The federal judge hearing the government case to prevent Amish farmer Daniel Allgyer from shipping raw milk to members of a Maryland food club has issued his first ruling, and initial thoughts on the case.
At first read, he seems negatively inclined toward the rights of consumers to access the foods of their choice. And in seeking to keep the case focused on only the government’s contention that Allgyer violated federal law in shipping raw milk to the Maryland food club, the judge seems similarly negative. It’s not fun reading if you were hoping that at least federal judges might be sensitive to such things as rights of private groups to access the foods of their choosing.
What prompted Judge Stengel’s initial ruling and comments on the case was a motion filed by Aajonus Vonderplanitz to intervene in the case via a “cross complaint in intervention.” Essentially, Vonderplanitz filed his complaint as a way to argue the case on behalf of Allgyer who, as an Amish, is prohibited under his religious beliefs from actively engaging in legal actions. Vonderplanitz was also acting on behalf of his organization, Right to Choose Healthy Food, which had provided the membership and leasing arrangements under which the private Maryland food club operated.
The judge in his decision denied Vonderplanitz’s complaint, primarily because he isn’t a lawyer. This has been a hot button for judges in several cases involving raw milk. Judges only want to deal with others in their fraternity.
The judge concluded: “Although an individual may represent himself pro se, ‘he is not entitled to act as an attorney for others in a federal court'” under what the judge said were well established precedent and rules.
Vonderplanitz had argued there were extenuating circumstances that made his cross complaint acceptable, but the judge wouldn’t hear of them. “Mr. Vonderplanitz maintains the individuals and associations contracted with him to represent them, have been unable to find or afford counsel, and many have had ‘negative experiences’ with attorneys. Moreover, the GrassFed Club members would like to remain anonymous because they fear government retribution. The requirement that a person can be represented only by a licensed attorney or can represent himself, however, cannot be altered because of a contract with a lay person, because of an inability to find an attorney, because of a dislike of attorneys, or because some proposed interveners would like to remain anonymous.”
The judge was equally unsympathetic to the argument that the government’s complaint for a permanent injunction barring Allgyer from shipping milk to the food club in Maryland will deprive them of essential nutrient-dense foods. “Mr. Vonderplanitz?s claims of an interest in the case are sweeping, generalized, and grandiose. He believes if the FDA prevails in this lawsuit, the people he is attempting to represent would be deprived of food from their animals and deprived of ‘nourishment, life, liberty and better health.’… This interest is not a legally cognizable interest sufficient to establish intervention…”
Bottom line: “Mr. Vonderplanitz cannot represent the other individuals and entities because he is not a licensed attorney.” Implied: Too bad if people can’t get their food.
Such initial opinions on related motions can be helpful in assessing the judge’s inclinations. In this case, Judge Stengel indicates little interest in examining such issues as whether raw milk or pasteurized milk are dangerous, labeling them “tangential.”
The judge states: “The tangential issues raised in his motion include : whether raw milk is a health risk to the public and whether raw milk has caused epidemics; whether Mr. Vonderplanitz and the entities he attempted to represent were within the jurisdiction of the United States,… whether pasteurized milk is dangerous and whether pasteurized milk has caused epidemics; whether FDA investigators committed perjury and fraud by stating the raw milk was sold even though they were aware of the contracts which provided the members owned the dairy; and whether the Government should be enjoined from ‘continuing to propagandize the myth, unscientific rhetoric, that claims and declares that raw . . . milk and dairy are dangerous to health and life . . . ‘ The main issue in this case is whether Daniel Allgyer is in violation of federal law.”
Indeed, the judge castigates Vonderplanitz because, in the judge’s view, he “seeks far more than a resolution of that legal issue. He appears to want a forum in which to air his grievances about general ‘government intrusion’ into the (largely food related) interest of ‘privately associated citizens’ (i.e., so private as to avoid the jurisdiction of the federal government and its courts). Mr. Vonderplanitz also appears to want to use this forum to market the benefits of raw milk and other nutritional options.”
The judge makes no attempt to hide his contempt and sarcasm about “privately associated citizens.”
