Mark McAfee on Charges He Changes His Story: “What’s the Point?”
Friday, August 17, 2007 at 05:59PM I’ve long been of two minds on the illnesses involving the Martin and Herzog children, which their parents attribute to raw milk. On the one hand, I appreciate the suffering they and their families went through—I think anyone who has children can appreciate how terrible it must have been. I can also understand the desire by Mary McGonigle Martin and Melissa Herzog to get hard answers, make that final answers, as to what caused the illnesses, and also their frustration about slight changes in the explanations offered by Mark McAfee of Organic Pastures Dairy Co. as to what might have happened.
On the other hand, I sometimes feel as if the whole search for “truth” in these two cases puts raw milk under scrutiny that is way out of proportion to its role in food-borne illness in this country (where raw milk is merely a blip on the radar screen)…and that this blog contributes to that problem. The media don’t do this kind of dissection when listeria in deli meats sicken people, but they do all kinds of head stands when ag officials say listeria was found in some farmer’s raw milk, even when no one got sick.
As I said, I can appreciate the frustration Mary McGonigle-Martin feels over what she sees as variations in Mark McAfee’s explanation of what went on. So I called Mark and raised the issue with him.
Basically, he didn’t deny that his story may have changed a bit in the many re-tellings, but he seemed to say in response that how he explains what happened is irrelevant, since Organic Pastures has never been implicated in the problem.
“After everything is said and done, California accused me, the parents accused me, and nothing was found. Did (Mary’s) child have E.coli 0157:H7? No. So what’s the point? That’s my point. And if you’re going to say I made four kids sick, show me the bacteria” (that connects to Organic Pastures).
He added, “My heart goes out to her (Mary). She has the best of intentions. But the investigators did not find a connection…She is passionately filled with wishful thinking. What can I say?”
To Mark, the entire experience with Mary and Melissa is indicative of a larger cultural problem in the U.S.—our desire to find a culprit for whatever calamity we may be experiencing. “We are one of those countries that must have a diagnosis and figure out who’s responsible for a problem and hang them…Instead of looking at ourselves to build up our immune systems and exercise, instead we try to find ‘them’ and shoot ‘them.’”
He added, “It’s all about getting someone else to pay for your problem. It’s always someone else’s fault.”
He also sees our culture excusing side effects and deaths from drugs, and not being nearly so forgiving for food. The growing problem of illness from disease-resistant bacteria in hospitals “is all excused because drugs cure and foods don’t. It’s the great distraction.”
Is Mary being unreasonable in continually questioning a suspect who’s essentially been cleared by the most intensive investigation the authorities can undertake—authorities, mind you, who came into the investigation wanting more than anything to hang the suspect? Is Mark being unreasonable in not wanting to be held accountable for his answers to accusations of something he’s been cleared of, and instead wanting to talk about the bigger issues?
As Ken Conrad suggests, the state likely has all the information Mary is seeking. That may be the best route for her to take in her search for answers. I wish I had a more practical suggestion, but I don’t.
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Reader Comments (11)
His version of the story makes it sound like he was some victim blindsided by attacks about his dairy and that he had to become a detective to find us because no one would give him any information. We called him because we felt it was the responsible thing to do incase his milk was contaminated. We didn’t want anyone else to become ill. We also called the health food store regarding the spinach so they could contact the distributor.
As for the e-coli pattern number, there have been questions raised on this blog regarding the accuracy of the reports involving the matching blueprint of the sick children. I believed the report to be true. I’m just trying to find out if this information is accurate. All it will prove is that the children were sickened by the same food source.
I’m not trying to prove Mark’s milk made the children ill. You can’t prove something without hard facts. I’m just raising questions. If it wasn’t the milk, then what common food did they eat? I sure hope Mark took this seriously and tried to find the possible “e-coli leak” incase a small portion of his milk somehow became contaminated. I’m curious if all of his employees have been tested for e-coli 0157:H7. You can be a carrier without having any symptoms. I keep having visions of Ken Conrad’s cow poop stories….poop flying everywhere.
I guess Mark McAfee also knows more than the experts at Loma Linda Children’s Hosptial about e-coli 0157:H7 and HUS. Maybe the next time they have an ill child with an unconfirmed case of bacterial infection that turns into HUS, they can call Mark for his expert opinion.
Barriers are for those who have something to hide and therefore the need to control. As individuals we are becoming increasingly enslaved by our desire to control.
Ken Conrad
He was not victimized. He benefited from all the media exposure. He is a shrewd businessman. His profits are up and he has more people drinking his milk than before the children became ill. In a recent article I read, it stated that Mark has a new distributor and he is making a jump from selling his milk in 300 stores to 500 stores. His business is booming and I’m very happy for all the people who now have access to raw milk.
