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Sunday
Jan152012

Why Conflict Over RAWMI Need Not Hurt Food Rights Movement; One Organization's Mission Statement

The unsettling news about questionable factory foods just keeps coming.

A few days ago, it was Coca Cola saying it found a fungicide in orange juice it produces in Brazil for sale in the U.S.

A few days before that, the USDA was proposing to approve GMO corn that will be based in part on the herbicide of Vietnam War fame, Agent Orange.

Last year, it was 36 million pounds of Cargill turkey contaminated with antibiotic-resistant salmonella.

Before that, it was news that more than two-thirds of our chicken is contaminated with campylobacter and/or salmonella, while the public health community looks the other way, and focuses on shutting down dairy farms.

Shoppers Saturday at Norwich Farmers Market crowd produce and other stands. Each time we are reminded of the truly scary dangers in our food system, the marketplace for nutrient-dense foods expands. Each time we learn that we face an increasingly serious risk of being poisoned by legal and illegal adulterants in our food--GMOs, mercury, fungicides, antibiotic-resistant pathogens, and so forth--more people become wary of buying their milk, meat, eggs, cheeses, and vegetables out of the factory system. Each time a new study shows a growing incidence of asthma and allergies, or the dangers of nitrites, artificial sweeteners, and high fructose corn syrup, the unease about shopping at Kroger's and WalMart increases.

Before you know it, you have a growing army of disillusioned consumers ever more open to joining a food club, or buying into a herdshare arrangement, or venturing out to farmers markets. (The photo above is of some of the crowd that turned out yesterday in sub-freezing temperatures for an indoor farmers market in Norwich, VT.)

Equally significant, these individuals become receptive to the arguments of the budding food rights movement.

One of the facts that stuck out to me in Blair McMorran's incisive examination of the benefits of raw milk testing protocols was this little aside: in Colorado, "at least 20 (raw dairies)...have just started up."

Yes, conventional dairies continue to fold. But raw milk dairies have launched, or converted from conventional production, in significant measure because there is a lucrative growing market for raw dairy and other unprocessed natural foods. The same thing has occurred in California with herdshares, not to mention many other states.

This growing market demand may well turn out to be the saving grace in the growing controversy over RAWMI, and the standard-setting/oversight issues that many here worry about.

Toni Baer lamented in a comment following my previous post, "From my European and scientific perspective nothing is worse within a small movement, if people start attacking each other openly on websites. It only helps those who are against you, which are those who want to get rid of the raw milk."

I don't doubt the enemies of food choice and freedom take pleasure in the disagreements here. But they may be taking false comfort. The marketplace is smarter than many of us. As people become ever more worried about their health and the health of their families, they will seek out information about making changes.

Part of what we're talking about is the difference between a trend and a movement.

A market trend is simply that, a move by increasing numbers of people toward particular kinds of products and services. Sometimes it's a matter of popularity (music) and fashion (clothes, accessories) and sometimes a trend grows out of fear.

In the case of health, a seemingly healthy market trend (toward nutrient-dense foods) can be subverted by a combination of corporate marketing (providing its version of "safe" and "natural" food) and government propaganda (those people organizing the movement are a bunch of kooks and weirdos and disdain "science").

The key question for those of us worried about the trampling of food rights, is whether the trend--fear of tainted food that is driving ever larger numbers of people to seek out good food--can be transformed into a movement. I don't pretend to be an expert in the development of movements, but I do know they unfold in significantly different ways.

We tend to think of the Civil Rights movement as having burst onto the scene in the 1960s under the leadership of Martin Luther King Jr., but the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) was actually founded in 1909.

The Occupy Wall Street movement and all its spinoffs seemingly materialized over a few weeks last year...and then just as quickly dissipated...or did it?  

Look at the women's rights, gay rights, and home schooling movements, and you will see different dynamics in each.

We don't yet fully appreciate the dynamics of the food rights movement. My sense is that it will take a heavy focus on local organization, rather than some top-down approach. The local organizations need to take responsibility for publicizing particular local events, like last week's arraignment of Wisconsin raw dairy farmer Vernon Hershberger.

Gayle Loiselle was rightfully upset that Hershberger's private contract distribution approach didn't get a clearer presentation in the media. It "was a missed opportunity because the media was there and ripe for the picking but the most credible well-spoken media savvy heavy hitters in the raw milk movement were not. With at least 2 networks there the message of choice…individual rights … and the abuse of power by the government… could have all been spun into powerful sound bites by those who know how to use the media to the best advantage."

