Wisconsin’s Attorney General has signaled his willingness to go ahead with the possibly provocative step of throwing dairy farmer Vernon Hershberger into jail.
In a package of documents sent to Hershberger, the Wisconsin Department of Justice included a letter to Judge Guy D. Reynolds, in which Assistant Attorney General Eric D. Defort complains about “what the State believes are violations of the Court ordered conditions of release.” He adds: “In view of the apparent violation of the Court’s orders, the State respectfully asks this Court to address the issue of bail at the next hearing.” The next hearing is next Friday, March 2, at which a demonstration in support of Hershberger is scheduled to take place.
When Hershberger was charged with four misdemeanors, and released on $500 bail, he signed an agreement in which he committed to “no manufacturing or processing of dairy products” and “no sale or distribution of milk produced on his dairy farm” without appropriate licenses. Moreover, there was to be “no impeding, obstruction (including the provision of false information) or interference with any Department of Agriculture, Trade, and Consumer Protection (DATCP) inspection.”
The agreement warned, “If you violate any of these conditions, your bond may be revoked, you may be returned to jail…” The four misdemeanors Hershberger has been charged with could land Hershberger in jail for up to three years, with more than $10,000 in fines.
Within weeks of signing the agreement, Hershberger had second thoughts, and in a courtroom statement to Judge Reynolds said he “would much rather spend the rest of my life behind bars or even die than to be found guilty of such a gross sin” in withholding foods from “its owners’ families.”
Then, two weeks ago, two agents from DATCP, accompanied by a Sauk County sheriff’s deputy, visited Hershberger’s farm in Loganville, WI. When he refused their request to inspect the farm, they departed. In a report on the visit, included with the documents sent to Hershberger, DATCP details Hershberger’s refusal in its narrative about the visit. The report also says there were signs the farm was operating as a retail establishment.
The DATCP account of the visit, written by inspector Jackie Owens, states that, “I observed a retail store with display shelves containing bulk dry foods, freezers, and walk-in cooler containing refrigerated foods including milk and milk products.” The distinction leads into a Catch-22 situation. If Hershberger had a “retail license,” he would be prohibited from selling raw dairy products, under Wisconsin law. Hershberger has thus avoided the retailer approach, setting up a private club, with food available only to nearly 200 members who pay an annual membership agreement. Hershberger leases his animals to those members.
She said that when she eventually reached Hershberger by phone, he refused her request to inspect the farm “because he did not have any licenses from the state…” That’s because his farm’s food is only available to nearly 200 members.
The Wisconsin AG’s swift move on the bail issue suggests Wisconsin officials have little concern about protests in support of Hershberger. A protest has long been planned for the March 2 hearing, which previously had been expected to be a routine hearing following up on the state’s misdemeanor charges against him. Now, with Hershberger facing jail, the demonstration scheduled in Baraboo, WI at 11 a.m. takes on greater importance. For more information, go to the Raw Milk Freedom Riders site, or the Support Vernon Hershberger Facebook site.
In Vernon, the government has found an easy target and they are taking full enjoyment at attacking Vernon.
I really do think that Vernon needs to seek a permit and fully comply with all regulations. To fight the establishment is to fight with both hands tied behind your back and the other side fully armed and crazed to finish you as an example for all.
In this battle….the smart and the strategic thinking teachers and market builders will survive. Those that fight…..end up like the RAWSOME three. Out of business, jailed, prosecuted, embattled with court challenges. That is not a win.
What does a win look like? How about a thriving market. A growing list of consumers. A farmer that is doing well and financially strong…..court battles end up benefiting mostly the lawyers. The outcomes rarely are predictable and are always life consuming and costly. Being right and winning are two different things. It is better to not fight and win…. than to fight and go bankrupt and lose it all.
There is a way forward. Get your permit…grow your market. The best pay-back is success….I strongly suggest that pay back is not gained through litigation. Trust me….I know this well.
Vernon….go produce the safest raw milk. Get your permit. Feed your people.
Adjective: (esp. of a defendant's behavior) Stubbornly or willfully disobedient to authority.
Synonyms: recalcitrant – refractory – obstinate – disobedient
Vern needs a break from the stress of the media maelstrom, anyway. He'll have a bit of a vacation … get to meet people he ordinarily wouldn't associate with … real criminals. Have time to reflect on the power of the tongue, ie talking his-self into gaol.