It remains to be seen whether lawyers who argue this case on behalf of Allgyer will be able to examine whether the federal law prohibiting interstate sales of raw milk has been properly applied in this case, or might be unconstitutional, as the Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund has argued in a separate case pending in Iowa.
Judge Stengel, by the way, was nominated to the court by President George Bush in 2004, and confirmed without opposition by the Senate. He should be familiar with Amish ways, since he was born and raised in Lancaster, PA. But a quick review via a Google search indicates his decisions have always been supportive of the government side. This case looks to be a slam dunk for the FDA and Justice Department.
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Reminder: The Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund’s annual fundraising event is being held at Joel Salatin’s farm Saturay Sept. 10. The highlight will be a personal tour by Salatin. I’ll be speaking, together with Pete Kennedy, president of FTCLDF, and Sally Fallon, head of the Weston A. Price Foundation, among others. And there’s information on obtaining the movie “Farmageddon” or Joel Salatin’s new book, Folks, This Ain’t Normal, in honor of donations.
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A number of readers have been experiencing intermittent difficulties posting comments to the site. The blog’s hosting firm tells me it’s aware of the problem, and is trying to fix it. In the meantime, the comment feature does work at times, so I’d advise anyone posting comments to copy them first, to prevent anything being lost. Sometimes it helps to switch browsers, and go from Firefox to Internet Explorer, for example. My apologies for the inconvenience. Hopefully it will be resolved shortly.
How does WAPF make a big deal about Claradale feeding grains… because OP's and Claradale's ads follow each other? WAPF does not write or edit those raw milk ads. Raw milk providers send their own ads to WAPF, which posts them exactly as given, where the ads remain unchanged until the provider gives new changes or asks to have them removed. And this I know because I used to advertise there myself. Claradale's ad was written by Claradale themselves.
"….there is no difference in the types of feed that Claravale Farm and Organic Pastures feed their cows."
Except OP is organic and so does not feed GMOs… a bigger danger by far, as far as I am concerned.
I'm not sure what Lola's obsession is about Mark's pastures anyway. I'm pretty sure that she would become offended if someone were to start doing invasive research on her and ask those repetitive questions day after day. I know I would, especially when the person isn't a customer or even a potential customer.
And like Mark says, he's far more transparent than any other dairy producer, raw or not. Organic Valley and other mega-dairies won't even let you on the property.
Could someone please explain to me how we in the raw milk movement are smart enough to question such orgazations as the FDA, we question the doctors that advocate vaccines for our children, we question the safety of GMO and chemically-laden foods, but we don't think to question the self-appointed "leaders of the raw milk movement", their motivations, their actions, or their business models?
Mark owns 500+ acres of prime California agricultural land (at how many thousands $ per acre, I wonder?), he makes millions of dollars a year, he has a hired staff to milk his cows, to bottle his milk, to make deliveries, etc., etc.
Why do I care? Because he's not one of us. Mark is Big Business. He's a corporation. He's a mega-dairy. Same as all the other mega-dairies, but with organic and grass-fed packaging. Different packaging, but the business model is the same. Yet, he fancys himself our spokesperson, and we find commonality with him?
Mark has been caught time and again in half-truths, mis-truths, and out-and-out lies, yet when I question some basic facts of his farm, which I had to ask twice to get an answer to, I get a dressing down from Goatmaid.
Tax records are public records, and most communities have them available online. Mark invited us to admire his lush, green pastures using Google Earth. Is it too much to think that maybe we should verify that he actually owns those pastures he's invited us to admire? By the tax valuation, those fields are either at a different address, or owned by an OPDC holding company.
Are we all too blind to imagine that maybe Mark is such a tireless advocate of cowshares because he advocates regulating them, and he knows that increased regulation will either put them out of business or never allow them to grow to a size competetive to OPDC? It's good PR on Mark's part, with the added benefit of crushing the competetion. That's exactly what Organic Valley has done and is doing, in Wisconsin and all over the U.S.
Are we really so blind that we question everything, except those who claim they're here to help? You tell me.
http://yourlife.usatoday.com/fitness-food/safety/story/2011-08-28/Egg-farm-regulations-still-skimpy/50166384/1
"inspectors continue to find unsanitary conditions and inadequate protections against salmonella on Iowa's egg farms." "None of the violations has resulted in penalties from state or federal agencies, and Iowa's egg producers still aren't required to tell state officials when they find salmonella."