I agree, but those "media savvy heavy hitters" aren't necessarily the ones the media even want to hear from--very often, they prefer articulate local people, who are most familiar with the circumstances at hand. I know some local leaders were on hand for the demonstration outside the courthouse on behalf of Hershberger. Perhaps they need training, as Loiselle suggests, to make sure Hershberger's message comes through. Maybe that becomes part of the education focus of the Raw Milk Institute.

All by way of saying, we shouldn't necessarily fear a variety of organizations (like the Raw Milk Institute, the Raw Milk Freedom Riders, the Farm Food Freedom Coalition, Food Sovereignty, Alliance for Raw Milk, Weston A. Price Foundation, Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund, etc., etc. ) Nor should we fear serious debate as a means to inform and help people crystalize their views.

So the big unanswered question right now is whether the trend toward serious worry about the quality of our factory food will translate into a sustainable growing movement for the right to access the foods of our choosing. Since the trend isn't likely to abate any time soon, we have expanding opportunities to get the movement into shape.

***
Deborah Peterson expressed frustration, following my previous post, about developing mission statements. Since she mentioned it, here's one just completed by the Raw Milk Freedom Riders. I think it's pretty decent.

"The Raw Milk Freedom Riders are dedicated to overturning the FDA's criminalization of interstate raw milk shipments as a way to end the agency's ongoing assault on dairy farmers and the consumers they serve.  The assaults include raids on small dairies that distribute raw milk, undercover investigations of ordinary citizens who consume raw milk, and assorted efforts to destabilize private food clubs, among other actions.

"We are committed to intentionally defying the interstate ban as a way to publicize the reality that raw milk isn't a public health hazard and to publicly expose the FDA’s violent acts listed above.

"We demand that the FDA leave raw milk decisions entirely to individual states, and respect the rights of individuals to enter into private contracts with farmers to obtain the foods of their choice."

The Raw Milk Freedom Riders have already held two demonstrations involving civil disobedience. And the organization will have a booth at the upcoming Constitutional Sheriffs Convention Jan. 29-31.

***

Here's an in-depth look at one slice of the food rights struggle...and a pretty fair one, at that, from The New American magazine. Includes some worthwhile history, as well. Also, it provides the views of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, without bowing to them.

And an interview with me on Agricultural Insights web site, about the government crackdown on raw milk, by Chris Stelzer.

Reader Comments (67)

A large part of me is amazed that Mark isn't the first to comment! :)

I read the New American article, and it was a very good overview of the issues surrounding raw milk. I think the only thing I would really fault it on is what we are seriously failing to address here, and that is the economic impact of reclaiming our agricultural traditions and rights. There is an awful lot of work to do to make a truly substantiated breakdown of this, but it is terrifically important issue that needs to be addressed.

If the facts that I have heard bandied about within my state are accurate, the dollar that stays on the dairy farm in this state (commercial and "normal" distribution chains) goes through the state 4x. Therefore, a simple presumption, but apparently quite likely, if the food dollars stay within the community instead of going to mega marts -that are importing 78% of produce, and consolidating the numbers of farmers- we should be able to have that food dollar go through our own community more like six times. This should increase the buying power and economic viability of communities in general.

There is a tremendous rural sociology paper out there comparing two very similar communities. One was surrounded by a couple of corporate farms, the other by roughly the same acreage in "mom and pop" farms. The standards of living were compared, and in the second community, people had more, were more content, and work was more profitable and poverty less. Why? Because the smaller farms bought within the community and the dollar moved through the local market places instead of on a train straight out of the area to the corporate headquarters.

This is the largest issue in the local food movement, and we are not effectively addressing it. If we want economic viability, it comes from being able to reap profit from our labor and exchange the products of our labor in a level playing field marketplace. Since we haven't had that by design for fifty plus years, we have lost our food quality, our small community quality, and the China Mart mentality is not the model we need to follow to get out of it.

Obviously, buying local should be more than a socio-economic fashion statement.It's actually a self preservation tool!

Thanks for listening!
January 15, 2012 | Registered CommenterDoreen Hannes
Doreen,
I couldn't agree more. What's astounding to me most immediately about the assault on food rights is that politicians who rant and rave about the importance of creating and saving jobs (like Obama) can sanction the wholesale elimination of jobs by endorsing the FDA's scorched earth policy on "food safety."