After he's taken away in handcuffs, we'll find out who's really dedicated to this Campaign for REAL MILK, and who are just bystanders… Of course, the folks from the Big City will be right there at 4 am the next day, doing the chores and revellling in it all. Won't they?
For those of us who are 'bloody-minded' ( as the Brits say) the fun part is splitting hairs as to what the Bail conditions are, precisely ; and also, the import of the original govt. orders. If they apply to the man, Vernon Hershberger, only, but don't catch those over whom he has direction – such as partners or his family – then no-one else is bound by them But watch out : one of the evil tactics employed by the Soviets was to hold someone hostage in order to leverage control of the conduct of others
Let's see what you guys are made of there in Wisconsin, eh? Get your gumboots ready and tune-up the pick-me-up truck. If you want your REAL MILK, you're going to have to unlimber the virtue which made America great = self-reliance. Get the paperwork in order, proving you own the cows, and have it literally on your person. The tyrants can't stop you from using and enjoying your own property.
I intended it as the kind of black humor that goes on, 'midst the fray. Vernon Hershberg is my sons' age. He is on his way to jail. Like a father, I'm trying to help him get psychologically ready.
If there's one thing the Court up-with-will-not-put, it's 'bringing the administration of Justice into disrepute' Out here in BC, such behaviour would earn at least a week in the slammer. Then, if the Defendant were to go back in and grovel, a judge would grumpily let him out on even stricter terms.
The choice Vernon Hershberge and his supporters are faced with. is ; do you want to dig through the mountain with a teaspoon, or would you rather go around the mountain? You can beat the pricks by out-manouevring them ; demonstrate that the bureaucracy is irrelevant ; keep the REAL MILK flowing by all means. That's how Michael Schmidt has prevailed in Canada.
In all seriousness ; get ready for the long-haul ; get a work party lined-up, make a schedule of who does waht, get the money issues figured out, and get out to the farm NOW, so Vernon can show you-all how he likes it done. It's not rocket science
Your solicitude for Vernon is admirable, however I think he has thought long and hard and clearly recognizes that there is no room for compromise on this issue. His strength and resolve to follow it through to the end rest with his conscience and faith in God.
TPTB are using the licensing process to unjustly inflict hardship and constraint, on a minority in order to achieve control over a basic need. Capitulating to such a process is a reflection of our willingness to compromise on and thus inevitably forego a fundamental right.
This hell bent desire to subjugate individuals is far from new and with something as rudimentary as a natural whole food if regulators succeed in forcefully manipulating our surrender to their rules and regulations then we might as well kiss what freedom and health we have left goodbye.
Ken
You are misunderstanding the Wisconsin situation. It's a Catch-22. Any retailer license Vernon might obtain would prohibit him from selling raw dairy products. He is making raw dairy products available only to members of a private food club, who lease his animals, and obtain farm output in exchange for paying boarding and other expenses. Wisconsin insists this is a retail outlet requiring a retailer license. Would be nice if he had the opportunity you describe to grow the market, but he doesn't.
David
One is misled not by what he does not know but by what he believes he knows.
Jean Jacques Rousseau, On Education [1762]
If people want to make a difference, they are going to have to go and learn how to do what Vernon is doing for them. Vernon is putting it all on the line. This is something so basic, so fundamentally human, that we cannot equivocate, or compromise on it. If we do not have the right to determine what we want to eat, we cannot begin to think we are free. The delusion will not hold up.
DATCP and those like them, cannot be allowed to simply roll over people like a tank. Vernon is kinda like that little Chinese guy in Tianemen (sp?) Square. He is standing in front of the tank of tyranny. Who will stand with him? Get organized and take care of yourselves and Vernon's family.
Why was a member of the Sauk county sheriff's office assisting a government agency (DATCP) when the sheriff has a constitutional duty to the people in the first place?
The 4th Amendment to the United States Constitution was added as part of the Bill of Rights on December 15, 1791. It deals with protecting people from the searching of their homes and private property without properly executed search warrants. The 4th Amendment reads like this:
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
How can this illegally obtained "evidence" even be allowed into court?
DATCP is currently investigating 9 or 10 other farms in Wisconsin that sell raw milk. DATCP operates as a fascist arm of the FDA in the "Dairy State" and has only just begun their war on raw milk. This fascist agency receives monetary assistance from the FDA to the tune of $80,000 a month in their war on raw milk.
Vernon has always produced safe milk. Safety is not the issue at all in this case. There is no license that he could even apply for with DATCP that would make his operation "legal".