Shows that regulators hold no water. No change and they continue to contaminate people.
Most people that work, work for a team and mission not themselves. Working for yourself is wonderful and rewarding…..if you can. If you have a business or farm and have the previledge of working for yourself….more power to you. I really do wish you health and the best of luck.
In the beginning, I milked my cows and I bottled my own milk. That was 2000. Then I listened to consumers….WAP was my core consumer. I them responded to them and I built a team. I added good jobs and I fed many more people every year.
I am not sorry one little bit for building a company that is also my family. We have created more than 55 great paying jobs and we have supported our economy by buying 20 trucks and building a creamery, serving more than 35 farmers markets, 400 stores and buyers clubs and adding equipment and etc,….
I have no regrets what so ever. If you think that doing these things are bad then I am not sure what you want for America????
In my humble opinion, we need a thousand more companies like OPDC across America.
No one is paid minimum wages at OPDC. There is vacation pay, and many other great benefits including all the free raw milk your family can drink.
To build a company and a brand is a personal decision. If we want a strong America we need small and large raw milk dairies…we all need to work together for one thing….the health of our country and the next generation.
Davids comments this time arround are very intersting.
I do not agree with his assessment of the judges decision. I know a little bit about Aajonus and I know that Aajonus scares the living hell out of judges. He is the pent-ultimate unconventional fighter and non-conformist. There are few on earth like him.
To assume that the judge is looking at a brief that is based on good facts, reasonable legal arguments and etc….is a big leap. Aajonus is not a lawyer. He is a guy with a big heart some very good ideas that are very well intentioned…but he is far from rational in the real world of how this all works.
If you want to kick some FDA ass, then you need a successful and professional FDA ass kicker like Jonathan Emord or Gary Cox. ( Gary kicked FDA butt in Fresno with me and I am extremly happy with his strategy and performance ). Sorry Aajonus, love you brother, but you are not in the legal league to go handing out butt bruises to the FDA through the legal system. This begs for embarrassment and failure.
To win a battle legally takes brains and strategic experience. It takes huge amounts of research, skill and money.
The place that Aajonus does well is with healing people using completely unconventional and primitive alternative nutritional medicine. That is a place where Aajonus is beloved by many. Aajonus, bless his coyote speaking, red meat eating soul, is not the guy to fight the FDA in court. He is perhaps a great harrassment tool, but that does not win the day or lawsuits with the FDA in federal courts. Judges see this coming 100 miles away and it is blown off as a distraction.
I would not measure a judges raw milk decision based on a an Aajonus submitted court document as a measure of a properly fought court fight with a truly great lawyer.
"Top level legal advisors that have looked at the cow share issue have clearly shared with us today, that the entire issue must be analyzed. It could very well be that if a cow share is really a consumer owned co producer contract…..that CDFA would completely leave them alone. Especially given that RMAC and RAWMI are available to assist.
"Until this is figured out, the working group has agreed to peace. Karen Ross opened the meeting by saying that her department was just trying to do their jobs and these public servants have recently been threatened and abused by the raw milk crowd.
"All at the meeting agreed to stop the abusive conduct and strive for a constructive effort to figure this thing out.
"I am proud of CA…..I actually saw CDFA acknowledging the growth and seriousness of the emerging raw milk market and the shortage of local raw milk….even with Claravale and OPDC operating.
"This is progress. This is a battle born partnership"……."
I might have been just as naive had I not sat down with high level officials at MA Dept of Agricultural Resources (MDAR) last October in Boston. As hopeful as I was to reach compromise, I was stunned by the lack of regulatory understanding about what really happens out here in the pasture. or maybe unaware of a more diabolical effort to claim control…. $5,000 is what they said it would take to meet their regulations for a raw milk certificate…beyond the $60,000 already spent.. This year I spent $9,000 on cement and wood and metal, not including the excavator, for a new milk room. All of the fresh milk cow dairies in the state had been converted from larger commercial operations…thus I didn't fit their formulas.
None of the state's grants apply- by their own admissions after they initially claimed funding was available. Grants are geared toward larger farms that offer employment- a key government buzzword-not small family farms.
