got her block of 'cheese', powdered milk,beans,maybe rice and flour.. The native children drank raw milk, my uncle had a cow, another had goats.
For Native Americans: Diabetes was "uncommon" prior to WWII, has grown at a rate of 234% higher than other US ethnic groups. Why is that? Perhaps it's the foods/phoods that people are consuming, and toxic environments that we live in.
I'll get to the point here. While I believe in the spirit of what Mr' Wrightman wants to accomplish, it seems like he is doing the very thing he abhors. He doesn't like consumers to dictate to him how he should raise and feed his animals ( I assume the consumer mantra is for "100% grass-fed), but he would like to presume to tell other farmers how they should go about producing their raw milk on their farms. Guidelines would be so much more welcome. I won't even go into the logistic can of worms that enforcing and inspecting these standards would open up.
Mr. Anderson:
Cheesemakers are not middle men. They are consumers. They don't have check-offs where they keep some of your revenue for the "Got Milk?" ads. I think it's wonderful that you know so much about cheesemaking. Your enthusiasm is very endearing – and I mean that sincerely. All the same, as a consumer I would not wish you to tell me how to produce my milk any more than Mr. Wightman wants to hear from a consumer how to feed his cows. Advice from both you would be much valued, however.
In Wisconsin, the milk check-off go towards marketing cheese. The Wisconsin Milk Marketing Board focuses almost exclusively on cheese.
Cheese makers are definetly part of the production system. They are consumers in the same sense that a dairy farmer is. They consume their own product (I've never heard of a vegan cheese maker…) but a vast majority of the cheese they produce is sold.
In all seriousness, though, its the cows who are the real producers. Without the cows, we would be nothing!
How much better for the farmer to sell milk directly to the consumer, whether milk-drinker or cheesemaker… but this is what the dairy industry middlemen do NOT want.
Just for the record, Mark is not a middleman since he produces his own milk; the stores he sells to are, however.
"Try and be a fulltime dairy farmer and a fulltime cheese maker — it doesn't work. Both are 70+ hour a week jobs."
Not sure what your point is? If a farmer is allowed to sell his dairy directly without having to pay a middleman to sell it for him, thus making a decent living, why should he make cheese unless he wants to? And if he wants to, why can't he make cheese part-time and sell that privately, say through a buyers' club, without unreasonable rules and regulations?
Why? because it cuts into the middlemen's profits, that's why.
What if this "consumer" wants their producers to undergo a food safety and testing protocal similair to what Mark's non-profit is proposing to create? This "consumer" demands a high degree of certainty about the food safety of a particular raw milk source, raw milk which is not going to be pasteurized or heat-treated, but instead is going to be fermented. It also so happens that this "consumer" can buy and utilize entire bulk tanks (plural) of high-quality certified raw milk at once (as opposed to your typical normal consumer who can buy and utilize a few gallons, at most, at one time)
If a dairy farmer thinks they can sell all of their milk as fluid milk, more power to them. But I'm here to tell you that very few farms can, and still make ends meet. They need a way to "balance the milk supply" when business is slow. Cows don't stop giving milk just because today is a slow day for sales on the local cow-share. Something needs to be done with the extra milk.
It doesn't have to be this way though. Artisan cheese is the fastest growing segment of the dairy industry today. It would be nice to have a source of good clean certified raw milk from sustainable pasture-based farms to make into artisan cheese.
Let's prove the WCMA and the other big dairy business interests wrong! Raw milk can be safely produced. It doesn't need to remain a dangerous unregulated black market.
For "consumer" try substituting "customer." To a milk farmer you are a customer, as is a person buying a gallon or two. The farmer is your supplier, and s/he also can supply milk to individuals in relatively small quantities. As a large customer, you certainly have some leverage to ask that the farmer meet certain standards and it is clearly in your self-interest to have a certification so you can easily see whether a farmer meet those standards.
But the concern I see expressed here is that small customers and small farmers are concerned that such standards may/will become mandatory and make the raw milk produced the way they want it illegal.
Oh, and by the way, here are the dictionary definitions of "middleman:"
1. A trader who buys from producers and sells to retailers or consumers.
2. An intermediary; a go-between.
Or,
1. (Business / Commerce) an independent trader engaged in the distribution of goods from producer to consumer
2. an intermediary
I seems to me that Pete and Kirsten are using this term correctly.
( not faux raw thermalized ) cheese and cream. This rennasiance of human consumption quality raw milk will also bring the most outstanding raw cheeses to market.
Raw milk needs raw cheeses. After all, raw cheese is the ultimate long term expression of raw milk.
Mark.
Where Bill is wrong is that the black market is inherently dangerous….and that regulation will be a panacea for a safe raw milk supply.
Raw milk is being successfully served nationwide today….with varying degrees and shades from black to grey to white markets. If you'd believe what these guys are trying to sell you, the raw milk delivery system as it stands today is broken…and making multitudes of people sick from 'bad' milk. They have to foster that perception, to sell the new certification…but lets be real here….that perception, and the idea that some seal will magically make the raw milk supply 'better' is a false one. Notice neither Mark nor Bill addressed the fact that most of the raw milk illnesses over the past decade have been caused by 'legal', above board dairies…but still we're subjected to the trashing of the market that has allowed raw milk to flourish in this country. Lies with a purpose.