We are living in historic times in Wisconsin where corrupted courts prevail along with an ever increasing police state and overzealous enforcement agents that go after farmers who haven't injured anyone.
Vernon is standing tall and staring tyranny in the eye. Come to Baraboo March 2nd and show your support for this very brave and stoic man.
This is the second time in recent memory that Mark has suggested this and the second time he has been corrected. The legal situation in WI is quite clear and well known, he ought to know better.
But it is his agenda that raw milk producers bend the knee to government. This is not freedom and some people are motivated by more than money and getting big. Regulation and freedom are mutual exclusive.
We all know this isn't about health and safety, its about control. And if the government can't succeed in stamping out raw milk it will fall back on plan B, regulatory control in the California model; which is a very effective way of keeping control of the farm production system. If the big dairy processors have to be sacrificed to maintain control of the food system they will be. But apologists for government regulation, regardless of what they do for a living, are no friend of freedom, food, farmers or eaters.
http://www.normeconomics.org/adaptive.html
This is the same neo-con Republican administration that threatened to call the national guard when tens of thousands of teachers and students occupied the state capital building in Madison, exactly a year ago now.
Wisconsin — once a proud bastion of progressive populism, and clean, open, and democratic government — today is completely in the hands of the evil forces of corporate monopoly.
This is the consequence of the last 30 years of "laissez-faire" supply-side economic policies, and unrestrained corporate power, folks. The Koch Brothers, Wisconsin Manufacture and Commerce, the Dairy Business Association, and other big business lobbys are in the drivers seat, and "We the people" have been kicked to the curb.
My heart goes out to Vernon! We will overcome this tyranny, in time. It will take much collective struggle, but "We the People" can forge true democracy, as we have many times in the past, in the face of tyranny.
Its been done, heres an example:
During WWII, in California, one farm owned by Americans of Japanese ancestry was fully maintained and operated by their neighboring farmers and the proceeds sent to the family. This continued until the family was released and returned to their farm and their community.
Mr. J. Ingvar Odegaard
This comment by Mark makes me absolutely sick to my stomach. Just comply and get the permit; as if it is as easy as signing a few papers, slap a little paint here and there, and off he goes. Never mind the fact that in Wisconsin it is IMPOSSIBLE to comply with the DATCP to sell raw milk legally, but what Mark is implying disgusts me the most. Do you think Vernon (and other farmers in the same situation) enjoys putting up this fight? Do you think farmers like him take pleasure in having the Ag depts come to their farms with police to raid the farm? Do you think they sit at the dinner table each night and laugh about the prospect of fines or jail time? So if it were that easy to just Get your permit. Feed your people, you then think he is just battling the establishment for fun? To be right? How much stress did your family go through a few months ago when you were shut down? Did you enjoy this time off? Was the stress worth it? You have a million $ worth of sales each month to take away some of this pain and keep you focused. For the farmers who barely make enough profit every month to keep their farm up and running, why do they CHOOSE to go through this 24/7 extreme stress? If its not the money or not the enjoyment, what is it? Could it possibly be for the people that WANT and NEED the milk? You consider yourself an advocate for raw milk but Vernons fight is far greater than any fight you have ever been through or ever will go through. If you were faced with jail time due to raw milk, would you continue to stand up for what you believe in? I would guess that OP would have a new owner and you would be somewhere on a beach sipping pasteurized milk.
As in any state, once you get their permit, you are now required to follow their rules. Wisconsin says you can only sell milk incidentally directly from the farm. What does this mean??!! Ask 10 different AG personnel and you will get 10 different answers. They can interpret this however they want. State of Minnesota says you can sell raw milk occasionally at the farm. Again what does this mean? One MN inspector says this means you have to bring your own container. Nowhere does it mention anything about your own container, but hey, how are you going to argue this? Their permit, their rules, they get to interpret it however they want.
The situation in Wisconsin is grim….it is digusting, unjust and it does deserve a wildly radical solution. What ever it takes.
Please accept my apologies.
I do think however, that in nearly all other cases, when raw milk has a slightly open door, be that cow shares, grade A, or what ever, that education and market building are the far better scenarios verses protest and the risk of life draining costly litigation. That does not mean that I like the system….I do not like the system at all. It is rotten to the core.
But…how is it changed? It is changed by the domination of the truth and dollar voting my a huge number of pissed off people that want change. How do you get a huge number of educated people that dollar vote??? You teach a huge number of people and you feed a huge number of people.
