The Complete Patient

Wow, it's serious. As someone who had asthma before drinking raw milk, I don't want to loose it either. Granted I am in Oregon, but that is 'very close' to CA. Between that and the incident at Dee Creek Farm in WA two years ago, I would not be surprised if OR is going to revise their laws. As it stands now, farmers can own 3 cows and sell the milk as long as it is not advertised. Or something like that. When raw milk sold as pet food got pulled from our shelves here after the Dee Creek incident in WA, it was made very clear to me when I called around to our legislators that the three cow and selling milk was them being nice. They were simply allowing this, regardless of the law that says it is forbidden to sell raw milk in OR. They can recant this 'being nice' anyt time. Grrrr....

Maria, did the Dee Creek incident in Washington bother you at all? Did a red flag of concern go up? What is your opinion about the e-coli 0157:H7 incident from an unlicensed cow share program?

Actually, I’m curious about what other people think also.

“We’re going to put $10,000 into testing pasteurized milk for pathogens. We’re going to buy commercial brands, test them, and post the results on our web site.”

This tactic sounds like it'd be a direct hit. I don't see the factory diaries cleaning up thier act. <snickering here> I bet it'll really tick em off. Bad publicity. (sp) And it would bring more internet traffic to OP.

Aren't there studies that show or elude that E-coli 0157:H7 evolved in the 1970s or 1980s? Seemingly from factory farming. Microbes like anything thing else, advance through survival of the strongest. The conditions of the animals environment, the feed they are fed and the processing technology only contribute to the increase in the microbes evolution. I don’t believe it is just one issue, I think it is a combination of factors that have brought forth this particular strain. (and probably many more strains of microbes)

I've said many times before, I am very picky about where my raw milk comes from, also any other food that I eat. If you sterilize food, wouldn't that kill all the vitamines, make them nutritionally worthless?

The spinach contamination last year showed that sanitary conditions are lacking. Was it the comtaminated manure run offs;Or the processing plants;Or both;that caused or contributed to the spinach contamination? I grow veggies in my garden, and use manure. I've never had a problem.

What caused the laws to force the almond pasturization? If it is the processing technique that is contributing, then change that, don't contaminate my food with chemicals. There was a study in, I think the early 80s that showed the growth hormone that is injected into dairy cows, contributes to breast cancer and other hormonal anomolies. Breast cancer has increased about 40% in the last 60 yrs in the US. As had osteoporosis increased- pasturized milk has 20-30% less calcium than raw milk.

I don't know about the Dee Creek incident, like many people, it didn't affect me. If that farmer was negligent or careless then he should be accountable.

I want to believe that most small farmers are honest and strive to maintain sanitary conditions, after all, they don't want to be put out of buisness. They don't have the money for lawsuits nor huge govt fines. I believe there is something to the saying "know your food source".

I don't have a problem with basic standards being set.Those standards should be obtainable by all, and if there are those who wish to move beyond those basic standards then more power to them. I do have a problem when not everyone is required to adhere to them or when they are put in affect to oust another. I also have a problem with being dictated as to what I can legally eat/drink. I don't want to milk any cows, at my age it is not something I wish to do. I have no problem paying another to milk a cow for me. If raw milk is outlawed, then why not other raw foods? And if it does become outlawed, I'll be in the market for a little Jersey.

Here is an updated list of some of the documented outbreaks due to PASTEURIZED milk. By the way, the FDA allows 10 coliform per ml and up to 20,000 bacterial count per ml for PASTEURIZED milk. Not only is Pasteurized milk a DEAD food, it has no immuno defenses to fight pathogenic contamination. Pasteurized milk is NO guarantee, nor is it sterile. All of the pathogens attributed to raw milk have been found in PASTEURIZED milk and caused grave illnesses. Due to the centralized nature of this processed food, the outbreaks are much more pervasive.