I think you are right on spot with California's strange olive branch. People are making their opinions known and they don't like what regulators are doing.- I can only say that besides all you correctly cite, there is a passion…a feeling…a sense that the numbers will overwhelm. People are tired of government ignorance, and food rights are nearly as essential as the right to free speech.
As often as I get discouraged, I am heartened by people who are open to the idea of fresh milk, and fall in love with the taste…then the health benefits as a sweet surprise.
They include two well respected Superior Court judges in Litchfield, Ct. who know me as a court reporter and a farmer.
Had the question landed on their benches they'd have thrown the buggers at MDAR in jail for harassing me. Why are some judges more inclined to be in favor of herdshare and others not? I think it has to do in part with what Thoreau referred to as the "either or ness" of rural and urban, and an understanding that small farmers tend to be the careful ones- as opposed to profiteering corporate farms.
My supporters also include Massachusetts' governor who is a fresh milk drinker.
A top ranking state (Connecticut) Republican legislator, Sen. Andrew Roraback, sent a letter to Rep. Anne Gobi supporting the herdshare bill- Connecticut has much more liberal regulations and the Northwest Corner of the state has a promising future for small dairy farms.
And I had never heard a nun swear until last week when, while helping the sisters at a nearby Abbey, I heard of an inspector who criticized the use of a wooden board needed for the cows to cross over a manure drop to reach their stalls. It was clearly a matter of control rather than safety- government reminding the my friend who milks the cows that they couldn't stray over the rules…even onerous and unnecessary ones. At some point it all seems a regulatory power grab, and in the barn at The Abbey, this was clear. I have never seen a cleaner dairy than the Abbey's.
The enemy is not conceding, they are only gathering information in California. Fearful that public sentiment will overwhelm them, they are suddenly open to discussion to reach a compromise that will prove prickly.They are afraid of losing complete control . Herdshares are private contracts and should not need to involve regulators. period.
Consumers need to wake up now to protect their food sources, before they find their choices gone.
Brigitte Ruthman
Someone is looking at G Earth and asked me if you farm the land to the south, below your green area — between you and that poultry operation. I suggested they have Lola do a title search, but you might want to answer too.
Amanda
The McAfee Brothers own the land just north of the newly removed orchards ( the open land is our neighbors land). The OPDC land lies west of Jameson and terminates on McMullin grade to the west. It is half a mile wide measuring north to south and is a large rectangle with a diagonal western edge against McMulllin Grade. The northern edge abuts against almonds also owned by our neighbors.
Our 160 acres of almonds is located 1 mile north of Manning on Westlawn ave. At that point we own 160 acres to the north west of that location
We do not want a tax event to occur and cause a reassessment. BAD MOVE
Really? So Claravale wrote: "Jersey milk, available raw and pasteurized. According to their website, Claravale feeds their cows a diet of hay, feeds, and pastures, including grain. Reader Comments: A reader notes that she and her grain-sensitive patients cannot tolerate Claravale milk or other milk from cows fed grain." and referred to themselves in the third person and added a reader comment? Hmm….
If these are written by the farmers, then I ask of Mr. McAfee for the third time if he is going to share the same information that he has shared here and state that he too feeds some grains and change his "ad" on the Realmilk website to be more accurate?
As to your (now second) inference that Claravale uses GMOs, their website states:
"We feed our cows nothing but organic hay, organic dairy supplement, and organic pastures.
We do not use pesticides or antibiotics on the milking herd.
We do not use any GMO feeds or products.
We do not use bovine growth hormone or any other substances to increase milk production artificially.
We do not use chemical fertilizers or herbicides.
We do not bottle milk from any dairy other than our own."
What's your angle Goatmaid in answering for Mr. McAfee and misrepresenting Claravale??
Consumers need to wake up now to protect their food sources, before they find their choices gone."
Brigitte you are spot on. I couldn't agree more.
" Important Notes
All listings are at the sole discretion of The Weston A. Price Foundation. The Foundation accepts no moneys for the listings; the listings are not advertisements. "
It clearly states the listing are NOT ads.