Litigation does not teach very many and feeds none.
Vernon I stand with you….you have few choices and you must follow your heart.
I respect you deeply.
Mark
The individual may stand upon his constitutional rights as a citizen. He is entitled to carry on his private business in his own way. His power to contract is unlimited. He owes no duty to the State or to his neighbors to divulge his business, or to open his doors to an investigation, so far as it may tend to criminate him. He owes no such duty to the State, since he receives nothing therefrom beyond the protection of his life and property. His rights are such as existed by the law of the land long antecedent to the organization of the State, and can only be taken from him by due process of law, and in accordance with the Constitution. Among his rights are a refusal to incriminate himself and the immunity of himself and his property from arrest or seizure except under a warrant of the law. He owes nothing to the public so long as he does not trespass upon their rights.
Upon the other hand, the corporation is a creature of the State. It is presumed to be incorporated for the benefit of the public. It receives certain special privileges and franchises, and holds them subject to the laws of the State and the limitations of its charter. Its powers are limited by law. It can make no contract not authorized by its charter. Its rights to act as a corporation are only preserved to it so long as it obeys the laws of its creation. There is a reserved right in the legislature to investigate its contracts and find out whether it has exceeded its powers. It would be a strange anomaly to hold that a State, having chartered a corporation to make use of certain franchises, could not, in the exercise of its sovereignty, inquire how these franchises had been employed, and whether they had been abused, and demand the production of the corporate books and papers for that purpose. The defense amounts to this: that an officer of a corporation which is charged with a criminal violation of the statute may plead the criminality of such corporation as a refusal to produce its books. To state this proposition is to answer it. While an individual may lawfully refuse to answer incriminating questions unless protected by an immunity statute, it does not follow that a corporation, vested with special privileges and franchises, may refuse to show its hand when charged with an abuse of such privileges.
As an act of the WI legislature the following defines certain terms;
In WI Statute 19.42(14) annotation Law Revision Committee Note, 1983: This bill establishes consistency in the usage of the terms "person", "individual" and "organization" in the code of ethics for state public officials. The term "person" is the broadest of these terms, and refers to any legal entity. The use of the term "person" in the bill is consistent with the definition of the word in s. 990.01 (26), stats., which provides that "person" includes all partnerships, associations and bodies politic or corporate". The term "organization" is narrower, and is defined in s. 19.42 (11), stats., as "any corporation, partnership, proprietorship, firm, enterprise, franchise, association, trust or other legal entity other than an individual or body politic". "Individual", although not specifically defined in the current statutes or in this bill, is used consistently in this bill to refer to natural persons.
As such the actions of WI DATCP against Vernon are predicated upon DATCP having expanded an unambiguous statute, which exclusive of individual, to include individual in ATCP code as a person. Although an administrative agency may by manifest intent of the legislature be granted broad ranging authority in its rule making as applied to the public good, the body of law states that statutes, to be valid, must not deny to the individuals affected thereby due process of law, nor may they be violative of any other constitutional requirement or inhibition. Such as; DATCPs statutory authority to conduct warrantless entry, and subject individuals to self incrimination.
Vernons battle will not be won in any court in wisconSin as such, and he is well aware of this, his incarceration would add a Fifth amendment takings claim to his standing, as he is conducting himself according to rule of law;
The privilege against self-incrimination is neither accorded to the passive resistant, nor to the person who is ignorant of his rights, nor to one indifferent thereto. It is a fighting clause. It's benefits can be retained only by sustained combat. It cannot be claimed by attorney or solicitor. It is valid only when insisted upon by a belligerant claimant in person." McAlister vs. Henkel, 201 U.S. 90, 26 S.Ct. 385, 50 L. Ed. 671; Commonwealth vs. Shaw, 4 Cush. 594, 50 Am.Dec. 813; Orum vs. State, 38 Ohio App. 171, 175 N.E. 876. The one who is persuaded by honeyed words or moral suasion to testify or produce documents rather than make a last ditch stand, simply loses the protection. . . . He must refuse to answer or produce. United States v. Johnson, 76 F. Supp. 538, 539 (D. Pa. 1947)
The only question that remains is whether to choose Marks path, existing as a slave to the state, safe and secure, and years from now, lying in your bed dying, would you not give up every day from this day to that day, to come back here and stand with Vernon and others of like kind, in defiance of government tyranny and its corporate shills, and say to them THAT YOU WILL TAKE OUR LIVES AND FREEDOM , NO MORE.
