The court suit by a family alleging that a young boy became ill from Minnesota farmer Michael Hartmann’s milk in May 2010 may well be headed for a jury trial.
The judge in the case took under advisement the family’s request for summary judgment–complete acceptance of its case. He also encouraged the parties to seek a mediated settlement, as is required under Minnesota law in such cases. It’s generally difficult to get a summary judgment in a product liability suit.
Assuming mediation doesn’t work, the case is scheduled to go to trial in October. As a number of people said in comments following my previous post, Hartmann would seem to face daunting odds, since the evidence linking his farm to the child’s E.coli O157:H7 is so strong, and could wind up a big loser. Our legal system holds food producers responsible if their food is shown to cause illness.
I spoke briefly with a lawyer representing the family of Owen Caldwell, the boy who became sick, and he said the boy was seriously ill. “The child was on the brink of death,” Michael Hutchens said. “He was on his death bed.”
The boy has since recovered, “and is doing fairly well.”
He suggested that the family isn’t seeking a huge settlement with Hartmann. Rather, it’s the family’s position that the boy “has some compensation coming,” based on the severity of the illness and the genetic linkage between the E.coli 0157:H7 found in the boy and on the Hartmann farm. “They’re not out to villify Hartmann.”
He said Hartmann has been pleading poverty. “Unfortunately, he (Hartmann) did not have insurance.” He accused Hartmann of spending significant sums of money unnecessarily on legal bills, such as $9,000 for a transcript of the case he lost against the state a year ago over the embargo of his products, so he can file an appeal.
Among Hartmann supporters, one of them, Will Winter, wrote after the court session about “looking at the silhouette of the lone farmer MIKE HARTMANN going up against the establishment ALL BY HIMSELF. It was a sight to bring tears to anyone who has tried to raise or produce healthy food for a too-oft ignorant public.”
Winter is a veterinarian and one of the original founders of Traditional Foods Minnesota, the Minneapolis food club shut down in June 2010 by Minneapolis and Minnesota Department of Agriculture officials. So it’s understandable that he is sensitive to government intrusions that threaten our food.
However, this legal case has been undertaken by a family, not a government agency.
In any event, Winter claims Hartmann “has never gotten written proof of this allegation of matching serotypes.” He also contends the Caldwell family changed its story about what foods the boy had consumed. And he calls into question the way they handled the boy’s illness, noting that “the parents who are both health professionals, he a chiropractor and she a ‘holistic nutritionist’ tolerated bloody diarrhea and other symptoms in the child for THREE DAYS before seeking hospital care. This was never explained but stands out.” Shades of blaming the victim.
This account of the court proceedings, like the original call to Minnesota consumers to show up and support Michael Hartmann in court on Friday, has a bad feel to it, especially in terms of its insensitivity to the Caldwell family. I appreciate what Mark McAfee says following my previous post about Hartmann: “I do not want to see anyone throw him under the bus either. This is an education challenge.”
Indeed it is. We all need to keep educating ourselves about the realities of food safety versus food rights–to learn from situations like that on the Hartmann farm that may have contributed to the illnesses, and to make distinctions as to situations that deserve serious consumer support, and those that may be diversions.
***
We’re seeing media accounts of raw milk cases that are ever more perceptive and balanced than they once were.
Two recent ones, by major outlets, assess recent government actions against raw dairy producers.
One is a story from the Associated Press that presents concerns by the South Carolina farmer accused of sickening at least three consumers in North Carolina recently.
Plus, there’s a lengthy account about California’s assault on herdshares, in the Sacramento Bee. It includes much detail about the arguments supporting herdshare arrangements.
Gradually, the media are catching on to the fact that there are two sides to many of the government actions against small producers of nutrient-dense food.
This trend is a double-edged sword, but I don't think there is any point in trying to fight it. It is inevitable.