If he is 100% sure that his milk is not responsible for the children becoming ill then I believe he should show a little more respect to the suffering that these kids and families endured. He can show this respect by being honest about all the facts (what our kids ate) and details involved in the investigation of his farm (they didn’t test all of his cows and they did find e-coli 0157:H7 in one milking cow and two dry herd cows). He should not have a defensive response because I would want to know factual information about the blueprint pattern number of the sick children. This defensive response makes me think he knows this information to be true (his attorneys were able to obtain it).
It’s disrespectful to our families to make statements that “its wishful thinking” on my part because I’m trying to validate information. He’s making these insensitive remarks because he thinks I’m going to use this information against him. He's behaving like a guilty person. Actions always speak louder than words.
When Mark came to Loma Linda Children’s Hospital, he presented himself as a caring man who was trying to inform us of the true facts about all 4 of the sick children. He said the media was reporting false information. This is like calling the kettle black. He’s now doing the same thing to benefit himself. Mark McAfee runs an amazing dairy but he seems to lack good character.
Fanna Raw
I think that the "blueprints" you are looking for from Pulsenet are called "pulsed-field gel electrophoresis (PFGE) patterns". This might help you and the other parents be specific and find what you are looking for.
Good Luck!
PulseNet, the national molecular subtyping network for foodborne disease surveillance, was established by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and several state health department laboratories to facilitate subtyping bacterial foodborne pathogens for epidemiologic purposes. PulseNet, which began in 1996 with 10 laboratories typing a single pathogen (Escherichia coli O157:H7), now includes 46 state and 2 local public health laboratories and the food safety laboratories of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration and the U.S. Department of Agriculture. Four foodborne pathogens (E. coli O157:H7; nontyphoidal Salmonella serotypes, Listeria monocytogenes and Shigella) are being subtyped, and other bacterial, viral, and parasitic organisms will be added soon.
I’ve given thought to this statement and I can certainly understand David’s concern. Drinking raw milk from healthy cows is not inherently dangerous. There is an extremely small risk of drinking a batch that could be contaminated, and in my opinion, far less a risk than eating a hamburger. He’s pro raw milk and wants to encourage pro raw milk messages/information on this blog. I can appreciate this position.
I believe there is another perspective that can be taken about Chris illness. It’s not about raw milk; it’s about our vulnerability to foodborne pathogens, especially E-coli 0157:H7, in our entire food supply. When raw fruits and vegetables are at risk for foodborne pathogens, something is seriously wrong. Decentralization of our food supply has caused this problem. Chris’ illness makes the argument for buying locally grown and raised foods. Eating from our “typical” food supply is a disaster waiting to happen.
What caused Chris to become ill was e-coli 0157:H7, not raw milk. I don’t blame Mark McAfee. If his milk was somehow contaminated, it was not because of some negligence on his part. The bottom line is….life is not fair and sometimes bad things happen. Accidents happen. If he was a completely irresponsible dairy farmer, I’d have a different opinion. Raw milk dairy farmers are burdened with a huge responsibility and Mark’s perfect record proves that he takes numerous precautions in preventing pathogens from entering the raw milk he produces.
I believe OP raw milk is safe to drink. However, if some small batch of milk somehow became contaminated last year, I hope Mark brainstormed all the possibilities (how could this happen on a farm so scrutinized for pathogens) so it doesn’t happen again. Mark’s arrogant attitude towards government officials makes it hard to discern if he really believes his cows could “never” produce milk with pathogens. To quote Ron Schmid (author of The Untold Story of Raw Milk), “But to expect or demand perfection from any dairy would be ludicrous, and any raw food may on occasion carry pathogenic organisms that may precipitate illness in susceptible individuals”.
E-coli 0157:H7 is the bad guy and what caused my son to become ill. I found an epidemiologist while blogging and he helped me find some information. Here’s what he said about e-coli, “In the early 1980s, E. coli bacteria acquired the Shiga toxin gene from the Shigella dysenteria bacteria. It was the first time in the wild we saw bacteria of different species trading genetic material. Several different E. coli serotypes have acquired the gene, but most illness cases that have been documented were caused by serotype O157:H7. There are other shiga-toxin producing E. coli (STEC) though, and any of them can cause illness, and HUS.”
My son became ill from some sort of “freak” bacteria that is a direct result from our sick farming methods. In order to quickly fatten up cows, they are fed a high grain diet which is not natural to their digestive system. They also live in inhume conditions that put stress on their bodies. In order to prevent them from becoming ill, they’re loaded up with antibiotics. This somehow created a perfect environment for bacteria to trade genetic material. We now have to live in world with shiga producing e-coli. Thirty years ago this reality did not exist.
E-coli 0157:H7 is symbolic of what we are doing to our world. We have tampered with nature and there is a price to be paid.
My deepest gratitude to everyone!
Have a good evening Mary...Ill call you with my new cell number!
Give Chris a kiss for us.