WHAT SAY YOU?
The individual may stand upon his constitutional rights as a citizen. He is entitled to carry on his private business in his own way. His power to contract is unlimited. He owes no duty to the State or to his neighbors to divulge his business, or to open his doors to an investigation, so far as it may tend to criminate him. He owes no such duty to the State, since he receives nothing therefrom beyond the protection of his life and property. His rights are such as existed by the law of the land long antecedent to the organization of the State, and can only be taken from him by due process of law, and in accordance with the Constitution. Among his rights are a refusal to incriminate himself and the immunity of himself and his property from arrest or seizure except under a warrant of the law. He owes nothing to the public so long as he does not trespass upon their rights.
Upon the other hand, the corporation is a creature of the State. It is presumed to be incorporated for the benefit of the public. It receives certain special privileges and franchises, and holds them subject to the laws of the State and the limitations of its charter. Its powers are limited by law. It can make no contract not authorized by its charter. Its rights to act as a corporation are only preserved to it so long as it obeys the laws of its creation. There is a reserved right in the legislature to investigate its contracts and find out whether it has exceeded its powers. It would be a strange anomaly to hold that a State, having chartered a corporation to make use of certain franchises, could not, in the exercise of its sovereignty, inquire how these franchises had been employed, and whether they had been abused, and demand the production of the corporate books and papers for that purpose. The defense amounts to this: that an officer of a corporation which is charged with a criminal violation of the statute may plead the criminality of such corporation as a refusal to produce its books. To state this proposition is to answer it. While an individual may lawfully refuse to answer incriminating questions unless protected by an immunity statute, it does not follow that a corporation, vested with special privileges and franchises, may refuse to show its hand when charged with an abuse of such privileges.
This was written during Washington's retreat across the Delaware and by his order was read to his dispirited and suffering soldiers. The opening sentence was adopted as the watchword of the movement to Trenton: "These are the times that try men's souls: The summer soldier and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis shrink from the service of his country; but he that stands it NOW, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman."
my grandfather on me mither's side was a direct descendant of the people you go on about … he used to say "talk is cheap but whiskey costs money".
Come on up to the LawCourts on New Westminster BC on March 27th 2012 and see how it really goes … very different than all your Holly-wood blather
Will is wrong. Vernon is operating a corporation, and is operating in the realm of commerce. If Vernon's goal was to operate entirely outside of the realm of commerce, he would need to completely abolish the use of money and private property in his raw milk dealings, and stop selling his milk to "the English" and others who do not share his religious beliefs.
However, I think that there is justification for raw milk entering commerce. It has been done succesfully in California, and I believe it can be done succesfully in Wisconsin. For this reason, I fully support Vernon seeking a jury nullification of Wisconsin's compulsary pasteurization laws.
Vernon is taking a brave stance. However, I think that it is very unforuntate that capitalist/propertarian shills (who are tools of the Koch brothers political party — the Libertarian Party) are co-opting his cause for reactionary ends. Hopefully us Wisconsinites can fight back against this KOCH evil which is invading our state.
I can see that you are quoting my favorite American revolutionary — Thomas Paine.
Paine was a champion for equality and human freedom — a revolutionary and socialist before it was named as such. Paine's pamphlet "Agrarian Justice" laid the foundations for Social Security, Progressive Income Taxes, and Social Justice. He is the true instigator of the American Revolution.
Keep up the good work!
My dear home state of Wisconsin, we must rise up and fight for our basic, God given rights. Take the kids out of school, take off work and go!
Children are wonderful that way, for asking the seemingly naive questions that in actuality get to the heart of the matter in opening our minds to reality.
Our opponents like to justify their repression with the image of protecting children from dangerous foods. In the process, they close their minds to the reality that they are not only depriving families of essential foods, but creating a society driven heavily by ignorance and fear over knowledge and community.
Thank you for sharing your family's decision-making process for deciding to attend the rally in support of Vernon Hershberger on Friday. You are setting a wonderful example for your children, an example that values freedom and justice over fear and repression.