Some Outbreaks Attributed to Pasteurized or Processed Milk

1927 5,002 cases, 533 deaths from Typhoid in Montreal, Canada
1945 1,492 cases for the year in the U.S.A.
1945 300 cases, 1 outbreak in Phoenix, Arizona. 2
1945 Several outbreaks, 468 cases of gastroenteritis, 9 deaths, in Great Bend, Kansas.2
1965 Multi-state outbreak, 29 confirmed cases from Salmonella in powdered milk 3
1966 97 cases, all confirmed from Shigella flexneri in Florida4
1975 49 cases, all confirmed from Salmonella newport at a Military base in Louisiana4
1976 38 cases, all confirmed from Yersinia enterocolitica at a school in New York4
1978 68 cases, 1 outbreak in Arizona from S.almonella typhimurium4
1979 2500 cases, children ages 2-7 , from Campylobacter, England and Wales5
1982 17,000 + cases, 172 culture confirmed from Y. enterocolitica in Tennessee, Arkansas, and Mississippi, with over 100 hospitalized6
1983 49 cases, 14 deaths from Listeria in Massachusetts (NOTE: Listeria survived pasteurization)4
1984 16 cases, all confirmed from S. typhimurium in Kentucky4
1984 200 cases, first in a series of outbreaks starting in August, from S. typhimurium at one plant in Melrose Park, Illinois
1984 November, second outbreak S. typhimurium at same plant in Melrose Park, Illinois
1985 197,000 cases, 16,284 culture confirmed from antimicrobial-resistant S.typhimurium at same plant in Melrose Park, Illinois, 2 deaths with probable cause for 12 others7
1985 142 cases, 47 deaths including 19 stillbirths, 10 infant deaths from Listeria found in processed Mexican cheese in California (NOTE: the dairy that supplied the raw milk was vindicated – it was determined that the raw milk did NOT contain Listeria) 8,9
1985 860 pupils sickened by Staphylococcal enterotoxin in Meade County, Kentucky10
1985 contamination from cleaning supplies in Florida and California10

1985 to 1991 56 cases, 2 deaths from hypervitaminosis D overfortification in Boston, Massachusetts11
1986 33 cases, 1 outbreak from Campylobacter jejuni at a school in Vermont4
1991 37 cases from S. typhimurium in chocolate milk in Michigan (documented by CSPI)
1993 3 cases culture confirmed in infants, from Salmonella Tennessee found in powdered milk formula, Tennessee and Canada12
1994 45 cases, 11 culture confirmed from Listeria monocytogenes after pasteurization in Illinois4
1994 4 cases from Bacillus cereus in Minnesota (documented by CSPI)
1994 18 cases, 11 culture confirmed from E.coli 0104:H21 in Helena, Montana13
1994 105 cases, 3 outbreaks from E.Coli and Listeria in California
1994 72 cases, 1 death, 8 HUS cases, 3 resulting kidney transplants, West Lothian, Scotland 14
1994 69 cases from Listeria monocytogenes in chocolate milk multi-state (documented by CSPI)
1995 10 cases, all culture confirmed from Yersina enterocolitica after pasteurization in Vermont and New Hampshire4
1996 19 cases of Salmonella spp. at Nevada school (documented by CSPI)
1997 3 cases from Shigella faecalis in Wisconsin (documented by CSPI)
1998 6 cases from Campylobacter jejuni in South Dakota
1998 3 cases from Campylobacter spp. In New York (documented by CSPI)
1998 2 cases from E. coli 0157:H7 in Maine (documented by CSPI)
1998 47 cases from Salmonella typhimurium in Massachusetts (documented by CSPI)
!999 114 cases, 88 culture confirmed, 3 children with HUS from E.coli in North Cumbria, England15
2000 93 cases, 38 culture confirmed from Salmonella typhimurium after pasteurization in Pennsylvania and New Jersey4
2000 14,700 cases from S. aureus and Bacillus cereus, Japan, low fat and powered milk16
2002 116 cases from S. typhimurium at a school in Wyoming (documented by CSPI)
2002 52 cases from Norovirus at a school in Florida
2003 25 cases, all culture confirmed ( 18 children, 7 adults) from E.coli 0157 in Denmark17
2004 100 cases from Salmonella Newport in California (documented by CSPI)
2006 1314 cases from Campylobacter in California prisons

Totals for Pasteurized Milk Outbreaks
242,056 cases 624 deaths

Listeria totals for Pasteurized Milk
305 cases 61 deaths

The footnotes did not copy. Will gladly provide them.

I find the coliform count standard of 10 is easy to make. My counts typically come back as 1, less than 1, or blank (I think the lab doesn't report 0). Once I had a count of 2. If your animals are clean and you use basic sanitation practices, your milk will meet this standard with ease. I hand milk.

I think the count is a good indicator of the herd's living environment and milking practices.

Tricia Smith
Carlisle Farmstead Cheese
Carlisle MA

My understanding is that the coliform count will naturally increase in the same milk that shows coliform as non-detect or single-digits direct from the cow. The count will increase with additional handling - simply pouring it into another bucket and thereby aerating it, or pumping it through lines to a cooling tank, and then pouring it into containers, etc., with basically harmless effect since it was clean to start with. In other words, this rule is specifically designed to shut down a large operation with more handling, such as Mark's, especially if the reading is dictated as being taken at the final filling point, rather than at the beginning (cow teat).

Tricia,

I don't think the fact that under 10 coliforms per millileter is easy to achieve is the issue.