"For the Fiscal Year 2010, the Foundation had gross revenues of $1,384,400 of which $465,900 came from membership dues and $317,000 from donations. The balance of revenues was from conference fees, literature sales and miscellaneous other income. "
I believe it was milkyway who asked who the biggest donator was to WAPF…s/he could always email them and ask.
However, it seems someone felt strongly enough about not being able to tolerate grain-fed milk that she wrote in to WAPF and asked them to insert the following notation: "A reader notes that she and her grain-sensitive patients cannot tolerate Claravale milk or other milk from cows fed grain."
However, had you read further down to subsequent ads, you'd see that same comment inserted in a few other California ads that admit they feed grain–but NOT IN ALL ADS that say they feed grains, so it's that person, not WAPF, that seems to have a problem.
Check out the ads in other states as well, and you will see that it's your bias that's showing, RMA, not WAPF. You're the one who, like Amanda (or perhaps even in alliance with), seems to have a special grievance against Mark and OP, enough to check out all references to them across the internet…. I'd never even heard of Cornucopia until you brought it up.
Even if Claradale didn't write their own ad, they are certainly free and able to update it if they don't like what's up there. Even pro-grain people are becoming aware of the dangers of GMOs, so Claravale should change their ad to show their GMO-free status if they feel so strongly about it; and while they're at it, include a link to their website so people can get Claradale info directly.
The reason Claradale hasn't, as likely happened with Mark, is that they've probably forgotten about the ad, up for who knows how many years. Even I forgot about my own ad before I finally remembered to take it down. And when I did, I looked at it askance, thinking, "Wow, I wrote THAT? I could've done much better than that!" LOL
For FYI, I am not connected with WAPF in any way. I did subscribe to their magazine for a year when I first heard about them some five years ago, but drifted away. Checking about your complaint about the ads was the first time I'd been back to WAPF's site in a long time.
By the way, Mark does not know me nor do I know him, other than on this blog. We have never met, he does not know my name, I doubt he even knows what state I live in. Even David G is not very familiar with me other than a few email exchanges relating to difficulties in commenting on this blog.
The reason I've been defending Mark (much to his surprise, I might add) is because I don't see much purpose behind these knife-sharpening attacks for what seems like forever, and I'm tired of reading them. I'd like to see more useful things being discussed other than how many cows he has on how many acres.
Also, for clarification, a mega-dairy is not 300 milking cows; a mega-dairy is 2,000 to 20,000 cows. We have hundreds of 200-300 cow dairies in my state and they are considered small dairies; we also have 1,000-4,000 cow dairies. Aurora Organic Dairy in Colorado milks over 4,000 cows.
I suppose one could, and probably will, argue that OP, as the largest raw-milk dairy, could be considered a "mega-dairy."
Whatever.
I do agree that perhaps Mark is not the best face to represent us small raw-milk farmers, but right now… he IS the only one. So, better to have SOMEONE than no one.
You're missing the boat. A "mega-dairy" isn't so much about how many cows a farmer milks, though that has a lot to do with it, it's about the business model he employs. The "mega-dairies" in my area are owned by people who spend their time behind a computer crunching numbers on a spreadsheet while hired people milk the cows and do the fieldwork. This is the business model Mark employs, but I'd wager it is not the business model that most in the raw milk movement employ.
Let me ask – when did the raw milk movement need "leaders" and "faces"? When I first caught wind of this movement it was about direct connection between farmer and consumer. This movement existed because we were each our OWN leader. A true grassroots movement.
But like all other grassroots movements, eventually de-facto "leaders" appear and the members of the movement concede their power to them, under the guise of "the good of the movement". That's how every single grassroots movement gets watered down and sold out. "We have to get legitimacy in the public's eyes; we need to play nice with the regulators; we're doing it for our own good!"
Nothing changes and we can't see it. IF YOU ARE DOING, YOU ARE LEADING. You don't need a blogger to write about you, you don't need a write-up in a local paper. If you are providing good quality food, you are making a difference. And that will ripple through your community. YOU ARE THE LEADER. Let's not concede our power to anyone else, or else we risk becoming a watered down version of ourselves.