" Winter's license to practice veterinary medicine has been suspended for 11 years."
http://www.startribune.com/investigators/103207009.html
There may be some people on this blog who do not believe in certification and licensing of medical professionals, but this guy Winters shouldn't be misleading people into thinking he has these credentials.
MW
I flew to Morgan Hill Airport today and picked up Mike Hulme we then flew to
Paso Robles to meet with a state senators staff member to discuss strategy about CA Share producers etc. Great meeting and great ideas flowed.
It appears that a meeting between Mike and I and the CA Agr Sec is being arranged.
It appears that cooler thinking heads are putting some influence on the subject of Share Agreements. We will see what happens next week.
Raw milk producers need insurance. The option is to offer your farm at the Roullette table of life. As everyone knows, we have weird liability laws in America. Face reality and get some protection. No matter how clean or good your raw milk is, there are no guarantees. None.
This is a situation that has to change.If we cannot question the investigation,then that leaves us in the position of being found guilty whenever an accusation is made.
"Raw milk producers need insurance. The option is to offer your farm at the Roullette table of life. As everyone knows, we have weird liability laws in America. Face reality and get some protection. No matter how clean or good your raw milk is, there are no guarantees. None. "
What insurance company is going to insure a farm when it knows that it cannot defend that farm against the health departments accusations.Let me remind you that the Minnesota Dept of Health has a plan in place to eliminate the availability of raw milk in the state.
And the parents are health "professionals"? $9000 for a transcript? Is that normal?
"has never gotten written proof of this allegation of matching serotypes."
Why hasn't he received proof? If he is accused, then isn't he SUPPOSED to see the evidence?
"He also contends the Caldwell family changed its story about what foods the boy had consumed."
deja vu
"There may be some people on this blog who do not believe in certification and licensing of medical professionals,"
And who might that be?
Regarding the SC farm, why wait until the end of July to notify people of the "outbreak" when it occured mid-June? I couldn't find any up-dated news on since July 20. The whole story sounds shady.
How can someone be guilty based on assumption?
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
Voltaire
Migel is not simply stating an "opinion" he is also asking pertinent questions and pointing out inadequacies that need to be addressed. Those who take offence, demonstrate sarcasm towards, and fail to address his queries are controlled by their perceived knowledge and accompanying ego.
MW
Was Will Winter not granted a license to practice as a veterinarian?
Veterinarians receive numerous customer complaints per year, however as long as they adhere to the status quo established by their peers everything is a-ok. Heaven forbid if they should take a non conventional holistic approach.
David
With such lawsuits, justified or not, blaming the victim is a fait acompli.
Ken Conrad
May 31, 2010 | Registered CommenterKevin Burget"
Here is Dr. Randall S. Singer,University of Minnesota talking last January.
Between 7:34 and 15.05 in this talk he gives us a simplified explanation of how bacteria can change strain inside an animal or a humaqn as a result of a disruption in the stable bacterial community in the gut. "could be pig ,could be a person" is how he puts it in his example. I think this directly answers Kevin Burget's question and destroys the Minnesota Health Department's assumption that there is an outside point source for the ecoli o157:h7 found in someone that is ill.If we really want to find out what caused the illness,we need to look at exposure to factors that suppress the normal gut flora.This search for the point source of this "pathogen" is a wild goose chase.It is a distraction.If we look for the factor that upset the gut flora,we will find that there are many many things in our daily life that can do this.I suspect that the gut flora is suffering from an assault by so many different antibacterials on a regular basis that a small increase in one particular antibacterial can be enough to cause a sharp upset in the gut flora that will cause the normal gut bacteria to change to an opportunistic form that will proliferate in your gut because most of it's competition has been eliminated.
http://blip.tv/trufflemedia/dr-randall-singer-treating-the-unknown-antibiotics-in-pork-production-4787402
It is interesting how you make such a fuss about defending Mike Hartmann, but when the Wisconsin campylobacter outbreak happened earlier this year, you had nothing to say in defense of the farmer.