In your state, when FDA went after Morningland Dairy and shut it down, six jobs were immediately eliminated, and an unknown number more lost via the ripple effect, when Morningland discontinued buying products and services within its community. The hysteria over "safety" has made such discussions about economic development and economic impact verboten.

Of course, it all enters into the larger picture of economic development that you describe. To the extent that locally-based farms are encouraged to develop and grow as locally-based entities, the entire community benefits in untold ways, economically and socially. Conversely, to the extent the corporations are given free rein to suck farming communities dry. entire communities suffer in untold ways.

We see the effects of all this as a society because so many of our politicians now effectively work for the corporations.

David
January 15, 2012 | Registered CommenterThe Complete Patient
Thank you David for bringing more emphasis that it is not only freedom to raw milk, but for all the other healthier, nutrient rich, unadulterated foods that are so important to our health & wellness. I, too, have seen a tremendous increase of people to all of our local San Diego farmers markets, but most importantly these newbies to the markets are asking important questions about healthier choices & prevention of governmental interference to these choices. So much has been done to jeopardize our foods, without many even realizing it. Soy came out quite some time ago as a replacement for many bad phoods, but now it is known that that Soy is just as bad, if not worse due to the Soy being a GMO product. I'm not sure if many here on this blog are aware that 93% of the soy is GMO'd! That's why too high of a percentage & totally unacceptable. You mentioned about 2/3rds of chicken in the stores as being contaminated, again too high of a percentage & totally unacceptable. I was in my local Whole Foods yesterday & I don't know if this is now prevalent in all Whole Foods nation wide or only here in San Diego, but all of the chicken products are from smaller chicken producers, the chickens are not housed, they have free run of the outdoors, no over crowding, local to the area, are not fed antibiotics or growth hormones, are very healthy, no illnesses, etc. These are the only chickens now sold by my Whole Foods. They no longer accept any other chicken products. They freely give out the farms information, where they are located & anyone can visit them at any time. Likewise, they are doing the same with their other meat products, phasing out all the standard, big operation meat producers & replacing them with local sourced meat products that follow the same strict requirements. There really is so much to keep on top of with regards to our food supplies, but it needs to be done. On the other end of all of this, is the need to make all the governmental agencies know that we will not stand for anything less & that they need to begin making the big producers responsible & accountable for all the harm that has been done, the rampant contaminations, poor quality, animal abuses & so on. We must make these agencies well aware that they will not stop us from our right to healthier, responsible, nutrient dense, unadulterated foods, whether it be raw milk products on down to heritage (before alterations)produce & meat products. They must be made to realize that we will no longer accept the alterations of these products that places profits over people!
January 15, 2012 | Registered CommenterDeborah Peterson
Deborah, I have seen the stat about GM soy. GM corn is almost as high. Many of the chemicals in processed foods are derived from corn... corn. Given that they just approved a GM sweet corn, look to ALL corn and it processed food derivatives to be GM. What is even scarier is the approval of GM alfalfa. The USDA, when approving it, put into place a system to compensated organic farmers when genetic drift happens (NOTE - not IF it happens but WHEN it happens. They know organic fields will be contaminated). There are some that exclaimed that "hooray", now the biotech companies will have to pay instead of suing the farmers when drift happens (as has been the case thus far). The way I see it, there will be a government program to compensate farmers that biotech may have to pay into, but it is still a tax operated program, which we have to pay for. AND, it means that IF we know drift will happen and GM is not allowed in organic feed, farmers will either have to pull out of organic OR they will have to include GM in the organic definition. Which do you think they are shooting for? I suspect the latter. Look to the narrowing of our food choice even further. This is really a scary scenario and seems to be a fight almost too big. And it really angers me that it could get this far and most people don't seem to care. Education is key. The development of a strong movement is really necessary. Working together to get there is imperative.
January 16, 2012 | Registered CommenterJennifer Feeney
There is a free flyer I had picked up the other day at the grocery store here in Little Rock. It is called 'The Mature Arkansas' dated Jan 12, 2012.