From a broader perspective, the powers that be continue to harass raw-milk producers for endpoints that have no bearing on the safety of the product.

This particular piece of legislation may not affect you now, but if they succeed this time, you may find the next one down the line has a negative impact on your business.

Kirsten --

I totally agree, the 10 coliform count isn't the real issue: but it is easy for a lot of producers to meet. Steve's observation about large producers is interesting -- I believe there must be a point where you just can't scale up raw milk for retail without affecting quality unacceptably. Does anyone have a sense of what safe bacteriological standards are?

I would like to produce and sell raw milk products (cheese) aged under 60 days. I believe that there's such a program in PA that the Amish community put together? (I always feel strange pasteurizing milk that tests raw with a SPC of 1,000.) Last month my dairy inspector said that MA was going to crack down on raw milk -- couldn't quite pry out on what front, but I think they may be aiming at non-licensed producers.

I want to push the state towards allowing more raw milk products. How can you be persuasive in this push unless you have some standards for what's a healthy herd and what's good raw milk quality? Advocating relaxed bacteriological standards isn't going to help this cause unless there's some strong backing science.

I think we need to hire some raw milk advocates into our regulatory departments.

"Maria, did the Dee Creek incident in Washington bother you at all? Did a red flag of concern go up? What is your opinion about the e-coli 0157:H7 incident from an unlicensed cow share program?"

Mary, it did not bother me. The farm is a good one and I occasionally get pastured beef from them. The last results I know of was that the official testing found ecoli, their own testing did not. I trusted their integrity then and I still do now. I have had numerous exchange with Summer, one of the farmers and have no reason to not trust her. They are now a licensed facility, by the way. Not sure why they went that route. I should ask.

Should farming and food be regulated this way? I don't know. I tend to be a black sheep, birthing unassisted and eating raw meat, so I say leave me be to make my own choices.

Raw milk in Oregon is largely a share system of unlicensed small dairies, I think. I don't like the share system though, too much 'stuff' around getting milk. I just buy my milk from the farm. I think a share system provides farmers with a loop in the law if they need one? It didn't help in WA however. I think they want to make cow share licensing a law, but this will be fought in court.

This sums it all nicely http://realmilk.com/washington-lessons-learned.html

Speaking of small farms, with one to 3 cows, I don't see how licensing would make a difference to ecoli. It is food, raw food, things happen. If everyone was as healthy as they should be then we could handle pathogens better.Any time I put food in my mouth I could potentially get sick, but nevertheless what I put in my mouth and that of my family should be my choice to make. I wouldn't feel reassured if a dairy were licensed or not I don't think. Contamination can happen. I need to make sure I know and trust the farmer.
Does this answer your question?

I live in downtown Sacramento and I'd like to attend the meeting on Monday, if I can. I work from 10am-1pm and 4:30-6:00pm, I'm free otherwise. Please tell me if I can attend and where and when to go.

It's absolutely insane to me that standards for raw milk can be so much more stringent than for pasteurized milk - Ruth Ann's number of 10 vs. 20,000 just boggles my mind. And pasteurized milk is devoid of anything beneficial that might combat the 20,000, while I feel quite sure that raw milk has plenty of beneficial bacteria to fight off the 10!

I've read elsewhere that CA is sort of a beacon of hope for raw milk advocates in other states, and I've been proud and grateful to live here. AB 1735 puts my freedom of choice in serious jeopardy, and frankly it pisses me off! For the first time in a long time, I've been moved to take action - letters went out yesterday to the governor and all members of the CA Assembly Agriculture Committee. And if I can be present on Monday as an angry constituent, I want to be there for sure.

By the way, I sent the Governor an e-mail, asking him if he had forgotten his heritage. Really, he was born in Graz, he was raised on the stuff.
Anyway you can find his page on line. I say write him.

I wrote to Mr. Schwarzenegger too!!!!

Yeah!

Maggie,
I mention it in my new post, but the Monday session in Sacramento is essentially a private meeting. Mark says he wanted it held in an auditorium holding 250 people, but that idea was vetoed. He's limited to coming with a party of four. But there will be other ways to demonstrate your opposition, I am certain.

Thanks for letting me know, David. I kind of figured that might be the case - the government mustn't let the people they represent in on these kinds of things...

I've tried making kefir from Organic Pastures milk and the results have always been yucky tasting. When I switched to milk from the smaller Claraville farm the kefir was delicious. Maybe Kirsten is on to something.

Excuse me I meant to say Tricia.

Forsooth,
I've had kefir come out much differently, based on my raw milk source. I suspect that one dairy's milk tends to have more butterfat, which likely helps the kefir quality, though I'm not certain. I think different breeds have different levels of fat. May have to do with milk freshness as well.