The reason I say this is because both raw milks were designed for pasteurization. Even though Hartmann is currently selling his milk raw, he is a PMO farmer who stopped pasteurizing his milk 10 years ago after the state revoked his license. His milk needs to be pasteurized to be safe.
I do not think there is any point in trying to defend this guy. He is not an ally of the broader raw milk movement. If anything, he is an enormous liability to our cause… that is unless he is willing to make amends and clean up his act, which I'm not counting on.
Your comment is a bit insulting to the many hardworking and competent veterinarians practicing holistic and complementary medicine that keep up on their continuing education and maintain their license to practice. Medical boards rarely revoke a license, and it only happens after extensive investigation and appeals. They serve the purpose of removing the bad eggs. Maybe you and miguel should demand a closer look at his record. Or not, since the conclusion will be it was all a grand conspiracy.
MW
Perhaps if they did do their jobs then there may be less substandard care. What a sick joke.
http://socialistworker.org/2011/07/26/fake-solution-to-the-obesity-crisis
I wondered about this too. Since the parents are both in healthcare, I am wondering if they had tried to use some type of alternative treatment or home remedy first, before taking their child to the hospital… If so, I'd be interested in knowing what they used, if anything.
David – did the parent's tell you of any home treatments that they may have used?
Did the parents also get sick from the milk?
Guillaine-Barre syndrome (GBS) appears to be an iatrogenic condition (condition caused by medical treatment). All of the reporting I could find in the medical library shows that GBS has been preceded by either an allopathic immunization/vaccination program or by antibiotic treatment. If anyone knows of a reference of GBS following Campylobacter Jejuni without allopathic intervention, please do post the source or title of the research article.
HUS following E. coli O157 looks like it may also be an iatrogenic condition that develops when antibiotics are used on organisms that produce Shigella toxins (Stx).
There has been a significant increase in research of traditional medicines due to the development of anti biotic resistant strains of pathogens and the acknowledgement of GBS and HUS as complications of anti-biotic treatment.
I can understand a parent's reluctance to seek anti-biotic treatment for diarrhea in view of the risk of GBS and HUS.
Other commenters on this blog may find the following article of interest
Investigations into the antibacterial activities of phytotherapeutics against Helicobacter pylori and Campylobacter jejuni
C. Cwikla1, K. Schmidt1, A. Matthias2, K. M. Bone2,3, R. Lehmann2, E. Tiralongo1,*
Phytotherapy Research
Volume 24, Issue 5, pages 649656, May 2010
The above reference article is an in vitro study that shows significant anti-bacterial effects of various herbal extracts, many of which are the same ones used in traditional medicine for similar conditions.
Calendula (Calendula officinalis), Ginger (Zingiber officinale), Sage (Salvia officinalis), Chamomile (Matricaria recutita), Fennel (Foeniculum vulgare) and St Marys Thistle (Silybum marianum) appear to have tested highest for effectiveness against C. Jejuni.
Turmeric, Goldenseal, Meadowsweet and Andrographis also showed significant effectiveness on campy.
For those of us who are allergic to many anti-biotics, traditional medicine has been the only option available. Thankfully the traditional medicines have worked very well.
My family has dealt with many cases of travelers diarrhea, even the bloody ones, with turmeric, and fennel plus a liver herb (in our case, usually andrographis or phyllanthus niruri since we have this around the house).
Ideally there would be no infections associated with consumption of foods. In the real world, it seems like it would make sense to have some type of home protocol available as a first response.