David
We lived in Munich, Germany when Beirut was bombed. Our housing area was opened to the public and we were under protection guard from the Germans and the American military. My 7-8 yr old son and his friends were not allowed to play cops&robbers outside with their toy guns as the Politizi told them they may be mistaken for real guns and may be shot. We got hate propaganda in our German mailbox, we had police (military and german) come through our buildings in the middle of the night because of bomb threats, you checked under your car for suspicious things (car bombs were popular back then). German police patroled the area with uzi type guns….Back then kids were not allowed at Dachau concentration camp (This is what the base had told us), I never saw kids when visiting there and we went many times with visitors from the states. (I believe we must learn from history or we will repeat it).
My kids saw the pamphlets from Dachau, they saw bombed out areas (from WWII). I believe if they ask a question, they are old enough to learn the truth. In Colorado, I took our slumlord to court and brought my kids, they got to see the court system in action.
Should you be in the direction of pepper spray, do not rub your eyes or skin (that prolongs the effect)….just blink continuously as your eyes water….contact lens wetting solution may help the eyes.
Less than a decade ago, I was one of them. I am so thankful to those who pointed me to whole, nutritious, unprocessed food.
See you at the rally!
Vernon has exercised his Right and power to contract and that contract is without the State of Wisconsin. The State of Wisconsin is not a party to the contract. Therefor the State of Wisconsin has absolutely no business and no Lawful claims involving that contract. In addition, Vernon does not have another contract with the State of Wisconsin whereby he is obligated to performance of any kind. If opinions, assessments, judgements, criticisms and the like are expressed without regards to the context of contract and especially in ergards to this particular contract then they are all missing the mark!
The context is a private contract! Consider that!
When the legislative hearings are held and testimonies are heard….guess what? behind the scenes, big dairy is whoring themselves with big money, the FDA and big influence with the governor to assure a veto.
Passing laws to change raw milk reality is very tough. Litigation will be just as hard. You are fighting Land-o-lakes, Deans Foods, …..they do not lie down easily. They fight dirty and smart.
Vernon is standing before the Teniamen ( Sp ) Square Tank . He needs us all.
There are many roads to raw milk freedom. Internet pressure from 75000 people in CA that can access readily available raw milk provided by this slave….has changed the culture of America. Compliance ( enslavement ) will evolve raw milk and given time this slave will celebrate the shackles being turned into bells of freedom.
Private contracts are certainly subject to the authority of the state… indeed, contracts would be meaningless and unenforcible without state authority. A contract is a commercial agreement, and is subject to the laws of commerce.
This does not mean I am against Vernon Hershberger's cause. I think that Wisconsin's compulsary pastuerization laws should be nullfied by jury, starting with Vernon's case. The private contract has nothing to do with it. It is just common sense. We are America's Dairyland.
The state is instigating an immoral and civil wrong through its use of civil/statute law. All governments are legally bound by contract, as expressed under common law and government at all levels, is not above the law despite there action to the contrary.
I cannot speak for Vernon, however I do agree with this statement from the following excellent article, our connection to God is personal and individual and not subject to the whims of a self-appointed intermediary such as Church or State.
Just as religion is man's feeble attempt to give meaning and control in his life so it is with other human endeavors, including the various political movements.
http://common-law.net/christian.html
If individuals do not have property rights, then our most basic civil freedoms are at jeopardy. The Soviet Unions socialist economy abolished citizens property rights and in so doing people could not own printing presses or assembly halls or even their own home. How can there be freedom of expression, worship or privacy under such circumstances?
I find politics and the shenanigans associated with it to be exceedingly frustrating. There does not seem to be any lasting middle ground since we tend to gravitate from one radical self-centered extreme to the next.
Ken
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/02/25/legal-system-rules-antidepressants-cause-kids-to-kill.aspx?e_cid=20120225_DNL_art_1
Ken
My heart, soul and keyboard are with you, even if I can not be present.
In both politics and economics, its the numbers that count. And, if you notice – those same numbers make the laws.
If we don't have the cash to fight the Deans and their ilk – we DO have the bodies and we have the telephone, internet, pen and pencil to do it with.
Much better, if a lot slower, than pitchforks and torches. (Still…. whatever WORKS….)
OK .. I'll give you an example of what goes on in the playground of the Black Robe cult
on Oct 31 1990 I was in the Provincial Court of BC, before Judge V Taggert, suing the BC Coalition of Abortion Clinics, for their members beating me up and breaking my glasses, when I attended a meeting they'd put on in a public place.