Well said. Diversity is our strength.When our agricultural system breaks down,which it is doing as we watch,we will need all sizes and kinds of alternatives to replace it.In this situation it is better strategy for each of us to focus on doing things the way that they make sense to each one of us.Uniting behind someone else's standard will weaken us rather than strengthen us.Time will tell which systems are most successful.
Are you protecting our most critical, basic, rights? Are you eliminating useless laws?
Are you eliminating useless regulations? Are you fighting against, exposing, fraud?
Are you fighting against the misuse of law and regulation?
As I understand it, the trans fats that are so thoroughly damaging to our physiology and so embedded in our processed and prepared foods, these trans fats come in triple, double, and single types. Yet the regulation that says OK to label a food as Contains Zero Trans Fats was written specifically and only in regards to the triple trans fats. So the triples are split-up into either a two and a one or into three ones and then such a product can be labeled Contains Zero Trans Fats. Do I misunderstand the situation? If I do not misunderstand the situation, what shall I say about such a monstrosity? Oh Mark? Mark! Tell me, with more ultra-specificity, about your cows. Come now. Or being raked over the coals for stale information? I hardly ever look at OPDCs website. Its pretty stale update-wise and has been for quite a long time as far as I can tell. I go where the information flows. The complete patient is one of those places.
Isnt this hyper-spotlighting uselessly aimed at the producers, large and small, that you can see through the window of the complete patient? Cows, goats, sheep, camels have been milked time-out-of-mind, and the milk drunk, and soured, and fermented, and cheese made and all eaten. Whats the beef? Will we, by law, enfeeble all by enforcing safe food that only ___% require due to their weakened condition? Can I not choose my food? Can I not choose my food producer? And I dont just mean choose between the high shelf or the next shelf over at the supermarket. And do the courts that begin to see these issues fear contamination of the jury pool? Excuse me? The light of education and publicity and discussion- that has become inimical to justice? That could only be the wolf of injustice cloaked in the sheepskin of justice.
The point of a governmental sword backs up each law, big or small. Everything that is fixed by a law adds to the law pack (think of the snow pack). When the inevitable avalanche occurs it will break and smother everything in its path. If we do not govern ourselves, free of the tyranny engulfing us, we will be smothered and broken in an avalanche of law. We must learn the ways of liberty and freedom. We must accustom ourselves and our society to liberty and freedom. We only, now, have this or that tyrant or would-be tyrant fighting over who controls us and we are asked to participate by blessing one or the other tyrant with our votes. The desire to live in freedom and liberty extends far beyond our borders. Plenty of people the world over yearn for this. God help our country in this hour of need.
Coyoteblog.com is articulate on these points, see: This is an AWESOME Idea. I Want to Propose California Do Much More of This, August 30, 2011, 10:36 pm.
To Health!
Mr. J. Ingvar Odegaard
The email from Mark Kastel of Cornicopia today says that:
OPDC keeps its five star rating with the adjustments and clarifications. Thought you all would like to know…. :-))
Here is one for you all…really cool!
Organic goes really cool and hip….
HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.
I appreciate the comment by Mr. J. Ingvar Odegaard: "If we do not govern ourselves, free of the tyranny engulfing us, we will be smothered and broken in an avalanche of law. We must learn the ways of liberty and freedom. We must accustom ourselves and our society to liberty and freedom. We only, now, have this or that tyrant or would-be tyrant fighting over who controls us and we are asked to participate by blessing one or the other tyrant with our votes. The desire to live in freedom and liberty extends far beyond our borders. Plenty of people the world over yearn for this. God help our country in this hour of need."
Based on what I have seen overall in comments being made here I'd say this one by Ingvar offers an excellent piece of feedback!
There does appear to be some commentators who realize that the small dairy farmers could be self regulated. That could be one example of "self government". There are more examples.
However, the farms that are owned by corporations are a different animal and I don't know if this is the place for me to begin talking about that subject matter.
The main point made by Ingvar for me is: "learn the ways of liberty and freedom". I believe that those ways have been known before and so they surely can be known again! I believe that hey were known before the creation of the federal government when Americans were functioning in truly self-governing ways. The very best thing I think I can say is I am all for any efforts toward learning "the ways of liberty and freedom"!