"If anything, he is an enormous liability to our cause… that is unless he is willing to make amends and clean up his act, which I'm not counting on. "
Why is it that the health department can make unsupported accusations against a farmer,refuse to produce any shred of evidence to back up those accusations and you seem to think that it is out of place to question this type of behavior?Apparently you don't need evidence to believe any accusation that is made against a farmer.All we are asking for is to see the evidence that supports the accusations.You make the same accusations and also refuse to give any evidence.You speak of "our cause" as if we are working towards the same goal.I don't think so.You are a very confused young man and ,frankly ,a total waste of time to talk to.I will pray that you find something more worthwhile to do with your time other than to work for some cause that you totally misunderstand.
http://www.realrawmilkfacts.com/the-raw-milk-wars-sally-fallon-from-weston-a-price-and-bill-marler-from-the-food-safety-law-firm-on-radio/
http://thekojonnamdishow.org/shows/2011-07-27/raw-milk-wars
You have one standard of "evidence" for raw milk and another for every other topic. The health department investigation is totally transparent – you know exactly what enzymes were used (with your skills at finding things on the internet, I'm sure you could find the report and supporting literature). You can always submit a FOIA. The reality is that you simply refuse to "believe" science when it is applied to something that doesn't fit your agenda, then call upon the same science when it fits your agenda. It would be interesting to see you provide the same level of proof regarding your beliefs about chemicals and GMOs as you demand from the health department (please don't send a bunch of abstracts cut and pasted out of context and clearly from full papers that you have not read, let alone looked up and read the references in the papers you cite). You portray yourself as an expert, yet do not do your homework. While I don't agree with all Bill A's politics and conclusions, in general he does a good job discussing the microbiology of dairy products at his stage in his career.
Sorry for the scolding tone, it's just we've gone round and round on this since I jumped into the Hartmann conversataion.
MW
I am in favor of CERTIFIED raw milk. I also recognize that you are not interested in increasing raw milk availability to the broader public, because this would involve entering into the realm of commerce.
I wish I could share in your radical anti-commercial idealism, but the reality is that most people today depend upon commerce to feed themselves and make ends meet. This includes many many small-scale sustainable dairy farmers who are producing clean raw milk that is worthy of certification and distribution through commercial channels.
For you to leave these many dedicated dairy farmers behind, because of an ideological attachment to one farmer with a clear history of dirty milk and cheese, and numerous illness outbreaks, is an affront to the movement for sustainable agriculture and local foods.
Michael Hartmann's milk needs to be pasteurized to be safe. He even sold most of his milk as low-temperature pasteurized milk prior to his Grade A dairy license being revoked by Minnesotta in 2001.
I agree with you that the health department needs to show their cards and release all the data & evidence against the Hartmanns, if they haven't already.
Michael Hartmann is the opposite of Michael Schmidt. If Schmidt is the raw milk angel, then Hartmann is the raw milk Lucifer.
I choose the angel, any day.
Thank you so much for your incredible insights on holistic alternative remedies to food borne illness. The world really needs more people with your wisdom and healing powers. Please keep up the good work!
In the previous article you stated If Hartmann wants my help in identifying and correcting his food safety issues, I would be more than happy to come and visit his farm and offer my advice.
So tell me, if you were invited to the Hartmann farm and he took your advice, can you then guarantee 100% that he will never again be accused of people getting sick from his milk? Will your standards insure, without a doubt, that his milk is completely safe? If they sweep down the cobwebs, paint the walls white, get the rat poop out of the attic, and pull the weeds from the cracks in the sidewalk, will this insure the milk will then be safe? If cleanliness makes the milk safe, then what does that say about other dairies that have been accused of making people sick but have clean facilities.
You also went on to state:
Michael Hartmann's milk needs to be pasteurized to be safe. He even sold most of his milk as low-temperature pasteurized milk prior to his Grade A dairy license being revoked by Minnesotta in 2001.
Are you also saying that in order to sell raw milk you can only sell raw milk from the beginning? That you can never have sold your milk to be pasteurized in the past? How many dairies sell both raw milk and milk to be pasteurized? The raw milk movement has come a long ways in the past 10 years, but certainly not every one is able to sell all of their milk as raw. Does this automatically disqualify them for being able to produce safe milk becasue their milk is PMO?