Their lawyer was arguing for dismissal, on the ground that the Co-alition was not a Person existing in law, therefore could not be sued …
Judge Taggert asked "does this group have a bank account?
the shyster bald-facedly lied – 'he didn't know" ( this, from the guy who'd incorporated them! )
application of the above to the Hershberger situation is = to whom are cheques made out, when someone purchase MILK from the store? Does that person or legal entity on the receiving end of that transaction have a bank account? If so, whose names are signatories to that account? You can be sure the Prosecutor already knows the answer to these questions
even to have a bank account as a portal in order to access the Babylonian system, puts that account-holder into commerce. Daniel Webster knew what he was talking about when he called paper currency "the Devil's Money" Vernon Hershberger has one foot on the dock and one foot on the ship, and that ship, as it slowly but surely drifts into deep water
America is on a bi-metalic standard to this day, de jure. The constitutional US $ is defined in terms of grains of silver, then the 50 $ gold coin references that base. Dealing in one's private property in the form of REAL MONEY is one of the remedies to get out of the trouble with the Soviet apparatchiks, by which I mean the FDA
The Soviet Union had private property. Its just that all the significant capital was the private property of the bureaucratic ruling class. Just as in today's American corporate capitalism, all the significant capital is the private property of a corporate ruling class.
We must be specific when we discuss the issue of property, and what type of property we are talking about. Personal possessions are one form of property, and deserve protections as a natural right. However, commercial forms of property (such as a corporation) are a completely different thing and are outgrowths of divisions of labor, society, government, and complex economies of scale. To suggest that corporations should not be subject to any public oversight is to accept a form of tyranny as bad or worse than any suffered in a totalitarian regime.
This movement continues allows itself to be misled by faulty logic and intellectual dishonesty. Any lawyer can tell you that contractual agreements cannot override the statutory law or case law. The act of signing a contract in itself relies upon a vast body of laws and legal precedents, and assumes the presence of a governmental authority to enforce the contract if one side does not uphold its agreement.
If the goal is to place the raw milk club completely outside of the public sphere, that is one thing, but that is not what Vernon has actually done here. A true "private club" would need to be a sincere "intimate association" and operate in a completely non-commercial manner. (To Barney — There is a considerable body of case law around this "private club" issue, if you care to look it up…)
As I said… I support Vernon, we just need to take off the rose-colored glasses here. The goal we are seeking is a jury nullification of Wisconsin's compulsory pasteurization statutes, NOT a blanket endorsement of runaway corporate greed and tyranny.
Before our white brothers arrived to make us civilized men, we didnt have any kind of prison.
Because of this, we had no delinquents.
Without a prison, there can be no delinquents.
We had no locks nor keys and therefore among us there were no thieves.
When someone was so poor that he couldnt afford a horse, a tent or a blanket, he would, in that case, receive it all as a gift.
We were too uncivilized to give great importance to private property.
We didnt know any kind of money and consequently, the value of a human being was not determined by his wealth.
We had no written laws laid down, no lawyers, no politicians, therefore we were not able to cheat and swindle one another.
We were really in bad shape before the white men arrived and I dont know how to explain how we were able to manage without these fundamental things that (so they tell us) are so necessary for a civilized society.
John (Fire) Lame Deer
Pick your number….we have done several calculations to estimate our number of customers. It ranges between 60,000 and 100,000 people each week. If you believe the FDA numbers, we are feeding about a million people ( the FDA says 3% of CA consumers drink raw milk ).
Our herd has grown to 440 milking. Our heifer replacement program has been very successful. We are producing about 2500 gallons of milk per day and we are still short.
The truth of raw milk is spreading…perhaps even faster now that the CDC and FDA have been telling lies and smart people get pissed off when they are lied too.
RAWMI will be releasing it's first draft of its common standards for the executive board review and feedback from the 50 registered RAWMI members that have identified themselves as raw milk dairymen. After 45 days of seeking feedback and suggestions….they will be published and farmer training webinars will begin.
Pattie Chelseth has agreed to be our example raw dairy farmer. She is a CA Cow Share and will have her testing data and farm food safety plan displayed at RAWMI on her profile page.
RAWMI has taken a go slow…go deliberately…. methodical process. Seems to be working great.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/daily/march/12/cahokia.htm
I am not attempting to justify the horrible decimation of the Native Americans by the Europeans who took their land, dignity, and very lives, We are all molded from the same clump of clay, Native American also shared many of he same vices as their foreign invaders. They to engaged in vicious battles amongst themselves in order gain or maintain control over land and resources. The gentler option to the victims of such battles was death to the men and slavery to the women and children.
Ken
at chapter five.
In The Spirit!