I can see at least three general pathways with the first two of these absolutely entitled to progressing in this direction "of liberty and freedom". One is total self-sufficiency and that means if someone wants milk for their self and/or their family that they get the animal of their choice and milk it. The second pathway would be a contract-based relationship with someone else to have the care of the animal/s and probably do the milking. The third is to buy it at retail. (At this time, I like the contract pathway the most! However, I also have a dream of living on a farm and milking my own milk!) Re: pathway #3 – I'm not against the retail pathway however I don't know whether that offers liberty and freedom for the farmers. Maybe it does, but I'm not a farmer and maybe only the farmers can speak to that! But I do see the contract pathway being trampled upon and apparently contrary to what I believe is a Sovereign Right to contract without impairment by government.
The acts of trampling upon what may be one of our most fundamental of Rights has gotten my goat! In every instance that I have knowledge of this kind of trespass I find myself wondering why isn't there "No Trespassing" signs posted at the entrance of these sites with a warning that trespassers will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law? (See The Real Dirt On Farmer John.) Now that the so called "war" has been in motion (for how many years now) I have wondered why I have not seen or heard that there was some kind of gate-keeping at the entrances where the (potential) trespassers were refused entrance? Every private "club" has the Right to have an armed guard at their entrance. Every private home has the same Right. I also wonder why I don't see every individual situation demanding to see search warrants (and examining hard copies for wet ink signatures by a judge) and then deciding whether or not Lawful authority has been given for a search and/or seizure.
All of which convinces me that the most fundamental knowledge and understanding of our Sovereign Rights is largely missing among the American people. I invite feedback on the statement I just made. Is it true or not/ If it's true then it seems to me that knowledge and understanding is urgently needed now! I am willing to work with others who want to acquire that knowledge and understanding. I think a website could be built for that purpose and that we could be having all the conversations needed on how to get that knowledge and understanding. That is a direction I would love to move in.
Truly,
Chef Jem
"Raw Milk: The Whole Truth":
http://curezone.com/blogs/f.asp?f=1452
Your comment did post on 9/5/2011. It is the 59th comment to David's post, "The Bottom Line Reality of the Rawesome Case: People Have Lost Access to Their Food–Base Cruelty…or a Crime?" on Thursday, August 18, 2011 at 09:29AM.
As to the matter of education regarding the self-governance of a society of free peoples- The Federalist Papers is one place to read and a very good one; the true roots are earlier of course, in the years 1676 to 1776 (a one-hundred-year interval, chosen arbitrarily). There is a glimpse of the building of the foundation of such a society in that time and place in nine or so essays under the heading The Theological Foundations of a Just Rebellion (TFJR) at Philip Weingarts plumbbobblog.com. Rebellion is a serious wrong, and they understood and believed that to their core. Over the years, I will say, as you read widely and generally, a different (and pleasant) breeze comes upon you, a clue here, a clue there. It is the air of freedomand its attendant responsibilities, always its responsibilities (and concepts). It might be a mere paragraph in a book or a short statement by someone. Naturally it becomes easier to spot after a while. It is so different from so much of ouratmosphere. When I read The Captive Mind by Czeslaw Milosz (1953), I saw things described, defined, and narrated that had always been part of my life- in America! Participating in a local Toastmasters club can be helpful to just about anyone to practice thinking clearly, to stand on your own two feet and yet accommodate and respect the right of others to express themselves. At Toastmasters one can learn about General Roberts and his Roberts Rules of Order. As Dennis Prager of the radio talk show world is wont to say: I prefer clarity to agreement. To embrace the way of personal freedom, enlarged to a whole society, and even to sacrifice for this goal, leads to good. It was never said to be easy. But it is right, in that it is the best fit for what we are. Those fifty-six who signed the Declaration of Independence subscribed to a document that ended thusly: with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor. They sought a way; it was a dark and dangerous way, now a celebrated achievement, an achievement on which lives and fortunes were spent. And in cases, consumed completely. For us they did so, as they were looking far ahead. Can we do as much? Do we know how? Are we willing? I dont think Divine Providence has evaporated between then and now- that wouldnt be Divine. Will we give it a go? Young and old? Baby boomers? Generation X, Y, Z?
I am glad that you love freedom and that you think on these things!
Mr. J. Ingvar Odegaard