And in regards to the license this is not the entire truth; his Grade A license was revoked by the state because he chose not to bow down to some of the DOAs unreasonable demands. This included a demand that he was required to get a milk haulers license to transport his milk from the barn to his creamery- a distance of about 100 ft. The DOA has their own set of rules and standards that they can interpret however they choose. And if you choose to argue or dispute them, they will make your life miserable.
I am willing to bet that you have never visited the Hartmann farm or even spoke to Mike. Your comments are likely based solely on what you hear in the media. And Im sure we all can agree that the media never distorts the truth or tells lies (sarcasm). Let his customers decide for themselves who they want to support as they certainly know more of the truth!
It has been a long hard road (and still is) for physicians including veterinarians who have chosen to practice alternative modalities and I am quite certain that they understand and can relate to what I stated.
I have the greatest of respect for their courage and resolve to adopt and provide alternative non toxic solutions to good health. I cannot say that about their peers however since many of them reject the holistic or complementary approach as quackery or, unscientific crap in the words of one conventional physician I spoke to.
Those who have chosen to use alternative therapies have been denied hospital privileges despite their conventional training and clearly marginalized.
Ken Conrad
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2018807/Walnuts-DRUGS-FDA-makes-bizarre-claim-seller-says-reduce-risk-heart-disease-cancer.html
"claims are backed up by research, including 35 published medical papers supporting assertions that eating walnuts improves vascular health and may reduce risk of heart attacks, the FDA is said to have insisted the company is 'misbranding' its foods because the 'product bears health claims that are not authorised by the FDA'."
I've worked along side of some great MDs, and avoided those who I felt gave questionable care. A nurse I knew, saw a MD rinse gauze in tap water and pack a belly wound with it..she reported him and was black balled in Texas. Did the Tx nurses asso back her up? NO, Did The Tx medical board back her? NO, Did they investigate? Doubtful. The patient, if I recall, had no insurance. I refused to be assigned to any of that MDs patients, I did not want my name on any charts or associated with any suits.
I've been through my share of "joint commission inspections". Amazingly just before the inspections; the facility is really cleaned, the places are staffed safely, supplies are in abundance, and the upper management is 'friendly'…..then after the inspections, the staffing is reduced to the normal skeleton crew, supplies disappear and the snarling returns. The inspection was a joke. Money paid to an entity to look good on paper. The system is broken.
Holistic/complementary medicine is capable of working together, there needs to be respect for each other. I think some in the health care field are more open to the alternatives now then 10 yrs ago, there is still a long way to go.
"researchers at Yale University in the U.S. said that infants who receive antibiotics have a 70 per cent higher risk of suffering from asthma in childhood."
I think you miunderstand what certification means. It involves more than just having a clean appearance. Certification means regular laboratory testing and scientific monitoring of the milk's microbiological qualities.
Also, I have a bulk milk weigher and sampler's license from the state of Wisconsin. All it took me for me to obtain this license was to read a study guide, and then pass a simple test demonstrating competency in sanitary milk handling and measuring. I don't know why Hartmann sees it as such a huge issue. Perhaps because he doesn't want to have to prove his competency in sanitary milk handling?
You are correct that Hartmann's customers can choose to buy his milk. But I think it is a huge mistake for him to try to rally his customers against another customer whose child was sickened by drinking his milk. This only plays into the hands of the health authorities who want to paint all raw milk people as quacks who reject science.
Again, this is a civil product liability case, NOT a criminal prosecution. It's outcome has no effect on the consumers right to choose raw milk from a source of their choosing.
I watched the video clip you posted of Dr Singer explain about the role of antibiotics on drug resistance. Thank you for posting the video, he is a great speaker and explains complicated topics in very simple terms. Unfortunately, I think you come to very different conclusions than what he suggests in his video. He is speaking specifically about bacteria attaining drug resistance through sharing of genetic material, it appears mainly through plasmids. This can make a bacteria resistant to certain drugs but it does not change the species (or type) of bacteria. If an E. coli bacteria receives a drug resistance plasmid, it will be a drug resistant E. coli. It will not change to E. coli 0157. In no place in this talk does he mention bacteria changing to different species or different serotypes. In fact, later in the talk he talks about tuberculosis and calls it an obligate pathogen. This contradicts your theory that there is no such thing as a pathogen. I still see no evidence at all that a bacteria can spontaneously change to another species or serotype.