When the new seal is public, and the lines are drawn, the anti black market milk rhetoric will increase even more…..and the division of the raw milk community will be accentuated.
Bill, whenever we small farmers express concerns about certain aspects of certification, you call us hostile, when in fact it is yourself who is hostile and have been for a quite a while now, simply because we aren't all falling in with joy about your plans for certification.
"OK, so I'll just run with your paradigm here of the cheese maker as a 'consumer.' Its pretty ridiculous, speaking from years of experience, first as a cheese monger and then a cheese maker… but I'll run with it to appease you."
You are not only hostile but condescending as well, talking to us as though we were idiots and fools, when in fact we probably have been producing safe milk for consumption long before you even thought of even drinking it, let alone making cheese with it. Calling people ridiculous is not the way to persuade them to your point of view.
"They need a way to 'balance the milk supply' when business is slow. Cows don't stop giving milk just because today is a slow day for sales on the local cow-share. Something needs to be done with the extra milk."
Shows you how much you know about raw milk dairying. I have a backlog of customers BEGGING for milk. I have no slow days and rarely enough extra milk to make cheese, let alone enough to feed out the piglets I've been talking about raising for the past eight years. Just about any raw milk farmer I know has a waiting list of customers.
Even if I did have too much milk, I'd make cheese and feed out hogs and calves then sell them as prime milk-fed organic meat, the way small farmers always have…. I'd even spray it on my fields as prime organic fertilizer as discussed here before; why sell milk to pay chemical companies for fertilizer when raw milk is better anyway and I had the extra? It's called diversification.
To mangle a metaphor, I don't want to put all my eggs in my milk basket… it's not safe. That's why so many farmers who converted to monoculture when they were told to "Get Big or Get Out" failed by the droves in the 1980s and 1990s. It's why there are so few farmers today.
The only ones who have to "balance the milk supply when business is slow" are conventional dairy farms with no other outlet than dairy co-ops and bulk buyers. Those are the ones I guess you're going to push to get certification, to buy all those tankloads for your cheese. You aren't going to buy from raw milk dairies like me and milkfarmer anyway.
Your disdain for the "typical normal consumer who can buy and utilize a few gallons, at most, at one time" speaks volumes. Those are the people who started this whole raw milk movement anyway, people like me 20 years ago.
Those are the people who are the backbone of Mark's business… and he was never certified either, not when he started and not now. From the sound of things, he's already pretty maxed out, so certification won't help him unless he's planning to grow so big he has to become a CAFO farm too.
In which case, certification would help, I guess.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/8525165/Toxic-pesticides-from-GM-food-crops-found-in-unborn-babies.html
http://www.activistpost.com/2011/05/my-farmer-my-food-my-choice-videos-from.html
More on the Washington rally.
In Wisconsin, there are many small diversified organic dairy farms that sell raw milk. Most also need a processor to pick up their excess because they can't sell it all direct to consumer. Our dairy production far exceeds the local demand. That is why there has been so much controversy around Organic Valley's decision to no longer pick up from farmers selling raw milk direct to consumer. The whole controversy with OV would be a non-issue if the farms were able to sell all of their milk direct to consumers.
I am not in favor of certifying CAFOs. I am in favor of certifying farms that are already doing raw milk, or farms that are already organic in practice, if not in certification. You would be more than welcome to join the raw milk certification if you want. It will include farms milking by hand.
If not, that is fine too. It is your choice. It is a voluntary program.
In other news, I learned today at the farmer's market that a local cheesemaker was raided by FDA. FDA claimed rodent infestation. I'm pretty sure the "rodents" in this case were cheese mites, which are completely harmless. Imported French Mimoelette is intentionally fested with mites. It is part of the flavor profile of the cheese.
http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm256204.htm
I suggest waiting until RAWMI is fully formed, read all the information….digest it and then give comment and criticism. It will be welcomed.
RAWMI has been welcomed by all that welcome a brave heathly near world of kids with strong immunity…an FDA that acknowledges and respects high quality raw milk, producers that stand together, with good science behind them.
Those that advocate for the status quo…are in the dark ages and will continue to be treated and tortured on the rack….just like in the dark ages.
RAWMI is based on RAMP and CA standards…this I admit . But it is voluntary, it is an invitation to participate and it is a tool for success.
If this is not for you, then, do not participate. All involved in raw milk would be strongly encouraged to become involved. It is your tool, stop wearing a target for the FDA or Marler.
Where do you get the idea that most raw milk problems come from legal raw milk dairies. I can think of many problems in the last three years that came from cow shares and dairies accused of poor practices.
Mark
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homepage/20110522_Farmers_vs__feds_.html?page=2&c=y
Naw, boycotting elections won't achieve anything.
Do you REALLY want to "boycott the political system?" It will take real strength and courage: make and spend less money!
Grow your own food! Downsize your house! Live walking distance to work! Better yet, work at home! Even better, have multiple small revenue sources, so you can get by if any of them go away! Stop buying plastic crap from China! Buy fresh food locally! Learn how to preserve it! Shop at thrift stores! Buy nothing new! Mine the dump! Repair rather than recycle! STARVE THE BEAST!