It has a story titled 'Seniors driving local food movement'. They interviewed farmers from Hot Springs CO-OP, etc. It stated that "locally grown food had been growing by about 10% a year since 2000" "Nearly 80% of those starting small scale beef production will not make it to the 3rd year and virtually none make it in the long haul", "There are lots of want-to-be farmers who really don't know what they are getting into. There really isn't anywhere to turn to on this type of production unless you know someone." "The USDA is mostly irrelevant for local small-scale farmers. Of its near billion-dollar-a-year-budget in Arkansas, 80% of the money goes to the top 10% largest farms. They get an average of $64000 a year. Everyone else gets $760. "

The farmers markets and co-ops are increasing, it is a slow process. As said here many times, each time there is an out break - it drives more people to seek healthier foods, more eyes are opened to what the system is.

I think the article in whole is very positive. Over-all people need to be taught about their foods.

I attempted to post before this one and got a message that it had to be cleared before posting. I did attach a link to it...not sure what changes David is doing, it is understandable.
January 16, 2012 | Registered CommenterSylvia Gibson
Apparently, we're not allowed to post links anymore? I posted a comment with a link several days ago, just after comment approval started, and it never showed up.
January 16, 2012 | Registered CommenterGoatmaid
It is abysmal that the infiltration of GMO foods has happened to our food supply and that so much of our poultry supply is contaminated with pathogens (which is meant to be cooked and that kills the pathogens), but I don’t understand what this has to do with producing high quality, safe raw milk. I am probably as stunned as Mark McAfee at the conflict that has been generated over the idea of establishing safety standards for the production of raw milk. I think it is one of the areas that Mark and I agree upon. If you don’t prove you are serious about producing safe raw milk, when outbreaks occur the hammer is going to come down hard.

Why is everyone so fearful about establishing/sharing best practices for producing the safest raw milk possible? I just don’t get it.

Food Safety News wrote something about the colostrum issue in California. I couldn’t post the link because then I couldn’t post the comment. If anyone is interested in reading it, they will have to go over to Food Safety News and take a look.
January 16, 2012 | Registered CommenterMary Martin
Doreen, Jennifer and Deborah posted excellent responses.

Mary, for many it is about food rights, not just raw milk. As a human it is my right to choose what I wish to consume just as it is your right as a human to choose. Obviously tptb aren't only focusing on raw dairy. They are targeting all foods to control.

I would doubt the majority of dairy farmers don't engage in safe standards. It would be suicide if they or any other farmer didn't practice safe standards. I would bet that most farmers follow some sort of basic standard of sanitation. Why would they need someone to come and write a mandatory standard? Any good farmer will teach about what they do and their product.

What kind of "proof" do you need to assure you that the milk is safe? I felt very safe in drinking the milk I got from the cow share in Ca. I did not need to look at any lab results, I talked to the farmer, I observed the milking, I listened while the whole process was being done.

There is no proof that foods sold in stores are safe to consume and they sicken more people yearly than raw dairy does.
January 16, 2012 | Registered CommenterSylvia Gibson
I thought this post from the last thread was interesting and am re-posting it:

Cow Share Canada has never been transparent. There are a few, and I do mean a few people in Canada that know something about the organization. Most others just stand back and scratch their heads wondering what Cow Share Canada is.

If you ask Cow Share Canada for the standards they feel Canadian raw farmers should be using, you will be told one of two things. 1. You have to pay the yearly fee to Cow Share Canada before any information will be given. 2. You must take Cow Share College.

Why should farmers, some who have cow shares and some who are just selling a little milk on the side have to fork over hard earned money to find out what the standards are?

In Canada the term dirty raw milk is thrown about quite a bit. The thought behind that is all these farmers who have raw milk leaving the farm in whatever form (herd share/cow share./selling) have dirty milk, and only Michael and Cow Share College graduates have clean milk. If that was the case, Canada would have an epidemic of sick, dying, or dead raw milk drinkers!

If someone has standards for how raw milk should be produced then please share them free of charge with everyone!

You get to test drive the car before buying, but you can't see the standards without buying a membership first, and quite possibly without signing up for Cow Share College first! I'd say that's pretty transparent, right Mark?

Nothing will change with regards to how a lot of Canadians feel about Cow Share Canada until they truly become transparent!
January 16, 2012 | Registered CommenterAya Simms
January 16, 2012 | Registered CommenterSylvia Gibson
Mary Martin,
Not sure if you are trying to be humorous with this comment: "If you don’t prove you are serious about producing safe raw milk, when outbreaks occur the hammer is going to come down hard."