I haven't spoken with anyone in the Caldwell family. Their lawyer declined my request to speak with the parents.
David
Regarding MW's comments on transparency. There are issues with government departments-no doubt. But FOIA requests are an option and the experimental methods and data should be explored in depth at trial. The query should focus on the data, sampling and methodologies. Sampling and analytical methodologies are available.
In addition, more dairies-including ours- are setting up their own microbiology labs to quickly identify and screen for organisms so we can quickly deal with any issues. There is not a great deal of cost, pre-made indicator plates are available and the methods are straight forward. We had suggested this and were encouraged to do so by our dairy inspector-adding another level of security-by us- in our responsibility to produce a superior product for our customers.
Credibility is extremely important in furthering our liberty interests in access to healthful foods.
I dont recall Migel advocating spontaneous generation but rather the ability of chemicals to promote mutation of organisms into a virulent state.
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/DNA_sequence_reconstituted_from_Water_Memory.php
I am certainly not an advocate of spontaneous generation however the above article by Dr. Mae-Wan Ho is interesting. She states in her introduction, Water carrying only the electromagnetic signature of a DNA sequence can make a replica of the sequence out of simple building blocks, Nobel laureate HIV researcher shows.
Ken Conrad
Sometimes it is what you see that is an indicator of what you get….
When I was a paramedic, we hired a QA management team to assist our EMS helicopter and ground based operations with some improvement projects.
It was interesting….the first thing that the QA expert did was to go look at the mechanics department. I asked him why look at the mechanics wrenches or the floor for oil stains???
He said this, "when management gets the maintenance right on the ambulances….we have found that they tend to also get the patient care right at midnight 40 miles from here with the paramedics quality of care".
The same can be said of raw milk producers. When management cares and has a thorough plan and the team is all on board, then this theme tends to permiate the entire culture of the operation.
But…there is much more.
When I was in Colorado years ago, I visited a raw milk share program and they wanted to know why they had off flavors and short shelf life in their raw milk.
Now this was a clean dairy with lots of new paint and nice things all arround. Looked really great and clean as ever.
I went into the milk parlor and started pulling out all of the hoses….all of them had bioflims in them. End of search. I asked how they cleaned them…they said, well we do not take them apart to clean them.
With raw milk there are deeper training issues. There are nuances that are very important to be learned that if never taught you would never know. Things that are ok with the PMO CAFO, that flop on a raw milk dairy.
I really do not like to think of Hartman as the devil. I have met him. He is a deeply spiritual person…stuck in his ways. If after he does not move foreward after additional help then it is his cross to bare…until then, he should not be hung to out to dry.
Look at the nice new paint and roses by the barn…..then look inside the hoses and taste the raw milk. Human Consumption Raw Milk requires a deep understanding of much more than the PMO.
RAWMI Status Update.
The directors will be sent their packages via UPS tommorrow. The first conference call is next week. Progress is being made. The website is done ( in the rough ) and ready for the directors to review and approve.
I have pledged to keep you all in the loop and I will keep that promise. The first week of September we will celebrate the grand opening of RAWMI. ( all of this obviously pending directors agreement )
Mark
Regardless of how you want to split the hairs here, it is extremely unlikely that spontaneous mutations induced by chemicals or anti-biotics will lead directly and immediately to pathogenic virulence within the human gut or within a single item or batch of a food product.
To me, this is just an attempt to excuse unclean, insanitary, irresponsbile or uninformed milk collection and handling practices.
It is true that bacteria can mutate to develop resistance to chemical sanitizers and anti-biotics when there are persistant sub-lethal concentrations of those chemicals in the enviroment. But the primary mode of resistance to chemical sanitizers is bio-film formation. And this applies to many bacteria types include non-pathogens and pro-biotics, and does nothing to explain the development of pathogenic virulence.
Miguel's assertions are far-fetched wishful thinking. I appreciate his attempts to vividly illustrate, using words, the immense complexity of the microbial eco-systems. But I think in the process, he has jumped to some conclusions which are not based in science or fact.
The moment a scientist declares something to be a fact, he/she has left the realm of science and entered the realm of dogma.
The first week of September is very symbolic. You know what happened the first week of September 5 years ago.
I visited Eliot Coleman's farm last week to tweak all of my ideas for four seasons gardening:)
Bill, read your linked post about Obesity:
http://socialistworker.org/2011/07/26/fake-solution-to-the-obesity-crisis
To tell you the honest to god truth . . . . if it takes any amount of work to produce your own food . . . . the poor will not do it and I will tell you why. . . . Section 8 housing, WIC, Food Stamps, SSI for even the smallest disability (I have seen lots of these people boat, four wheel, and snowmobile in my neck of the woods on SSI).
We approched our local food bank a few years ago and wanted to help anyone who was interested in starting their own garden . . . we would provide the seed and tiller to start them out. We had no takers. Not one interested family. They just want to drive up and pick up the donated food . . . . to start a garden is work!?.
I can tell you that if WIC, Section 8 housing, SSI disablility, Food Stamps, etc ., were cut . . . . . the poor would contact us right away about starting a garden. Obesity would not be an issue.
Government is the problem.
(Look for your books next week:)
Kind regards,
Violet
http://www.kilbyridgefarmmaine.blogspot.com
And that is the crux of the matter behind why Bill is hard against Hartman. Hartman has been fighting for his God given and MN constitution guaranteed freedom to produce food without licensing oversight by the government. As a socialist/fascist believer in government intervention he can't have that. And government licensing has been quite profitable for CA's largest raw milk dairy too.
And frankly, I don't care if Hartmann sells milk to his core group of supporters. It really doesn't bother me. He just needs to take responsibility for the harm he has caused to others. Its called social responsibility, and as an advocate for sustainable agriculture I consider it to be of the utmost importance. If I wasn't for social responsibility, I would not be supporting small local dairy farmers. I would just sell my soul to the establishment and make commodity cheese because it is profitable.
As a raw milk advocate/activist, I think we also need to be clear that we do NOT advocate for this type of milk to be sold in its raw form. Hartmann is a Grade A PMO farmer whose milk needs to be pasteurized to be safe for the general public.
Violet, I'm sorry you had bad experience with lower-income people. I have had some very positive experiences with low income people in urban community gardens.
Also — both of you — PLEASE stop equating socialism with "big government." You are confusing state-capitalism with genuine socialism. Socialism is a democratic economic system run by and for the interests of the people rather than for corporate profit. Cooperatives, communes, and labor unions are all examples of socialist economic systems. State-run-capitalism in its various forms (from the former USSR, to liberal social-democracies in Western Europe) is NOT the same thing as socialism. True socialism must come from below — it cannot be imposed from above by the government.
Certifications do not make a farmer or a product. If you buy local from a farmer who produces healthy raw milk, cheese, cream, butter, eggs, meat, grains, produce . . . . and you see everyday how those products are being produced . . . . . there is no need for any certifiications.
The key is small, niche, local and high quality. Customers will weed out the bad farmers if given a choice like they did generations ago. Bad farmers went out of business quite quickly. Everyone back in the 20's, 30's and 40's, talked about the smelly barn, sick cows, bad meat, and horrible quality produce . . . .
Nobody needed certifications then so why do we need them now . . . oh, I get it . . . . our customers are too stupid to know anything about quality. . . . I don't think so.