I think you know by this time that even if you can prove you are serious about producing safe raw milk, and there are no outbreaks, the hammer can come down hard. And that partly explains the reluctance about RAWMI. Some farmers feel RAWMI will turn into a regulatory-type organization, in partnership with government regulators, who have shown themselves to be highly arbitrary about correlating food safety and "the hammer."

Separately, I have not introduced any new features regarding comment approvals or links. I am trying to find out if some bug in the system.

David
January 16, 2012 | Registered CommenterThe Complete Patient
Mary, if you think producing clean raw milk is just about safety standards and testing, then you can't see the forest through the trees. The availability of healthy feed, the availability of farmland, the availability of farmers to be able to contribute to a viable local economy are all a part of the production of healthy clean raw milk. Government policy, GMO's, factory farms... they ALL contribute to the above factors. If you just set up tests but don't provide the environment in which to produce clean raw milk, you are doing nothing to contribute to its safety. I think about the e.coli tests used at the beaches in Chicago, near where I live. They have tests to determine if the water contains possible pathogens. These tests provide results AFTER kids have been swimming in the dirty water and they do nothing to address the environmental factors which created the contamination in the first place. In the case of raw milk, the issue is not just about feces in the milk. It is about giving the farmer the environment in which to care for his/her animals in a way which is healthy and clean, and in turn you produce healthy and clean raw milk. Most farmers know this. And really, standards, testing, and government interference in our food system hasn't exactly provided us with a happy, healthy, safe way to live. We have GMOs, CAFOs that are producing all kinds of terrible environmental problems, super-bugs, obesity, diabetes, etc. This from a government approved food system.


And I have to ask, would you sue your Uncle if he made your child sick from the food cooked at a family picnic? Would you institute standards, and testing, and health officials to monitor this and haul him away to jail or pay huge fines?
January 16, 2012 | Registered CommenterJennifer Feeney
David-

Mary is serious.

Those of us who have formal training in HACCP and who work in FDA regulated environments know how serious these food safety issues are. This doesn't mean I agree with the FDA. I have many disagreements, from rBGH, GMOs, antibiotics and drugs in the food supply, our society's over-reliance on pharmaceuticals, to the relative risks of raw milk. It just means that I understand how the system works and why it is this way.

I share many of the concerns about the increasing corporate control of the food supply, and in particular, the concentration of agricultural land ownership into fewer and fewer hands.

However, I do not believe the solution is more of this "laissez-faire" attitude. Rather, what is needed is an intentional grassroots effort to redesign our food system in a more democratic fashion. "Laissez-faire" individualism ultimately works only for those who are already wealthy, privileged, and (in the case of farming) own land. It will not work for the majority of people, especially of my generation, who are currently alienated from food production and agriculture by no fault of our own.

In my opinion, RawMI is defunct and will not be successful. Instead, raw milk farmers who are serious about food safety need to come together and form their own trade organization to establish food safety standards if they want to prevent the "hammer" of state and federal regulatory agencies from coming down on them. Unfortunately, the worst raw milk producer will reflect poorly on the rest, even those who are clean and responsible. Unless the rest of the producers are prepared to demonstrate their commitment to food safety, we will continue to see raw milk criminalized and driven into a black market.

That is just the reality of the situation, like it or not. I did not make it this way, I just understand this reality and have tried to do something about it.

We have to learn to keep this raw milk issue in perspective, and not get too wrapped up in ourselves and our own little worlds. Raw milk is but one part of the food movement, and indeed, the food movement itself is but one part of the broader movement for social and environmental justice and grassroots democracy.

Happy MLKjr day, everyone!

"The means by which we live has outdistanced the ends for which we live. Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men." -~ Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

"You can't talk about solving the economic problem of the Negro without talking about billions of dollars. You can't talk about ending the slums without first saying profit must be taken out of slums. You're really tampering and getting on dangerous ground because you are messing with folk then. You are messing with captains of industry. Now this means that we are treading in difficult water, because it really means that we are saying that something is wrong with capitalism. There must be a better distribution of wealth and maybe America must move toward a democratic socialism". ~ Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
January 16, 2012 | Registered CommenterBill Anderson
Jennifer - that is correct about the GMOd corn, the only reason that I didn't mention them is because unlike Soy, Corn has not been used as a replacement like Soy for meat & dairy products. Unfortunately, what was supposed to be a safe & better alternative to meat & dairy products have now become a highly dangerous product. Who knew that Monsato would have dug in deep into the Soy product & turned it into a Franken phood that has brought many health hazards on a very large scale, not to mention the airborne contamination to non-Monsanto, non-GMO Soy plants! My take on corn is that I only use fresh, certified organic corn for my salads, side dishes, etc. I do not buy any products where the chance that a GMOd corn ingredient may be present.

Mary - you may not see the connection between GMOd products & raw milk products, but there is a huge connection between the two. As others pointed out, the biggest connection is as Jennifer relates in her post. It is a very important factor in the availability to safe, natural, unadulterated, nutrient dense foods. As per my original intent on my previous post, I wanted to direct some of the discussions on this blog to all the other issues that plague us with regards to safer, beneficial foods, not just raw milk products alone. I am thrilled to see all these latest posts that have picked up on that & have opened additional posts & comments about all of this!! This is great, the more people that can be directed to all the issues...not just the raw milk product issues, the better in bringing about the needed changes that are so desperately needed.
January 16, 2012 | Registered CommenterDeborah Peterson
Blair posted here a few days ago about how many new farmers in Colorado are now producing raw milk. How will these new farmers learn everything they need to know to produce safe raw milk? Do they watch Tim Wightman’s videos and read Peggy’s Beals booklet. Is that the only information out there?

Raising cows or goats to produce raw milk is far different than growing vegetables to sell. Do people believe that just anyone can do this?

David, I was serious. There is just this F-you attitude within the raw milk movement—don’t tell us what to do or how to do it. I think it hurts the movement. It seems that everyone is freaked out about standards, what about a website that allows farmers to post best practices for the different types of milking practices? People can post anonymously, so they feel safe. This website can also have all the information about good soil, etc…needed to produce nutrient dense raw milk. The milk will only be as good as the food the cows or goats eat.
From what I see, the biggest drama is around people who are crossing state lines to get their milk. This is supposed to be a local movement. At the very least, local should mean purchasing food produced in your own state. Why would anyone risk getting the FDA into their lives? If you want raw milk, find a farmer in your own state. Unless there is an outbreak, I just don’t think anyone cares.

David, I obviously have a different perspective than you do. Farmers are BREAKING THE LAW when they take their milk across state lines to sell, and then they cry victim when they are caught. Raw milk is a state rights issue. If a person feels strongly enough about the need to consume raw milk, then move to a state where it is legal or buy a cow or goat.

Jennifer, I don’t eat food served at picnics. Too dangerous. People are stupid about food safety, especially if food has been left unrefrigerated. Besides, I eat healthy. Most people I know who would invite me to a picnic would not have food there I would eat.
January 16, 2012 | Registered CommenterMary Martin
I Live 10 miles from another state, so crossing state lines to buy food can still be supporting local food.
And yes, I believe nearly 'anyone' can produce safe raw milk if they have interest in doing so. Just as most of us can actually raise children to healthy productive adulthood without special training. Or can our garden produce. Common sense, an ability to process information and/or a good mentor is priceless.
January 16, 2012 | Registered CommenterJoelie Hicks
David

This is my third attempt at posting a comment I hope all three don’t appear at once.

For those who haven’t listened to the interview with Dr. Huber by Dr. Mercola then I urge you to go to the Mercola.com website and do so, since it parallels much of the discussion that has occurred on this blog about our relationship with plants, animals and organisms.

Dr. Huber states in the interview that, “Our Knowledge is so premature, so infantile that to assume that we have these silver bullets that you can just put into a revolver and spin the chamber for whatever stress or problems you have, just doesn’t work.”

Mary,
GMO technology has a great deal to do with high quality and safe raw milk. Read the above link and perhaps you will understand why.

Ken Conrad
January 16, 2012 | Registered CommenterKen Conrad
I started following this blog awhile ago and I vowed I would never post or get in the middle of this mess, but Mary, your comments are maddening.

Let's start with this:
"From what I see, the biggest drama is around people who are crossing state lines to get their milk. This is supposed to be a local movement. At the very least, local should mean purchasing food produced in your own state. Why would anyone risk getting the FDA into their lives? If you want raw milk, find a farmer in your own state."

It is ILLEGAL for a farmer to sell raw milk in my state. It is ILLEGAL for me to cross state lines to purchase raw milk. How am *I* supposed to get raw milk, Mary?

I will tell you how. I bought a cow. I milk my own cow for my family. She is a family cow. My ENTIRE life changed FOR raw milk. Did I know how to do this? NO. Did I know anything about cows? NO. Did I know anything about farming? NO.