Kind regards,
Violet
http://www.kilbyridgefarmmaine.blogspot.com
Please state which ot the 1000's of Socialistic "Communes" born in the 60's are still around today . . . and please let me know which labor unions became so powerful that they purchased and now run their own corporation. Most Agricultural Cooperatives that I deal with and purchase from are based on a capitalistic model . . . . they need to make money to survive:)
Socialism has never worked and never will because there are always those who sham and are lazy and a stick is needed to keep them in line . . . . that is why these societies eventually become Totallitarian in nature.
Kind regards,
Violet
http://www.kilbyridgefarmmaine.blogspot.com
Sparks of Life, Darwinism and the Victorian Debates Over Spontaneous Generation
By James Strick
http://www.amazon.com/Sparks-Life-Darwinism-Spontaneous-Generation/product-reviews/0674009991/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
His food safety record (though it would have been avoidable had he been tested and inspected) could be chalked up to incompotence and not to bad motives. Hartmann is a Grade A PMO farmer whose milk needs to be pasteurized to be safe for the general public.
So then you are stating that had Hartmann been tested and inspected there is no chance he would be in the situation that he is in? Are you saying that there has never been a dairy that is inspected and tested that was accused of making people sick? And exactly what food safety record are you referring to? Up until last May, I am not aware of any complaints or violations against him. Up until he chose not to have the Grade A license he was certified and inspected. So the only record he has is from the claims of the MDA last year. And I guess your last statement would actually be correct his milk should be pasteurized for the general public. Nobody in MN (and many other states) is allowed to sell raw milk to the general public! All of Hartmanns sales are to private parties, never to the general public.
This is not a rally of customers against another customer. This is a quiet show of support for the Hartmann family. Nobody asked David to post an article on this or to add in his 2cents worth. If we want to support our farmer, then this is our decision. The outcome of this will absolutely have an impact on their customers choice on where to get their milk; after all how many people commented that this will put him out of business. Seems to me some people said this last year but seems to me he still going strong.
If I am a mother of young children and I decide to seek out a controversial food item (raw milk) because my friend told me about it. I know there are risks involved, some very serious, but decide to overlook these. I seek out a farmer and specifically ask to purchase his raw milk. I then decide to give it to my small child whose health is questionable. The child becomes seriously ill and requires hospitalization. Is the farmer now 100% responsible? Dont I as the mother share much more of the responsibility? After all, I didnt just find the milk on my local Cub food shelf; I went to great lengths to specifically find a farmer who would sell it to me and then I chose to give it to my child knowing their heath issues. The farmer did not force me to buy it nor did he force me to feed it to my child. If we want the freedom to eat what we choose and feed our children what we choose to then we need to be willing to accept the responsibility that goes with this.
I would agree with you that inspections and testing are not a pancea for food safety. Probably the most important factor in food safety is education and competancy, combined with good practices.
However, I think in Hartmann's case, inspections could have prevented some of the problems. For example, the cryptosporidium outbreak linked to his farm most likely came from the water supply, because of manure/fecal runoff into his well water. This would have been detected if he was inspected because of coliform water testing required by regulatory agencies.
He was also raising chickens in the same barn where he was milking cows, which is a big no-no for food safety (likely the cause of the campylobacter outbreak), and this would have immediately been identified as a problem by a compotent inspector. (I am told by an inside source that he has since removed the poultry from the milk barn, but only after urged to do so by a nationally known grassroots raw milk activist)
As far as liability goes, I'm no legal expert on the subject, but I do know that the burden of liability for foodborne illness lies on the producer/seller of food, not on the consumer. It is one thing if you are subsistance farmer producing food for yourself and your family or friends, without expecting to be paid for the food. But it is an entirely different matter when you start selling food to others for money, regardless of whether it is to "the general public" or to "private parties." Once you do the latter, you are now entering into the realm of commerce, and there are additional responsibilities which you bear.
As I said before, I really don't care if Hartmann wants to sell his raw milk to his core group of consumers. My concern is how this reflects on the broader raw milk movement. I think it is fair to say that most farmers who are selling raw milk take food safety very seriously. It would appear to me that Hartmann does not.