I certainly do now. I would GLADLY pay somebody 6,8,10,12 dollars a gallon for raw milk. I am not allowed to. Where does this leave me? To do it myself. Do I even want to know what it costs me for my raw milk? No, I don't want to add it up. The food, hay, minerals, vet bills, milk machine, vacuum pump, getting my cow bred, the wood to build a stanchion, my TIME. My life revolves around my husband, my kids and this COW. All because my state outlawed everything raw milk a few years ago.

Mary, you ask "Do people believe that just anyone can do this?"

I did. And I am "just anyone". I grew up in the suburbs. Never went to the county fair. Never had a garden. My parents fed us "typical food". I was a normal kid.

I am opting out of the industrialized food system. And if I want my family to have milk (I do), this is how it has to be done.

I haven't killed anyone yet. Not even sickened anyone. I haven't even watched the videos you mentioned or read the booklet you mention (didn't know they existed). And guess what Mary? There are lots and lots and lots of others out there just like me...just anyones and we are just doing it...
January 16, 2012 | Registered CommenterKelly Hensing
David,

I think you're right about growing masses being alienated from the sickly factory farm food and demented drug pushing medical establishment. I would hope that someday we will be a majority, but I don't expect that any time soon. There are too many people brainwashed by the current system and all of its' misleading propaganda. I agree that our best strategy is education and a bottom up approach. That is where RAWMI could serve best, to provide open and transparent education to both farmers and consumers on what practices are best suited to raw milk production and safety. Also, a RAWMI certification could help to provide reassurance to the many new consumers that products will meet quality expectations.

I agree with Mary that testing standards are needed for large dairies, especially when the milk is sold retail at stores. In this situation, some kind of voluntary certification would be ideal and RAWMI could very well make this happen. For direct farm to consumer sales, voluntary certification could also be helpful for large operations where consumers don't have the chance to visit the farm, as could happen with raw milk sales at farmers markets - which I would really like to see in every state and every country. I also like the private model of sale from farm to consumer, whether it be by herd share or by food club. Voluntary certification could also be helpful for food clubs, because I suspect most food club members don't take the time to go and visit the farms.

I believe there should be different levels of certification for raw milk and I hope RAWMI will embrace this option. There should be a more rigorous voluntary certification for large dairies that sell to the retail market and a less rigorous and more affordable voluntary certification for smaller dairies that sell directly to consumers.

I met both Mark McAffee and Michael Schimdt at the recent Wise Traditions 2011 conference in November and I have the greatest respect for both of them. They both have dealt with considerable adversity and constant attention to every word they speak. I don't envy that position. We all make mistakes and I believe both of them will learn from their mistakes. I appreciate those who are honest enough to admit to mistakes and learn from them and I have seen this in both of these admirable men. I really appreciate their dedication and energy to promoting raw milk. For those on this list who believe they are Christian, where is the forgiveness? I believe forgiveness it a great character trait, regardless of religion.

I also appreciate this forum for exchanging ideas. I hope that we can focus on the important issues of promoting raw milk and food freedom and not get sidetracked by petty and detracting personal issues and personal attacks. David, I have learned much from your input, as well as those who comment here. Let's keep it civil and respect everyone's opinion, even if we disagree. I've changed my opinion more than a few times over the years :)
January 16, 2012 | Registered CommenterBryan - oz4caster
I really respect what Kelly has accomplished – getting a cow – and making it a success without any prior experience.

I likewise live in a state where buying raw milk is illegal. I am working towards the same goal – a family cow.

At present, I drive to Pennsylvania to buy milk. I get tried of making that drive every week. And the risks associated with driving are significantly greater than from drinking raw milk.
January 16, 2012 | Registered CommenterJoseph Heckman
To all...It seems the blog operator has implemented some new spam filtering program that requires me to approve some comments. Nice of them to tell me. Don't ask me the criteria it is using, especially since it is tagging some people who have long posted here. Anyway, if you get a message that your comment is being held for approval, that is apparently the case. I now know how to locate such comments, so should be able to approve them pretty quickly.

As for the problem with links, the blog operator isn't sure about that. Suggests that if anyone receives an error message or some other message when trying to include a link, to please forward a copy to me (david@davidgumpert.com). It may be there is no error message, and the links are just being filtered out. I'll try to learn more.

David
January 16, 2012 | Registered CommenterThe Complete Patient
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